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Scott Galloway · 24:29
Look, the movie industry, to be fair, some of the best performing stocks in media are actually theater stocks. Cinemark and IMAX are up. Theaters at 4045% respectively in the last twelve months. The theater business is becoming like airlines. There's Southwest and JetBlue, which is streaming. Netflix serves you content for 30¢ an hour. That's an incredible deal. And then there's Emirates and Qatar Airlines in Singapore. That's IMAX. That's an incredible experience. The guys in the middle, like AMC or Delta United, are getting crushed. So people are willing to spend 20 or 30 or $40 to go to IMAX or have a really, like, I love iPic, although that just went bankrupt. But they want an experience, or they just want 30¢ an hour and reasonably good content. But it... The other... I mean, the other biggest trend culturally right now is IRL coming out of COVID. People probably lost somebody. People do have disposable income. The economy's been fairly strong, and people want to get out and touch grass, and I think they're just having a really healthy gag reflex Yeah, over
Kara Swisher · 25:36
I do think there's a gag reflex over social media and everything else. It's interesting Gary Vaynerchuk here now says analog is in versus, which I was like, no shit, Sherlock. It's really in. But the idea that this pushing away, I have long thought that social media is going to decline rather precipitously, especially among young people. And become more of a, know, because you're starting to see tech companies like Google just invested in A24, which I thought was in, everyone lost their minds in Hollywood. They thought they were gonna pull their data. I think they're using it to try to figure out how to do better story boarding, how to use AI, and how to figure out how to change the movie making process, which isn't such a bad idea to use those tools. Although Hollywood does have a gag reflex to all of these things in favor of these in real life cinema experiences.
Scott Galloway · 26:27
Yeah, think both can be true because if you look at... I don't understand. People go on Instagram to find out about a yogurt store they'll spend forty minutes in line for. So that's a combination of the two things. The downside of the IRL trend is the following, and that is... I mean, there's a couple of things. You're about to see tables in Mykonos and Ibiza increase 40, 50% in price this summer, because there's about to be 12,000 new millionaires in the Bay Area through Anthropic, SpaceX, and OpenAI. And if you're a 36 year old who got a CS degree from Carnegie Mellon, quite frankly haven't had... You know, you weren't... Didn't have the most social capital in high school, quite frankly, and you wake up and you've been broke and you've been paying your student loans, and you wake up after the IPO and you're worth $11,000,000, you're not going to Disneyland. You're going to Ibiza and you're seeing black coffee. The flush of douchebag money about to roll over to roll over Europe this summer is gonna be just frightening. And the other thing that's really kind of sad about this is the reason why these concerts and these music festivals can charge $2.03, $5 for VIP tickets is because twenty and thirty somethings... When I was 20 and 30, you know what I was doing with all my money? I was saving for a house. And I worry that twenty and thirty somethings have just stopped saving for a house. They've just given up. They're like, okay. We are not gonna save $200 for a house. Houses are 2,000,000... Starter homes are $2,000,000.
Kara Swisher · 27:58
Yeah. California. I'm
Scott Galloway · 27:58
going to Coachella.
Kara Swisher · 28:00
The smaller houses are 1,000,000. Yeah, your point being.
Scott Galloway · 28:04
Oh, well these are just fascinating trends about in real life, Kara.
Kara Swisher · 28:08
Alright, okay. In any case, what does that mean? Because one of the You know,
Scott Galloway · 28:12
I expose myself to you emotionally, and you jab.
Kara Swisher · 28:14
Yes. I do. You jab. I was still on douchebags with money in Ibiza, because you're the only person I know that goes to Ibiza. But he's having a fantasy moment.
Scott Galloway · 28:27
I pay for everything.
Speaker · 28:28
What do you say to like a reporter?
Scott Galloway · 28:29
I love drugs. I love alcohol.
Kara Swisher · 28:31
Get We're questions from you all
Speaker · 28:32
in the future.
Scott Galloway · 28:32
Who would wanna roll with me in Ibiza? Seriously. That's right. Meet you there.
Kara Swisher · 28:38
Yeah. I absolutely would not. So...
Scott Galloway · 28:42
She literally texted me like, where are you?
Kara Swisher · 28:44
Where are you? What are you doing?
Scott Galloway · 28:45
No. Where are you?
Kara Swisher · 28:46
No. What are you doing? No. I said, I'm downstairs talking to Paris Hilton. I will not be coming upstairs
Speaker · 28:50
to talk to you.
Kara Swisher · 28:54
He just made a Paris Hilton joke that was gross. Just try not to ignore it. So...
Scott Galloway · 28:58
Seen that movie 10, 12 times.
Kara Swisher · 28:59
Okay. Alright. In any case, is there... I think a lot of the tech companies really are moving into media, not necessarily in the nefarious ways that they are also moving into media. But Instagram wants a spot in your streaming lineup. The app is testing horizontal video, long form content, episodic series, which I think is really interesting. I just met with some Instagram people recently. They're also reaching out to creators, which they were doing in my case, to start making, not micro dramas, but what what do you... What sub... What is the stuff you wanna make? Short serialized episodes of one to three minutes each, which was a trend many moons ago and didn't really work out. If you recall, a bunch of creators were trying to do that. And obviously, Quibi was the other one. Is this sort of back again? Do you think it'll succeed at this point?
Scott Galloway · 29:43
Well, the clip economy, whatever you wanna call it, huge trend. I I don't know about you. I'm absolutely... I hate to admit it. I'm absolutely addicted to Instagram Reels, and it's... I think it's become my primary source of information.
Kara Swisher · 29:55
Me too.
Scott Galloway · 29:56
Yep. I think the algorithm is incredible.
Kara Swisher · 29:58
So do you think they can take it to the next step to create mini dramas? Because it didn't work the first several times. This is the third.
Scott Galloway · 30:06
I just don't think you ever... I hate to say that. I just don't think you ever bet against Mark Zuckerberg. I I used to think TikTok was gonna disrupt Meta. Now I find myself spending less time... I don't know about you, this is post marketing on TikTok and more time on Reels. I think they'd look at it and said... I think Mark says, that's amazing. Steal it. Steal it, and then make it better, and then point our billion and a half person fire hose at it.
Speaker · 30:30
And
Kara Swisher · 30:31
So if you're marketers here, where do you start to point stuff at entertainment? It's there, right? It continues to be there. That's gonna be entertainment.
Scott Galloway · 30:39
It's a hard one because any business dependent upon Alphabet, unless you're the creator, if you try and get in the middle, your margin is their opportunity. Ten years ago, some of the biggest firms here and houses were SEO companies. And then Alphabet said the whole point of our technology is we eventually make you obsolete. So I'm very reticent. If you're a creator and you can displace Comcast or ABC or A and E with with one of these platforms, that will give you a greater share of revenue. I think YouTube does that pretty well. Yep. But any business banking on... You're interviewing Meredith Levin tonight, the CEO of New York Times. I don't if you know this, was on the board of the New York Times. But we owned something called about.com, and it was worth a billion dollars. And then one night, our revenues were down 60% because Google did some panda thing and basically just crushed our traffic. So a decent test, anyone should ask themselves is what percentage of our revenue and margin is dependent upon one of these platforms? Because they'll keep you in business just long enough until you get real margin, and then they'll come for you. Anyways, I'm droning on here. Think it's situational, but I think these guys are basically in the business of just finding... Except for the creators, it's... They they, you know, they do some there, but I wouldn't wanna be in a business focused ever on these platforms.
Kara Swisher · 32:05
On these platforms, but that's exactly where it's going. This is the first time I've thought about creating stuff not... You know, I just did this television show, but now I'm thinking how would I do it not with any of the regular TV entities? Like, what would be the way to make... Say, if we decide to make a Pivot television show, for example, what is a television show going forward? And that's something I'm thinking about a lot.
Scott Galloway · 32:27
Well, would be on... Yeah. You're right. It would be on YouTube with clips. And, but if you look at, why is podcasting drawing so much talent right now and growing so fast?
Kara Swisher · 32:36
It's not your looks, but go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 32:41
We first started
Kara Swisher · 32:41
our That was an easy one.
Scott Galloway · 32:42
So I'm very, that was a layup. So when we started this podcast almost eight, nine years ago, and I'm very transparent about economics, I think rich people not talking about their money is nothing but an effort to suppress the middle and the lower class. Rich people talk about their money all the fucking time. Start talking about money. Anyway, when I first started on Pivot, I got 15 of the revenue. Because the means of production, a company with capital and a studio, I used to go into that lame studio on Broad Street, and they knew how to do podcasts, and it was technology and union people. And so the means of production, whether it's MSNBC or CNN or podcasts back then, meant that the talent got 15%. You probably got more. You were the star. But now talent on podcasts gets 70% because the means of production just doesn't have the power. Yeah. That's effectively the arbitrage that's taking place across all media, is the means of production is being arbitraged and getting out of the... Getting people out of the middle such that creators with great content and the end consumer can enjoy. Podcasts are 80% of a television show for 5% of the production cost. Yep. Absolutely. So there's opportunity for advertisers and creators. And the example I always use is Colbert, 60,000,000 in revenue, a 100,000,000 in cost, a band, a theater, unions everywhere, makeup artists, five people on the guest booking team, made 60,000,000, was not economic. He's gonna go to a podcast. He'll take... He'll... Six people will make it onto the podcast arc. He'll do 20,000,000 his first year, and it'll cost 4,000,000 to produce. So that's a pretty good deal for Steven.
Kara Swisher · 34:17
Yeah. If that. Absolutely. Alright. We're gonna go on a quick break. We have one more thing to talk about, when we're back.
Speaker · 34:27
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Speaker · 35:18
We pulled all of that data and
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Scott Galloway · 35:55
This series is presented by
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Kara Swisher · 36:41
Okay, Scott. We're back with more news. World Cup right now, as you said, there's gonna be a lot of gambling, and the markets are worried. But what do you imagine the the effect of World Cup will be going forward? What do you... What is your thoughts on where where... What what what are the takeaways from doing that? Because it really is, I think, the most important, as you said, economic story right now across the globe.
Scott Galloway · 37:06
Yeah. I I don't have any real insight other than what I said. I think I think I think the world in the West needed a reason to like each other again and recognize that Americans, distinct of our leadership, are an interesting, loving, kind people with really fattening but wonderful food, and that Europeans and all these nations have incredible cultures, and they bring a little taste of that culture. Yep. You're gonna see the prices of teams go up, and even I go back to the wealth creation of these these companies that just went public, that probably took the price of these companies going up because sex drives everything. And if you're a 45 year old who quite frankly never got laid in high school, you're trying to figure out a way to become the sexiest man in Cleveland, and the way you do that is by buying the Cleveland Browns. And so all of a sudden, there are a ton of people who wanna own sports teams right now that have capital. So you just saw the price of every shitty football, cricket team, whatever, go up 20, 30%. SpaceX up went up 20%. The price of most sports teams globally went up 30 or 40 because you're gonna have midlife crisis money, which is irrational chasing trophy assets.
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 38:15
Mhmm. Very excellent. Alright. Last thing, prediction, and then we'll get questions from the audience.
Scott Galloway · 38:19
The... My prediction is the following. The biggest IPO of this... The biggest tech IPO of this month in terms of First Day Pop is not SpaceX. It's actually a European tech media company that's pricing next week. Does any... This is a test. Any guesses? Bending Spoons. Bending Spoons is essentially the Berkshire Hathaway of beloved but forgotten Internet brands. Evernote, Eventbrite, AOL, Vimeo, We Transfer Oh, We Transfer. Meetup. All of these companies that were supposed to be the next Airbnb or
Kara Swisher · 38:56
They were all the unicorns of the year.
Scott Galloway · 38:58
The unicorns, super fat, and then this company out of Italy comes and buys them, consolidates the back end, which is a ply way of saying cuts costs dramatically, increases their prices. A lot of these companies have very strong margin power and consumer loyalty. Q one twenty twenty five, 270,000,000, 120,000,000 losses. This quarter, 625,000,000, 28,000,000 in profits. They're getting a ton of momentum. It's essentially
Kara Swisher · 39:30
It's orphans brought together in
Scott Galloway · 39:32
It's one it's orphaned Internet companies with a lot of margin power that have been forgotten, and they're rolling it up. And this is a callback to the most profitable disruptive company that used to own Can't. This is a callback to WPP. They used to buy companies for seven times EBITDA, cut costs on the back end, reduce key man risk, so to speak, and then take it to the public markets at 12 times EBITDA. I think this is an incredible company. It's out of Italy, which is interesting, really good human capital. And there's about a thousand of these companies that never quite made it across the goal line. And the most fascinating thing about their numbers is 88% of their revenue is recurring revenue. All of these companies are subscription. So basically, this is SaaS meets Berkshire Hathaway. I like the fact that it's out of Italy. I like the fact that it's not AI.
Kara Swisher · 40:25
So it's just a simple cleanup.
Scott Galloway · 40:27
2,500,000,000 2,500,000,000 in revenues. It'll go out at seven to eight times revenues. I think this company will have the largest pop of any Internet tech IPO of of the month. That's pricing
Kara Swisher · 40:37
It's a classic is what's happening here.
Scott Galloway · 40:40
Well, it's it's it's essentially there's a value in these brands. They still have very loyal audiences. Yeah. And they were also they also grew up in a time where capital was cheap, so quite frankly, there's a lot of fat to cut. And these these guys are executing like crazy, and once they have a public stock, think about how big the list is of companies that were once hot, and they're still good companies. Yeah. And they spent billions of dollars of venture capital aggregating audiences.
Kara Swisher · 41:08
Yeah. Like Red Envelope, for example. Oh, sorry. Are you so hostile today?
Scott Galloway · 41:14
Jesus Christ.
Kara Swisher · 41:15
No. That was a good company. I sort of got it Yeah.
Scott Galloway · 41:17
Thanks to that.
Kara Swisher · 41:18
It was. I know. It was a good idea.
Scott Galloway · 41:20
You can have the kids every other weekend.
Kara Swisher · 41:21
So But there are a lot of value in a lot of these companies. Anyways,
Scott Galloway · 41:26
my prediction is the biggest IPO in terms of First Day Pop is gonna be a European... The Berkshire Hathaway, I've forgotten Internet brands, and that's this company called Bending Spoons that I had not heard of until two weeks ago. I'm kinda fascinated with it.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 41:38
Anyway. Alright. Questions from the audience. Let's... Where's the thing? Here we go. We're gonna go around. Keep them tight so we can answer as many as possible.
Speaker · 41:46
Hi. Kim McKenzie from Ladies to Strategize. So you guys often talk about Polymarket. Mhmm. Do you think that it's gonna be used as a legitimate polling data and predictions for the new US election, and should it?
Kara Swisher · 42:00
Legitimate. How so? I mean, people are on it, so you can't really stop it. I I think people pay it. It's one of these things during elections. US people go and stare at them for a minute, and then they go away from them. I think it's being used more as opposed to going to all the... There was a bunch of others that people would go to, all the different polling accumulation sites. I think Scott's been very negative on polling. I think a lot of these prediction markets are easily gamed, and so I worry about their their their reality, but they often do reflect a sentiment. Right? So I think it's just one of those other signals you have to get. But I definitely pay attention to them more than I should, and I know they're gamed in some fashion. I think they're also easily manipulated by a wealthy person, say, named Elon Musk, has enormous amounts of funds that he's gonna put towards the midterms to create all manner of confusion. And so that's the real danger in it. I'm not sure voters pay attention to it. Like, I just don't. I don't know if voters spend a lot of time. I think a lot of the pundit class certainly does.
Scott Galloway · 43:00
I use Calci all the time for... And I find... I think polling firms that are nonqualitative are basically out of business. Calci has never gotten an interest rate cut wrong. They have predicted every single Fed action 100%. I totally rely on the prediction market, specifically Cal Shi for... Because there's something about pundits saying what they think is gonna happen and then looking at where people actually put money. That... If you really wanna know how someone feels, see where they're spending their money. So I think they're... I think they are... I'm fascinated by the data. I think they're incredibly accurate in on
Kara Swisher · 43:37
But they have to self govern themselves more because they're... Because the government's coming after you're seeing all these different arrests. And so if they don't self govern sort of the gaming that goes on, I think it's gonna be a... They're gonna sort of shoot themselves in the foot in that regard. Yeah. Because there's case after case of someone doing something fun. Yep.
Scott Galloway · 43:55
I hope you're right. That's the right thing. The Internet is littered with companies that were supposedly gonna be regulated. Yeah. That were doing... I mean, we'll see. I I hope there's regulation.
Kara Swisher · 44:05
Wanna go after these companies. You've noticed a lot more action very quickly as opposed to bigger social media companies right away.
Scott Galloway · 44:13
With the amount of big back end, the amount of money... We're gonna find out in two weeks. The amount of money being wagered on these markets around the World Cup
Kara Swisher · 44:19
Yeah. Huge.
Scott Galloway · 44:20
Staggering.
Kara Swisher · 44:20
Staggering. Gonna
Scott Galloway · 44:21
be bigger it's gonna be bigger than what was what was gamed in Vegas during the same period.
Kara Swisher · 44:26
Yeah. I think more than $5,000,000,000 have already been traded on the World Cup outcomes across those two platforms, which is enormous. Next question. Hello. Hi. Mhmm. Hi.
Speaker · 44:36
Great episode. Ted from the agency... Advertising agency, Park and Battery. Quick question. Love your unvarnished opinion on this. Do you see a big next act from some of the CEOs that were pushed out? I'm thinking Adam from WeWork, Travis from Uber, and they've gone on to do their own thing, but given all the dynamics and excitement, you know, that we've been seeing and talking about today. Yeah. Do you see a big next act from them and similar former CEOs?
Kara Swisher · 45:05
I mean, they've tried like Adam's tried with that rental weird fucking thing. Flow. I don't know what that is. He...
Scott Galloway · 45:10
It's actually doing okay. Flow.
Kara Swisher · 45:12
Doing okay. Yeah. I mean, they're fine. And Travis has done his ghost kitchen thing, and now he's doing
Scott Galloway · 45:16
Robotics.
Kara Swisher · 45:17
Robotics, something around robots. They're gonna try. I think most of these people don't have a second act. They just sort of wander around and pontificate. That's been my experience. They had one great moment, often fueled by anger. And then they don't really... There's very few that have double acts that I've I've seen. I can't... Can you think of one? Someone who, like, got sort of turned around and then came back. I think they get rich, happy, they surround themselves by enablers who violently agree with them at all times, and saying, you got, you know, you got screwed, you know, or, Terrance, wish it was mean to you, like, or something. You were right the whole time. And I think they just don't... They... Most of them don't learn from their mistakes, and they don't... And that's the way you develop the next thing to me. But that's
Scott Galloway · 46:05
The the the good money is on no, because a couple things happen. One, one out of seven companies works. And so much has to go right for the company. Just probability that if you nailed it and so many moons lined up for your success, you're kinda due for them not to line up. It is really hard to repeat, really hard, because so many things have to line up. And the other thing is the majority of great artists stop... Can't... You know, they slip in the shower when they're 24 and they have a hit song, and then they hit 30 and it just all stops. Because you have kids, because your brain changes, because you start evaluating risk, all of a sudden you stop thinking crazy and you have the guidelines of societal norms. You're not working eighteen hours a day because you're rich and you don't need this shit and you want to spend time with your kids. So the mojo and the creative genius that's fucking... I mean, who told Michael Jackson to grab his crotch with a glitter glove? I'm telling you, 40 year old fathers don't think that way. It's just... So you lose that creative craziness, you lose some mojo, and just statistically speaking to repeat, I've started nine businesses. I'm generously three, four, and two, and all of them seemed like great ideas at the time. And more of it than anything was just luck and timing, and it's very hard to hit the lottery twice. So the good money is usually on no.
Kara Swisher · 47:36
Yeah. Think I most of you who see Cedar, like, Zuckerberg continues to excel, like... Or Cook, whatever you think of the the golden statue, continued to excel. The people that stay at the companies tend to... Like, Sachin Adela. Like, you've seen, like, that kind of thing. I don't see a lot of new rebirth. There's not many Rolling Stones out there, I would say,
Speaker · 47:59
right here.
Speaker · 48:00
Good day. The name's David. Good day. I've got a question for you, US related. There's a lot of news about redistricting, voting rights, voting machines, yada yada yada.
Kara Swisher · 48:11
Yeah. We've noticed that.
Speaker · 48:12
Oh, yeah. I've noticed that. Yeah. So what's your prediction of how that will impact the elections? I'm asking on behalf of the Well,
Kara Swisher · 48:19
I think a lot... You know, it's... I would agree. I have... I I I read a lot about it. I'm not an expert in this area, but I... From what I understand, the Republicans have vastly overreached in this area and it's not working, and they may live to regret their efforts. I don't think people like it. I don't think voters like it. That said, it's they've done a lot of like, we've created all these partisan like the note, if there's a chart of partisan, you know, purple areas and blue and red. And it's like there used to be a lot of purple. Now there's not a lot of purple. They've managed to do it. And I... And then of course the Democrats reacted correctly to try to mute it in California and everything else. But that's not the way you wanna go. Right? You want these districts. And so I think I believe in Scott. I don't know how Scott feels about it. I believe in voters. I think they ultimately push back. And I think the Republicans have started to see some real losses in some of these redistricted areas. And you'll see a lot more. There was a story in the Washington Post this week about the enthusiasm of Democratic voters. Even if they're not enthusiastic about Democrats, they're turning out more. And Republicans are kind of disgusted with Trump. You know, they really are. He's losing base after base after base until it's finally Kid Rock and that Lean Greenwood guy. Like essentially. He can't get entertainers to go. He's losing Latinas. Latinos. He's losing all vast young men for sure. He's losing all the stupid comics. So I don't I don't know if it's gonna work, but it's not a good thing. Read this... There's three things I think have hurt our country more than anything. One is gerrymandering. Two is Fox News, and the third is social media, if I had to pick the three things. So...
Scott Galloway · 50:05
Yeah. I would I would add I would add Citizens United in there. Look, the vibes are really good right now for Democrats and for pushback on Trump. You know, he's I think the least, second least popular president at this point.
Kara Swisher · 50:18
No, was the least. He was the least affected. Least, yeah.
Scott Galloway · 50:23
So things look good. Gerrymandering and just taking a grid and placing it over America or de gerrymandering is a great talking point. Won't happen for this election. The x factor is the following. This is what I think happened in the last couple months. I think Elon Musk called president Trump and said, if you lean on the SEC chair and the Nasdaq to include me in the Nasdaq 100 indices, which will create an incremental 10 to $30,000,000,000 in demand for my float, which will take my net worth up 20 to 40,000,000,000, I'll spend $1.02, $10,000,000,000 on the midterms, and there's nothing to stop them. So I think the x factor
Kara Swisher · 51:00
Is Musk.
Scott Galloway · 51:01
Is Musk because the reality is as much as we like voters and Americans are smart and da da da, the the elections are kind of won and lost in a 10% in the middle. And those people are busy and have things to do, and they're influenced by media and the good work you do. And if you increase your net worth by 100 or $200,000,000,000 because of SEC and NASDAQ anomalies that have never been granted to any other company, and you have a direct line to the president who can make this shit happen, why wouldn't you say, hey, boss, I'll spend $10,000,000,000? $10,000,000,000 is gonna win a lot of... He spent... He influenced the last presidential election with 250,000,000, and this is the power. This this this is the problem. This is why throughout history, a known known is the following. Power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts. And in a democratic society with network effects, money and technology create power on a level and a reach we've never seen before. So a combination of Citizens United, a very smart guy who understands technology, and a willingness to spend $1.05, or $10,000,000,000 in the election, look out below.
Kara Swisher · 52:09
Think that's the ex...... Of their candidates is really quite bad. And that's that's really... And some of the Democratic candidates are very compelling, I think, has a better bench, And there is an element to that. They've they've managed to pick really unattractive horrible people. And in the Musk case, I do agree with him. He's got enormous amounts of power. The thing is a lot of reporters and others are onto him, and the more you expose him, the more people are repelled by him. And so there is an element to take advantage of there. The more he looks like he's manipulating the elections, the more people push back against it. I... He he and Trump have... The the brand has gone down. I think he more than Trump than anything. Okay. Last quick question. Where... Right here?
Speaker · 52:51
I tend to get my news from Blue Sky, but following dispersed creators and media like Heather Cox Richardson
Kara Swisher · 52:59
Who you just had on.
Speaker · 53:00
Yes. She's amazing. And Substax and things like that. Is there enough reach there to actually make a dent and and get in front of people, or is that just kind of like a losing model, subscription based, and and it'll probably go nowhere given it's a lot of collections of little voices?
Scott Galloway · 53:19
The answer is yes. I think I think... What is it? Blue Note? Blue Sky, I'm sorry. I think it's a cute and adorable, and it's gonna die a slow death. I just don't think it's got I think it got some early traction. This is just vibes. I don't look at the data. I haven't seen the data. But Substack, I think is a winner. And I do think that these platforms, there's just too much creator content. The most encouraging thing about creator content right now is 50% of the ad spend on creators is in nano or micro creators, and that is people doing little niche things. And so trust from institutions is leaking the trust of people who go after very... The specific crowds out the narrow. I've been watching this dad who, Wally Cooks, talks about universal health care, and I just find it fascinating. So I I think some of them will win. The one you brought up, Blue Sky, I'm not I'm not... I think it's a better brand than a business right now. But, yeah, I think there's gonna be a ton of cool little niche platforms that will likely be swallowed up by the big players.
Kara Swisher · 54:20
I'll make the final comment on that. I think the the increasing power of all these smaller things are gonna... Are really becoming very strong at this point in terms of not just... But numbers too, and people listening and everything else. And I do... I... But I do think we can't abandon certain central, institutions like the New York Times or CNN or all these things. They have to be owned and run by people with responsibility towards actual journalism. Because you can go on and on about the Lincoln Memorial all you want. I mean, what... What's happening in Reflecting Pool was just a fat flat out lie by president Trump. But it took the New York Times to actually go and find all the data and do the reporting, and so you... That... All that depends on a thriving journalistic community. So it would be really great if we could have owners of these real journalistic institutions that aren't incompetent, and you know who I'm talking about in this case, but that we we we support those and at the same time, push all these creators. I have helped a lot of people leave big journalistic institutions, But they're doing great work. And the thing is that it's very hard to do investigative work. It's very hard to do the really hard reporting without the support of institutions. And there are economic models, if we do it right, that will continue to protect that. And so I'm hoping there'll be a combination of big institutions that figure out their economics better, which they can, with owners that aren't incredibly idiotic. And and then and then these smaller ones that are sort of spurring them to do so. And a collection of them, think, is incredibly powerful. I think Scott and I have a lot of influence that we never thought we'd have. But it's beyond influence. It has to be informed influence and reported analysis. And so it's not just people doing takes, hot takes all over the place. Because that doesn't that doesn't tell you things. You need real reporters on the ground understanding what's happening and bringing it back to people in a fair way. And so I think I I do... I... I'm very pro on media right now. I think it's one of the most undervalued stocks. I think it's undervalued in a lot of ways. So I'm hoping that that at at some... I know there's this worries about these billionaires taking over and quashing them. Let them, as Mel Robbins likes to say, because we have lots of options, and we have lots of choices. And I do think everybody is very open to new ways of getting information. So they can try their best, but they're not gonna be able to quash really great reporting over a long period of time. I don't think that, and I believe in that. Okay? Alright. Thank you guys so much. Okay, Scott. That's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more pivot. Read us out.
Scott Galloway · 57:01
Today's show is produced by Lara Nayman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Todd Wiseman. Ernie or Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Dubrowz, miss Severio, Laura Stark, Will Lee, and Jenna McGill. Nishat Kurow has Vox Media's executive producer of Vox Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening. To pivot from Vox Media, you can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Go team Scotland. It could happen.
Speaker · 57:26
Yeah. It could happen. Thank you, Ken.
Kara Swisher · 57:29
Thank you.
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Speaker · 58:49
We pulled all of that data
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Scott Galloway · 59:26
This series is presented
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