Kara Swisher · 25:46
He didn't know who makes the iPhone. But I think I'm gonna do a win, this week. I'm gonna do Alexandra Ocasio Cortez, who gets a lot of attention, obviously. But I wrote a column about how she's really, owning own... Extremely online. I said she was extremely online, and she is really causing... Creating creating, controlling, and pushing forward narratives that she's interested in, including, pay inequity and income inequity and all kinds of things. And she manages to shut down her critics, the right wing. They just... They cannot stop her. And she's she's... It's a really interesting way. She she... She's never aggrieved. She's just very funny and very strong minded and also serious. And one of my favorites was when Joe... From her own side of the aisle, Joe Lieberman is sort of a conservative senator. But he said she wasn't the future. This is a... I don't know how old he is, but he's been around the block for lots of blocks for many years. And he said she wasn't the future of the Democratic Party, and she she she tweeted back at him. She tweeted back the story and she goes, yeah. New new congress. Who dis?
Scott Galloway · 26:51
Yeah. She's she's outstanding. What is it about her Twitter? I heard I heard she was giving lessons to her colleagues on how to use
Kara Swisher · 26:59
Twitter and you You can't give lessons in this. You know? I I compared her to Trump. Trump is a very... Trump, I think, is very effective.
Scott Galloway · 27:05
And she's unafraid. She's not she's not interested in party hierarchy. You can tell... You can imagine Pelosi and Schumer or whoever it is sit her down and say, or or Stani Horner say, this is how we get things done. Your time will come. Play ball. And she's just not having any of it.
Kara Swisher · 27:21
No. But she's she... Everybody is talking about income. And and by the way, they agree with her. And the way she's explaining it, she's doing something... She's... She... Like, you were gonna talk, like, it is like, you know, Kennedy in television. Like, it's... What... How do you look at that? Like, she knows how to... There's something different in how she's using it compared to everybody else, think.
Scott Galloway · 27:40
Well, typically, these seminal leaders have always figured out a way to master new media. And, you know, unfortunately some very damaging leaders in the middle of the twentieth century were really good with radio. But, you know, Kennedy and TV, we talked about this. Some people have mastered the in person medium, but she is definitely somebody who's kind of on a rocket ship. I mean, what does she what does she care? She's 29?
Kara Swisher · 28:06
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So It's just... The performance is... I mean, and and she also messes up in a really good way. I just... It's a really interesting... I think, you know, everyone's sort of waiting for the fall, like, this is gonna fall. But I don't know. She's... I just... The the the... I find the Twitter... Just the Twitter performance is so flawless. It's like she lands it with a 10. She sticks it, I think.
Scott Galloway · 28:27
She's fantastic. It's gonna be very... And you're watching the next six months.
Kara Swisher · 28:31
My kid loves her who's voting in the next election. He was like, she's amazing. She's... Like, he was... He... He's never been excited about a politician. Trust me. Although I do think Nancy Pelosi is doing great too.
Scott Galloway · 28:41
Is this the one that likes the Gillette ad or the one that thought
Kara Swisher · 28:44
Yes. The one who likes the Gillette ad. Yeah. But he also... You know, but Nancy Pelosi is also not doing bad herself.
Scott Galloway · 28:49
Her She's a great
Kara Swisher · 28:50
little sides weeks. Her... All her sides and then not disinviting him and stuff. I think she's she's doing a good job too. The ladies are in charge. Scott, what are your wins and fails?
Scott Galloway · 29:02
So actually, agree with you. I think I think Pelosi has really kind of, I don't know, reinvigorated or burnished her reputation as a real leader. I think she comes out of this looking good. I think the Democratic party, you know, we're great at sort of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and it feels as if around the shutdown that it has squarely landed on the president's desk.
Kara Swisher · 29:24
Mhmm.
Scott Galloway · 29:25
And as much as you hate to see it, what's going on, I do think that it's... Every day, I just think it gets a little bit worse for the president and the Republicans. And I thought
Kara Swisher · 29:34
Giuliani. What happened with Giuliani?
Scott Galloway · 29:36
Well,
Kara Swisher · 29:36
he's Maybe there was collusion. Wait. No collusion. No collusion. Alright. Maybe a little collusion off to the left.
Scott Galloway · 29:41
Tiny bit.
Kara Swisher · 29:42
There was collude. There was collusion. You know how that mold is, that collusion is. It just gets in, and you just can't get it out.
Scott Galloway · 29:50
It's like What was he said? He said, I never said the campaign didn't collude.
Kara Swisher · 29:54
Just No. But they did.
Scott Galloway · 29:55
President. Yeah.
Kara Swisher · 29:56
But they did. Like, it's just a sound... They don't think we, like, have tape. It's just the weirdest thing. It's it's... Anyway, where... What else do you what else do you think is a win or a fail?
— Predictions segment begins —
Scott Galloway · 30:06
So I'm trying to think... What what else did we have in... Oh, I I fail our predictions.
Kara Swisher · 30:11
The government shutdown, the... Everything.
Scott Galloway · 30:13
There's a lot going on. I... I'm I'm trying to bring this back to Big Tech. I don't know if you saw. I think that... And this is both a a Snapchat? A Blues and a prediction for 2019. It ends up that the CEO of WeWork has investment interests in properties that they've been leasing or that WeWork has been leasing from. And as long as it was disclosed and as investors knew about it, it's fine. But my prediction is 'nineteen is going to be a very bad year for WeWork.
Kara Swisher · 30:42
Oh, interesting.
Scott Galloway · 30:43
And you saw what happened with the limiteds of SoftBank, including some of the Middle Eastern sovereign funds who actually stepped in and blocked this massive investment that SoftBank was about to make in WeWork. When your limited partners step in and actually block an investment, say to the general partnership, the guys allocating the capital, No, we're not comfortable with this. That is pretty extraordinary. You don't see that a lot. If you look at the economics of WeWork, valuation of $48,000,000,000 and yet Regis, of a similar but lamer potted plants, bad cherry wood version of WeWork has twice as many desks, but trades at one sixteenth the value. And while WeWork's created a great brand,
Kara Swisher · 31:27
incredible That's because they don't have kombucha on tap.
Scott Galloway · 31:31
Yeah. They don't have pale ale.
Kara Swisher · 31:33
No, pale ale or whatever.
Scott Galloway · 31:34
But if you look at WeWork, WeWork is now by a lot of analyses, if the floor they own in a large building is technically worth more than the building itself that it leases that floor from. And it's hard to see what kind of network effects or technology. Yeah. It just doesn't... It it... I think WeWork is gonna be in the news for all the wrong reasons in 2000 and 2019.
Kara Swisher · 31:58
What about Snap given the changes? I was in the Snapchat. I was at Snapchat, yes, two days ago. Two nights ago.
Scott Galloway · 32:05
Do you know the CFO there? Do you know... Do you have any backstory there?
Kara Swisher · 32:08
I do not. I would need to find out. I do need to find out. They did they did add some really good people, also, like Julie Henderson from, Fox, who I have great regard for. It's it's... I don't know. I'm not clear what's going on. There's definitely... I mean, they're definitely having a hard time competing, with with what was a very innovative product. And, again, my kid still uses it, and both of them do. But it's a... It's it's just hard. I think it's a really hard go. And this this management... The inability of of Evan to keep this management team together is is something you definitely have to look at.
Scott Galloway · 32:43
So this is a broader topic, but I wanna talk a little bit about isms. Right? So whenever there's a movement or there's a polemic that we discuss in our society, oftentimes think it's too late. So in the seventies and eighties, we talked a lot about how people of color, specifically African Americans had a much more difficult time in the workplace. And that was a worthwhile discussion. But I always felt as the son of a single mother who could either be a travel agent or a secretary, that was literally the choices for a woman in the seventies. That it was really that the cohort that was most discriminated against was in fact women. And since then, women with college educations have actually closed the gap. It's women with children that are still having a tough time in the workplace that the corporate America just hasn't figured out a role for them. But I would argue the next cohort that's gonna get more attention, and what actually doesn't get enough attention now is ageism, especially in tech. And I think it's gonna become a big issue in 2019. I think if you walk into a conference room or a meeting at a technology firm and you're over the age of 45 and you're not a billionaire, you're kinda seen as a loser. I think there's a Wait. Pretty big
Kara Swisher · 33:51
That's that's richism. But go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 33:54
Well, you know what I'm saying. I I think that if if you're not... If you haven't really killed it by the time you're 40 or 45 in tech, I think there's an there's an inherent assumption that you're just not very good at what you do. And I think these cultures are pretty ageist, and I think that's gonna start getting more attention.
Kara Swisher · 34:10
That'll be... There's some laws... There's lawsuits. There's been lawsuits and things like that. You know, somebody talks about this a lot is Dan Lyons, who has a new book out. We... About... He did it in his last book talking about ageism and things like that. But I agree. It's a really interesting, issue. I... Having... Being a really old person. Although, I I don't suffer from that, because I'm better than they are. It's true though.
Scott Galloway · 34:31
That was easy.
Kara Swisher · 34:32
Come on. It's not even hard. But
Scott Galloway · 34:34
tying this back to Evan and even Mark Zuckerberg, think something else that's gonna get a lot of scrutiny is that these two class shareholder stocks, these two class shareholder stocks protect these managers. So I believe the reason Shell Sandberg hasn't been fired is because they can't fire, they don't think they can fire Mark Zuckerberg because of this two class shareholder system. Snap has the same two class shareholder system. You have a young man who's already a billionaire. And if it wasn't a two class shareholder company,
Kara Swisher · 35:03
I
Scott Galloway · 35:03
think they probably would have done something. I think they probably would have sold by now. And this is a problem with two class shareholder stocks is right now he doesn't really need to be a fiduciary for other shareholders. I see. He's banked at a billion bucks. He's off to the races. He thinks he has a viewpoint or a vision, which he has been totally unable to articulate what it is exactly they're gonna do here. Mhmm. You know, the redesign didn't work. They're getting killed.
Kara Swisher · 35:25
Well, he had a very good vision initially. Right? It's a really fresh vision. Everyone stole it.
Scott Galloway · 35:29
Like, was sure. It's a great company. I find...
Kara Swisher · 35:32
I have to say, of a lot of the people I talk to, I really enjoy talking to him because I always have a really... He's a he's I would... Visionary is a good word. He actually... You're always like, oh, I didn't thought of it that way. But you're right. It's the execution. Visionary vision can only get you so far. And so that's what he... That is... He really has the issues with around PR. Not just every every part of it is, is problematic... Has been problematic for them.
Scott Galloway · 35:55
But the CFO leaving, it kind of punctures another prediction we had a few months ago, where I thought that Amazon was a likely acquirer because the CFO was a twenty year veteran of Amazon. Yeah. And the
Kara Swisher · 36:06
fact that someone who was at Amazon for twenty years, you could hardly describe this person as
Scott Galloway · 36:10
a flake or someone who just kinda goes off half cocked, leaves Mhmm.
Kara Swisher · 36:13
Snap after six months
Scott Galloway · 36:15
Yeah. Is a very negative forward looking indicator. Because this is the individual... I would see the CFO in any company as the source of truth. If I'm ever in a board meeting and I hear talk and I don't know what's going on, I sequester the CFO for ten minutes. I'm like, okay. What's going on here? And they basically, you know, they take the entire board meeting and they put Wonder Woman's golden lasso on and they say, this is the truth. This is what's going on. And when the person who knows the truth, after six months, it snapped
Kara Swisher · 36:42
besides I'm out of here... I'm sorry. Eight months.
Scott Galloway · 36:46
I think that's I think that's more, you know, kinda trouble trouble in my girl.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 36:49
Definitely. I will look into it. If you will go see Sheryl Sandberg in Germany, in Munich, I will go find out about this.
Scott Galloway · 36:57
You know what I'm doing before that, Kara?
Kara Swisher · 36:59
You're in Paris. Don't fuck
Scott Galloway · 37:00
I'm in Paris. Hold on. Hold on. No. This is this is You're
Kara Swisher · 37:02
going to have snails on the Seine, what?
Scott Galloway · 37:05
This is the worst flex in the world. I'm meeting a buddy of mine and we decided to go to Vienna and we're seeing those dancing horses. So this is how old and pathetic I am. Yeah, the lip
Kara Swisher · 37:14
and socks. Whatever.
Scott Galloway · 37:16
Dancing horses. Lip Lip and sides? Lip and something.
Kara Swisher · 37:20
Lip something.
Scott Galloway · 37:20
Ten years ago, last time we got together, he and I went to Stockholm, we went to some rave and I tried experimental drugs. Now we
Kara Swisher · 37:27
go see dancing horses.
Scott Galloway · 37:28
We might as well go to Denny's and get the grand slam special and
Kara Swisher · 37:32
go the river dance of, like Seriously? Austria? Isn't that like
Scott Galloway · 37:36
First, I need... First, we need to sterilize our calf
Kara Swisher · 37:38
or we're take the Broadway, whatever. That's... You're gonna see horses dance? Alright.
Scott Galloway · 37:43
We're gonna see horses dance. I don't know how he ended up there. How did I get so old? How did I get so old, Karen?
Kara Swisher · 37:48
I'd go looking for alt right people in Austria. They're all over the place again. The family Von Trapp. The Von Trapp family singers. The family Von Trapp. Remember that?
Scott Galloway · 38:02
Adelas. You sound very relaxed. You sound you sound very chill.
Kara Swisher · 38:07
Hakuna Matata, baby, or whatever. What is... Nice. I was in the town Lilo and Stitch was was set in. Lovely. Hana Pepe or something like that. It was great. It was lovely.
Scott Galloway · 38:17
Yeah. Good for you. Yeah.
Kara Swisher · 38:19
Yeah. Anyway, well, I'm here in DC for a long, long time for the freezing cold weather, for the next couple of weeks. So we'll be talking from here. So I will go around and see how badly the government has shut down. I'm going to see a senator very soon. I'm gonna get in the... On the metro right now and go visit senator Michael Bennett from Colorado.
Scott Galloway · 38:34
I love senator Bennett.
Kara Swisher · 38:36
Do you?
Scott Galloway · 38:37
Does it keep you close? I met with him. I'm finally... I can finally flex back. I met with senator Bennett about six weeks ago to talk about antitrust.
Kara Swisher · 38:45
Well, good. You know
Scott Galloway · 38:46
what he asked me? What? He said to me, he said, Give me 10 ideas to restore the middle class.
Kara Swisher · 38:51
Oh, all right.
Scott Galloway · 38:51
He's like, Right there. He's like, Give me 10 ideas to restore the middle class. This guy, talk about the kind of guy you want as an elected official. You know what he did before? He was a superintendent of schools.
Kara Swisher · 39:00
Well, I can... I am so excited. He reached out to me and said, can we meet? So he... He's making the rounds, I guess, of smart people.
Scott Galloway · 39:08
He's a very decent man. Yeah. Yeah. I was really... I walked away.
Kara Swisher · 39:11
I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm meeting all the politicians. I'm gonna do that in the next few weeks. I'm gonna meet all the politicians. And then to... This afternoon, I'm gonna be doing a podcast with the CEO of Land O'Lakes, Beth Ford. She is the... She's openly... She's a lesbian, very open. And she's running this thing, and she was the... They were the first p company... One of the companies to push back on King, and take away his money and stuff. And so we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about the technology beyond... Aggregate technology. It should be interesting. There's all kind... And we're reaching out to the real people, Scott, aren't we? We're not Yeah.
Scott Galloway · 39:43
We're keeping it real.
Kara Swisher · 39:44
Yeah. We're keeping it real in Paris and DC. Yeah. Alright. Go enjoy Paris, the city of lights. Thanks very much, favorite places. Next week, we'll talk about all kinds of things. I want... I will need some stories from there and stuff that was talked to at DLD and stuff like that. I'm excited to hear, what what went on there and what the big topics were. Anyway, enjoy yourself. Rebecca Sinanis produces the show. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Thanks also to Eric Johnson. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for more of a breakdown of all things tech and business, and welcome back, Scott. I did not leave you for John Lovett. It was just a short affair. And I know you saw someone too. If you like what you've heard, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening.
