Kara Swisher · 37:46
Cameron. That's a fantastic question. That that hashtag is really interesting. I think it's very similar to what what what Scott was just talking about Facebook. I think a lot of these committees are big leaves for these companies. They're gonna do what they want with the technology that's critical to their future. Scott?
Scott Galloway · 38:03
I think they get to hire and fire who they want. And unless they've broken the law around discrimination or wrongful termination, they get to fire who they want. I think quite frankly, they set themselves up for failure by creating a title called AI Ethical. I mean, I just think the whole thing's kinda
Kara Swisher · 38:20
Yeah. What I was telling you, it's a fig leaf kind of thing. They do. They're trying to say they're concerned about these issues, which are concerning, by the way, but they don't you're right. They did set themselves up for failure, that they were never gonna make people who are... Care about ethics happy because it goes against some of their businesses. And so I I... Putting them inside of these companies, to me, is always an error. There should be outside independent bodies that study this stuff and make recommendations and put pressure on these companies. Journalists should be doing it. The regulators should be doing it. And inside a company, just like... Even though the Facebook board is supposed to be independent, it's not. It doesn't feel like it. It it... You can't buy your own supreme court. You just can't. And this is sort of a version of that. Mhmm. I think it's a lot of times it's in good faith. They're trying to like, but a lot of it is PR and signaling and keeping people quiet. I think the job of this stuff is done by regulators, the press and groups that pressure, even hashtags.
Scott Galloway · 39:23
Well, so I remember in the 90s I used to probably the coolest project I ever got right out of business school in my 20s, was asked to sit in the board meetings of Levi Strauss and Company and then just stand up and provide feedback. And I remember thinking they had a, quote unquote, head of international. Oh, yeah. If you have a head of international, you're not an international
Kara Swisher · 39:43
dumb ones, but go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 39:45
And it's like when Pinterest had... I think didn't Pinterest have a head of diversity and inclusion and they
Kara Swisher · 39:50
ended up?
Scott Galloway · 39:52
But if you have to have that, you're just setting yourself up for failure. And AI, you know, AI calling someone... It's like in business schools, we now have departments of ethics and leadership and diversity and inclusion. You know why? Because every day at universities, we administrators ask ourselves the same questions over and over. We try and answer one key question, Karen, and that is how do we pay ourselves more while decreasing our accountability? I know. Let's create a center on leadership so there's nothing measurable to be
Kara Swisher · 40:22
ethics discussion.
Scott Galloway · 40:23
Oh my god.
Kara Swisher · 40:24
There should be, like, a class. Oh, for... No. No. You're wrong on this. There should...
Scott Galloway · 40:27
If you can't control my 10 year old, I'm gonna tell a 28 year old how to be ethical? No.
Kara Swisher · 40:31
Not how to be ethical. To talk about it. To, like, studies different ethical things, to discuss. There... Every corporation bullshit. Social issues they have to deal with. We just talked about this last week with Base Camp. They... People have to be ready. Part of the reason Mark Zuckerberg is bad at this is because he never took a a philosophy course. He never took a, like, a good... He left college before he got some background. I think there's... It's important as part of... And just like the way they do it with doctors, they do the same thing. They... There has to be some element of philosophy and and and deeper things within the educational system. I didn't say telling them what to do, talking about what the many thorny issues are. In this case, it does not belong inside a company. It just... It will not work. The people will be fired. There'll be all kinds of stirm and drang about it. People will be shocked, shocked, shocked that they behaved like this. It's often women and people of color who are leading these teams, diversity teams or whatever. The numbers will remain the same. Everyone will be mad. And that's the problem, is there's lack of any kind of progress in this area is what makes people furious, and it has to come from pressure from outside, from... And persistent and constant pressure. And then inside, people sending Cara Swisher memos about what's really going on. Thank you.
Scott Galloway · 41:43
I think I think that was well said. I'm still sticking with my guns, that whenever we bring in some, what I call FIP, formerly important person to run a center at a business school, it's like, well, okay.
Kara Swisher · 41:53
Mhmm.
Scott Galloway · 41:54
Let's increase costs. Let's pass it along to students in the form of debt, and let's have no measurable outcomes that result in why we're here, and that's to help them create economic security for them and their families. But, anyways
Kara Swisher · 42:04
I would agree. Think church students like that.
Scott Galloway · 42:07
As you said, philosophy courses are what are supposed to shape a person. By the time they get to business school, Jesus Christ. Anyway.
Kara Swisher · 42:13
In any case, I've been asked to do things like that. And I'm always like, oh, you want the prominence of me without any real affect... Effect. It doesn't have any effect. It's a waste of my time. That's what I feel like sometimes when I've been asked to do things like this.
Scott Galloway · 42:27
You know the most effective? I think the most effective thing around leadership is occasionally we bring in some guy, then it's always a guy that went to prison for ten years for insider trading. It's kind of a scared straight thing.
Kara Swisher · 42:37
Oh yeah, remember scared straight? They don't do that I
Scott Galloway · 42:40
don't think. They don't. Yeah, think that's actually It pretty
Kara Swisher · 42:43
didn't scare me straight, obviously.
Scott Galloway · 42:45
Oh, I get it. I get it.
Kara Swisher · 42:48
Scared gay. I remember that. Felt so, it wasn't right. I even at the time I was like, okay, we're bringing in essentially people of color to yell at a bunch of white kids in my school at least. And it was it was it was weird. That was weird. I just had I just had a weird high school memory. Anyway, I agree. This has gotta be done from the outside. I would rather be on the outside throwing stones at the inside and and and get... And getting revelations and things like that from people there to see how it works. And then put it all out, and if people don't like it, there's pressure on the company, shareholders, business, things like that. That's how
Scott Galloway · 43:20
Agreed.
Kara Swisher · 43:21
That's how it should work.
Scott Galloway · 43:21
Agreed.
Kara Swisher · 43:22
But there should be... By the way, again, Congress needs to act around AI facial recognition. I did a great interview with Joy Bolanwini at MIT. She's... All she did is she just showed it off what what... That was happening. Much more effective than any 20 groups of people inside of any company. You know? She just said, here's all my research with a thousand faces that apparently facial recognition doesn't know black people exist, and here's how. And then they made changes, and that's how it worked. So there you have it. Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
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— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 44:47
Okay, Scott. Being in a grumpy mood, you predicted Dogecoin was going to spike. But didn't you just work out? You should be in a better mood.
Scott Galloway · 44:54
I should. I'm not. I know what it is.
Kara Swisher · 44:55
It's because you didn't have enough time... Fun at the rave. That's what it is. You're wondering why you're not a
Scott Galloway · 44:59
I need to start dating this woman called Molly. Supposedly she makes you very happy.
Kara Swisher · 45:04
Actually, there's some recent, just today, was some reports about how it helps PTSD. There's a lot of really promising. Oh,
Scott Galloway · 45:09
and depression.
Kara Swisher · 45:11
Promising Psychiatropics. Stuff beyond opiates, this is a way to do it. Lots of tech people. If they're gonna do anything good for the world, this is gonna be at the funding of all this research, real research around it to get it approved for people.
Scott Galloway · 45:24
No. I'm absolutely going back to Tulum and doing a bunch of molly just for the good of the world.
Kara Swisher · 45:27
Don't hug me. Don't do it in front of me because you'll try to hug me, that will more... That will end badly for
Scott Galloway · 45:31
you. She so badly wanna hug the dog.
Kara Swisher · 45:33
I really don't.
Scott Galloway · 45:34
Do you pretend... Twitter knows you love me. Twitter knows you love me.
Kara Swisher · 45:37
There's not even a moment that I think about hugging you. Alright. You predicted Dogecoin was gonna spike you and Rebecca bought some. Of course, I did not. When Elon is on SNL this week, how is your Dogecoin doing? It's gone up, I think. And will you be watching? Elon Musk will be on Saturday Night Live this weekend for people to
Scott Galloway · 45:55
As is the case with all crypto. I said I was gonna buy it. I planned to buy it, and I did not buy it, and it's up. I I really can't handle this.
Kara Swisher · 46:04
Okay.
Scott Galloway · 46:05
I was thinking about, as a joke, I was gonna put a decent amount of money into Dogecoin and do this whole thing, Dogcoin. And if we'd done that, I'd be flying back to Tulum right now, my G fucking $6.50. I mean, it's just crazy what has happened here. But I think all of this is You still have time. The thing is, well, I've tempered my comments because I'm worried about someone accusing me of being what I am, and that is old, and also angry that I missed out. And I have an entrenched interest in the existing infrastructure around the markets because I've done well with the But the reality, I think this is really scary. I don't think that invented currencies by people who claim it's a joke, and now and now it's worth more than FedEx. Do you realize that the market capitalization of Dogecoin is now greater than Moderna? Yeah. So I I wonder... And also, I just don't like the...
Kara Swisher · 47:00
I think it's speculation just like they did with GameStop. That's what's going on. It's the speculation. 100%.
Scott Galloway · 47:05
And I just don't like the notion that one individual can move markets like this. I think it's really, I don't think that ends well. So we'll see. I'm planning on, when I gamble in Vegas, I take a certain amount of money, I put on a kilt. I am so much fun to roll with in Vegas, by the way.
Kara Swisher · 47:24
Totally So it's gonna be Molly, kilts, Awesome and
Scott Galloway · 47:26
Vegas Vegas. For
Kara Swisher · 47:27
Okay, all right.
Scott Galloway · 47:27
I am awesome in Vegas.
Kara Swisher · 47:28
All right, I'll go to Vegas with you in a Kilt. You know, we'll invite Mark Cuban. He's a lot of fun. But go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 47:35
Yeah, he would be a lot of fun. Mark Anyway, Cuban would be so I go there. I'm gonna do the same thing at SNL, and I've got... I'm I'm doing... What is it? Uniswap or Binance and or... I forgot what... Signed up to basically play Dogecoin during SNL. You and I will live tweet. Okay. But the thing is we got Front Run. Big insight around Dogecoin spiking during Saturday Night Live, everyone, the markets are smarter than me and anticipated that, and Dogecoin is up. Jesus Christ. It was up 25% yesterday. I just, I can't get over this thing. I absolutely can't get over it. It reminds me Sell in the
Kara Swisher · 48:12
it Saturday night, right? Or something, Sunday.
Scott Galloway · 48:16
Yeah. I think I'm selling by the time we hit weekend update because that's when everyone will kind of go to sleep, right? I go to sleep after weekend All
Kara Swisher · 48:24
right. In any case, do you think it'll be funny? Hasten it. Elon Musk? Yeah. Or it will be like awkward? It's either gonna be really awkward. There'll be a lot of marital
Scott Galloway · 48:34
I think I'll bring like the charm of Peyton Manning and the good looks of Donald Trump. I'm trying to think of two guests to triangulate off I
Kara Swisher · 48:42
am gonna go opposite. I think it's gonna be very funny.
Scott Galloway · 48:44
You think he's gonna be hilarious?
Kara Swisher · 48:45
I do. I... He's he's a he's... You know him.
Scott Galloway · 48:48
I don't. You like him.
Kara Swisher · 48:49
You know, one time he showed up at a meeting with a stuffed monkey and he made me laugh. It just made me in front of a very important It was a harembe or whatever. And he kept playing with the monkey during this interview with this very important person. And I just thought it was hysterical. He's a he's a quirky man, I would say. I just think he might be funny.
Scott Galloway · 49:11
Don't know. We'll see. I think it's... I think every SNL issue is really more about the writers than it is about the... And occasionally you get really really shocked. Who's... Gosh. The one woman was incredible who dated... Oh, she's an incredible singer. Oh gosh.
Kara Swisher · 49:25
Miley Cyrus is on this weekend.
Scott Galloway · 49:27
Yeah. This woman hosted and she was fantastic at doing impersonations. Oh, what is her name? She gave it Pete Davidson? Not not Adele.
Kara Swisher · 49:34
Oh, Ariana Ariana. Ariana.
Scott Galloway · 49:36
Ariana. Was so... You occasionally find, wow. This individual is so talented beyond beyond just a great voice. Anyways, we'll see. I'm tuning in. I hate myself for tuning in, but I'm tuning in.
Kara Swisher · 49:46
Alright. We'll see how it goes and how your Dogecoin. I'm sorry you didn't buy any. I believe, Rebecca, you bought some. Right? Yeah. I did. I had to go apologize to every tech bro I've ever dated and be like, you're right. I bought some Dogecoin at the end of the day. Humiliating. So Rebecca is going to score while you did not, Scott. Well, you were slow... Too slow dancing unhappily in Tulum. Rebecca was there. Thank you, Rebecca. Okay, Scott.
Scott Galloway · 50:09
I don't know if it's related, but Rebecca just handed in her notice and has bought a tango clinic in Buenos Aires. I don't know if the two are related. I don't know if the two are related.
Kara Swisher · 50:18
On that note, I did not buy any Dogecoin nor did I say I was going to. I like to miss every, every financial
Scott Galloway · 50:26
I return like we to buy at the top.
Kara Swisher · 50:29
I like to buy at the top.
Scott Galloway · 50:30
I like to buy at the
Kara Swisher · 50:31
Well, you know, my grandfather wasn't, was not a big investor, although he did rather well for someone who immigrated from Italy. And I once asked him about the stock market, and I said, you know, what do you... How do you how do you think about the stock market? He goes, it'll go up or it'll go down. And that was his thing.
Scott Galloway · 50:45
It's funny. There you go.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 50:47
I was like, okay. Thank you. I thought that was wise. It was very wise. Yeah. Alright. Don't forget if you have a story in the news that you wanna hear our opinion on, submit your questions to nymag.com/pivot. Do not ask about the Facebook oversight board because Scott has had enough until he has taken Molly, and then we will have a delightful discussion on that issue. Scott, can you read us out?
Scott Galloway · 51:08
Today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Ernie Intratod engineered this episode. Ernie's back. Back in the house, the e man. Thanks also to Hannah Rosen and Drew Burrow. Make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts. Or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or, frankly, wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like the show, please recommend it to a friend. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Divorce needs a branding, Kara. Okay. It needs a re branding. You and I are... You and I are consciously coupling.
Kara Swisher · 51:38
No. We're consciously coupling. Married, and and I'm gonna uncouple in a minute.
Scott Galloway · 51:42
Oh, the big weekend. Good luck with the weekend with Amanda's parents. Could you take off your shoes, before you come into the house? Say that before they come in.
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Scott Galloway · 52:45
See store
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