Kara Swisher · 27:48
Men of congress, I'm say the ladies, but, you know, representative Katie Porter, AOC asking Zuckerberg, stuff at the, at the at the at the event. I just have to say it's a huge win. He really got owned by, representative Ocasio and representative Porter. Let's play, play each of them.
Speaker · 28:08
Do you see a potential problem here with a complete lack of fact checking on political advertisements?
Guest · 28:14
Well, congresswoman, I think lying is bad. And I think if you were to run an ad that had a lie, that would be bad. That's different from it being... From it... From... For in our position, the right thing to do to prevent your constituents or people in an election from seeing that you had lied.
Speaker · 28:33
So we can... So you won't take down lies or you will take down lies? I think it's just a pretty simple yes or no.
Kara Swisher · 28:40
And now here's a representative Katie Porter asking Zuckerberg if he would spend one hour a week moderating content on Facebook.
Speaker · 28:45
Would you be willing to commit to spending one hour a day for the next year watching these videos and acting as a content monitor and only accessing the same benefits available to your workers?
Guest · 29:01
Congresswoman, we we work hard to
Speaker · 29:03
make sure that we give good benefits to all the folks who are
Speaker · 29:06
doing it. Mister Zuckerberg, reclining my time. I would appreciate a yes or a no. Would you be willing to act as a content monitor? Come... To have that life experience.
Guest · 29:15
I'm not sure that it would
Speaker · 29:16
best serve our community for me to spend that much...
Speaker · 29:19
Reclaiming my time, mister Zuckerberg.
Kara Swisher · 29:22
So I think this was just... These were really great questions. I think they they zoned in very quickly, zeroed in, excuse me, on on the problems, and he is unable to answer it. I found him incredibly unprepared for this for this hearing because I think he thought it was gonna be about Libra, which he couldn't talk about, and he was gonna sail out of there like last time, and he could, you know, he he could... He he... These people were prepared and ready to rumble, and I thought it was great.
Scott Galloway · 29:46
Yeah. And here's the thing. It wasn't that he did poorly, it's that there is no right answer for doing something that is blatantly wrong. And that is their argument is that by allowing people to post false advertisements with misinformation, and misinformation has ramifications. That they are... Their argument is they're creating discourse, and that's just a ridiculous argument. What they're creating is discourse that is unproductive, false, misleading, and divisive. And there's just... It's indefensible given their history that they would not... And she absolutely kinda saw this Both
Kara Swisher · 30:25
of them.
Scott Galloway · 30:25
Saw this this open gashing wound of hypocrisy and inconsistency. And here's the bottom line. Every decision, every narrative, every talking point, we wanna give people voice, we wanna create discourse, is created by a corporate communications department of 750 people with one objective, and that is say whatever we need to say such that we can continue to cash anybody's check. That's all it is. Every... And by the way, the other interview that got kinda overshadowed by this was Katie Couric's interview of Sheryl Sandberg. But every... That where she...
Kara Swisher · 31:01
You make that your win then.
Scott Galloway · 31:02
Well, promoted she promoted... Sheryl Sandberg promoted this junk science that said when people go on Facebook, they end up being exposed more to both sides. The 24% of the content they see is from the both sides. That is such junk science. Every piece of academic research shows the more time you spend on Facebook, the more polarized you get, more you enter into your own filter bubble even if it's false information and the algorithms recognize you don't want discourse, that we're tribal, that you wanna go to one pole or the other such you can get angrier and angrier and it's terrible for society. And in my win, it's literally as if you kinda read my mind, we have one one mind on this. My win was or is representative of Maxine Waters, the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, and also a shout out to the ranking member Patrick McHenry from North Carolina. But I thought the hearing was exactly what it was supposed to be. I thought it was respectful. I thought... It's interesting. The Republicans kinda took the side of, you know, the idolatry of innovators. Leave him alone. He's an innovator. Although most of them can't actually describe what innovation is. There's... In my opinion, there needs to be more innovation at the Department of Justice and and the FTC. But... And I thought I thought these these... Like you said, this this hearing would do exactly what it was supposed to do. And, also Exactly. I thought I thought Mark Zuckerberg did as good a job as he could given that he has to lie and he has to support a corrupt organization.
Kara Swisher · 32:20
I I do not... I I think he... I... Yes. He did as good as he could, but the fact of the matter is these these people own. He couldn't answer. That's exactly what I'm... I have a column coming out right, like, now in the in the New York Times talking about they think in a binary term, which is they cannot... That that... That's why that speech last week drove me so crazy that he did at Georgetown. It was, either free speech or China Right. Or free speech or chaos. And I'm like, they're... It's so complex. And what they did, which which I think Porter did when she was talking about content moderators, AOC, which... When she was talking about, ads, Maxime Waters, any of them. And it was fascinating. It was all three women doing most of the really hard questions. They were pointing out how complex this is. And the same thing last week with Bernice King, the daughter of Martin Luther King. Mark used a a quote by Martin Luther King in in his speech, and she was like, oh, no, my friend. That is not what my father said, and that is not what he meant, and he was very hurt by disinformation from other politicians. So I think it's... The complexity is what's hard for these people, making it... Because binary is the way they like. Reductive and twitchy is what they like. And so, you know, that's what's hard here is that it is complex, and and they have been hiding in the complexity by saying, well, they could go this way. It could go that way when you can just make simple decisions and and and and just pick a pick a lane, like, and this is the way we're gonna be. And so that's what they were pointing out. I thought that was great.
Scott Galloway · 33:41
Yeah. I thought it was I thought it was... So that... This feeds right into my fail.
Kara Swisher · 33:45
What is your... That's your fail.
Scott Galloway · 33:46
What is your... Just wanna highlight. We always talk about Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg, but this company has a board of directors. So Peggy Alford recently joined, I believe, the board of directors. So Peggy, your your refusal or your continued enabling of these... Of this company's perversion of our democracy that you have clearly benefited from. I see above you're on the board of Facebook. Marc Andreessen you are in fact attacking or ripping at the fabric of our society by enabling these two's. Ken Chenal who I know and I think is a very decent man. Ken, I'm incredibly disappointed that you have not done anything to encourage these people and the organization to take this cycle off given the fact that we already see a perversion and damage of our democracy happening again. Susan Desmond Hellman, what are you thinking Susan? Not ref... Or enabling or continuing to be a co conspirator in the slow erosion of our democracy by enabling these two to continue to take money for false ads? Peter Thiel, I don't even know what to say to Peter, You know, par for the course here. Jeffrey Zinsk, I don't know who you are, Jeffrey, but you are on the board of a company. Former Obama. Former Obama person. Way to go, folks. You are in fact going to... This is... We know what's gonna happen. It's already happening. They're gonna find out that either voter suppression or misleading ads, and what do you know, it was a net negative for what is what is a key component of our society that all of you have benefited from, and that a safe and fair elections. We know it's not going to go well. And rather than sitting out this election cycle, you've decided to cash that check so you can get a little bit richer. And I think all of these people are absolutely complicit in what is one of the most outrageous infractions of justice, something that at some point in retrospect will be seen as a crime by sitting on your hands. And then they all throw up their arms and say, well, we couldn't do anything. Why? Because Mark Zuckerberg had supervoting shares. All it takes is one of you to say, I am leaving the board unless we decide to not take political action....
Kara Swisher · 35:47
Happened. They they... What they do is they go quiet. I think Renee Hastings and Erskine Bowles...
Scott Galloway · 35:51
Just laughed.
Kara Swisher · 35:52
I think... I think what they do is they try to do this, and we gotta then wrap up for for another ad and then get back with predictions. But what they try to do, and I just did an interview with Gary Cohen, is, like, you don't know what was said in the room. I didn't say something I was talking to him about Charlottesville. And he's like, I... Maybe, hypothetically, I said something in another private room. And I'm sort of like, I'm done with private rooms, like saying... Being angry at Mark Zuckerberg in a private room. I think public, is the way to go. I... Anyway, we have to take a break. We'll be back after this with predictions.
[Ad break]
Kara Swisher · 37:34
Hi, everyone. This is Kara Swisher.
Scott Galloway · 37:36
And I'm Scott Galloway.
Kara Swisher · 37:37
And we wanna tell you about Pivot, our twice weekly podcast.
Scott Galloway · 37:41
That's right, Kara. What a thrill. It's a chance for us to break down all the big things happening in tech, business, and politics.
Kara Swisher · 37:47
Yes. And I keep you in check so people can make it through each episode, whether it's digging into constant changes in the world of AI and social media or trying to keep up with whatever the fuck Elon is doing. We're here to
Speaker · 37:57
give you our take on all of that.
Scott Galloway · 37:58
Every Tuesday and Friday morning, we drop a new episode about some of the major stories of the moment.
Kara Swisher · 38:04
And Scott is a prediction machine gazing into his crystal ball to tell you about where it's all heading.
Scott Galloway · 38:09
That's right.
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 38:10
So if that sounds like a good time for you, especially mister that's right, you can follow us on your favorite podcast app to get new episodes every week. Okay. We're back. Let's get to predictions, Scott. Obviously, you predicted a whole lot about WeWork. What else have you got? What have you done for us lately, Scott?
Scott Galloway · 38:33
Yeah. Other than
Kara Swisher · 38:34
You know, now that you have this vaunted position as a predictor.
Scott Galloway · 38:37
Other than be wrong.
Kara Swisher · 38:38
But... Yeah. You you write more than wrong, but go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 38:41
So... Yeah. The the... I'm doubling down. You have, you have 50 points of share between, Bernie Sanders and, Joe Biden. And I think that that is all gonna go somewhere else in the next sixty days. So I'm doubling down. I I think in the next thirty days, I don't know if it's gonna be... It'll probably be Warren, but I think there's a decent chance that the front runner in the Democratic primary is gonna be a name we're not talking about a lot. And I said the same thing in our our podcast last week, but earlier this week. But I think mayor Pete is about to surge and or Yep. We're gonna have a new entrant. I mean, Hillary Clinton's talking about getting back in the race, mayor Bloomberg or an unknown. But this thing is a lot more wide open than than than people think because the reality is a lot of us watch the democratic debates, and we just sorta go, meh. It's just... It's... You know, there's a lot of
Kara Swisher · 39:39
So who of of those people? You discussed this last week, though. Who... I want you a a person. I want a prediction. Which of the... Who's gonna enter if you had to pick one? And I will... Shall pick one, we'll see who's correct.
Scott Galloway · 39:50
So the the I'm I'm not... I'm... The the the reality is I don't know. I I... I'm not willing to make
Kara Swisher · 39:57
a prediction. An That's answer. Okay. But I need you to make one.
Scott Galloway · 40:00
Prediction my prediction is the the biggest winner over the next thirty days is gonna be Mayor Pete.
Kara Swisher · 40:05
Okay. And then who would enter if you had to pick?
Scott Galloway · 40:08
I... So I'm going with other. I don't think I don't think I don't think... I think Hillary, I think the secretary Clinton, I I think she's gonna get...
[Ad break]
Scott Galloway · 40:17
Oh, gosh. Or, you know, someone even said Al Gore. I Yeah. I wanna flip this to you. You're you're obviously pregnant.
Kara Swisher · 40:23
I like big.
Scott Galloway · 40:23
You're pregnant with a prediction.
Kara Swisher · 40:26
Pregnant with a predict... I I have told you... I already made mine with Bloomberg, but I think he's gonna choke. He's a choker.
Scott Galloway · 40:32
You... But when you say choker, you mean somebody decides not to do it. Right?
Kara Swisher · 40:35
Yeah. He die. He, like, mulls, mulls, mulls. He does polls, and then he doesn't do it. Yeah. He... He's a
Scott Galloway · 40:41
choker. Don't know if it's a choker to be worth $60,000,000,000, be 77, spend half your year in London, and decide, you know what? I don't need this shit.
Kara Swisher · 40:47
But he was mayor of New York. He loved it. It's the best time of his life. Yeah. He'd have a great time to be president.
Scott Galloway · 40:52
I hope you're right.
Kara Swisher · 40:52
He'd a great time.
Scott Galloway · 40:53
But but
Kara Swisher · 40:54
He's not gonna
Scott Galloway · 40:54
be president of United Someone's gonna... The new person's gonna come in.
Kara Swisher · 40:58
Nobody. I think none of the... I think you're wrong, and I think nobody is. I think this is the field this is this is the field we have. And so I think I think Biden is gonna have a surge. That's what I think.
Scott Galloway · 41:08
Do you think Biden's gonna have a surge?
Speaker · 41:11
Biden. I'm going with a Biden surge. Yes.
Scott Galloway · 41:13
Yeah. That's just because, lucky, your mom likes Joe. Right?
Kara Swisher · 41:17
No. No. I just have a feeling that Biden's gonna have a surge. That's all I'm saying.
Scott Galloway · 41:20
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we should revisit that because I think he's gonna give up a lot of share. You think he's gonna gain share. So we should time stamp stamp that.
Kara Swisher · 41:27
I think it's gonna be Biden Klobuchar. Thank you.
Scott Galloway · 41:30
Wow. Amy, senator Klobuchar. There you go.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 41:34
Okay. We're gonna go. We gotta go. I'm getting the look from the producers. Oh, I just wanna open my mouth for pivot minute. At voxmedia.com, and we're hiring a new producer for pivot and you don't have to interview with Scott. That's the most important part
Scott Galloway · 41:49
that. Qualified.
Kara Swisher · 41:49
Please please apply at voxmedia.com/careers if you think you're the right person to join this crazy team. There's all kinds of fun. We are a fun gang, and Scott really is a quiet, introspective person.
Scott Galloway · 42:03
Chipotle you can eat.
Kara Swisher · 42:04
Stage. All the Chipotle you can eat. Anyway, Scott, please read the credits.
Scott Galloway · 42:09
Oh, we have credits. There's other people involved in this. Today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis and Eric Johnson. Erica Anderson is Pivot's executive producer. Thanks also to Rebecca Castro, Drew Burrows, and Nishat Kerouwah. Make sure you subscribe subscribe to to the the show on Apple Podcasts. And if you like this week's episode, leave us a review. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.
