Scott Galloway · 23:14
Not happen. It's a great idea, but again, unfortunately, it's from the good folks at Facebook whose leader puts a piece of tape over his camera and who have control of the media and now wanna take control of the economy and then the military and then find out that their very naive sociopath has been the most dangerous man in history.
Kara Swisher · 23:30
Well, so therefore... And what about evils?
Scott Galloway · 23:32
Too much.
Kara Swisher · 23:32
No. Too much. No. You want them to fail slowly. I love that. That's like like, just slowly over here. Don't tell them they're failing over over
Scott Galloway · 23:40
to Let them bleed out slowly.
Kara Swisher · 23:42
Stick to their knitting. That's... Think what you're basically saying is eventually they have to stick to their frigging knitting. And and the idea that you're successful in one area and that you
Scott Galloway · 23:51
can move to. Facebook, keep at it. It's a great idea for you. It's definitely gonna pay off, Facebook.
Kara Swisher · 23:57
And where's your Elon coin? He tweeted in support of the mind of Bitcoin rev... Dogecoin.
Scott Galloway · 24:02
Sheryl Sandberg used Libra on her honeymoon on her
Kara Swisher · 24:05
engagement party when she was at refugee camps. No. No.
Scott Galloway · 24:08
When she was at refugee camps.
Kara Swisher · 24:10
Yeah. Where's your Elon coin? That's what I wanna know. He was he supporting a Bitcoin rival called Dogecoin.
Scott Galloway · 24:15
T coin. T coin.
Kara Swisher · 24:17
I don't know.
Scott Galloway · 24:18
He could do it. It won't be a stable currency, though. It won't be a basket. He's more gangster than that and not as thoughtful. I mean, he's a genius, but I think he'll just... I think if the Tesla stock in any way regresses to some natural level below a $100, he will think of... He could pull off a coin. Has that same fanaticism following that Bitcoin gets. So they could absolutely pull off. And the way you do coins is what Facebook wanted to do. They wanted to be more responsible and have it guaranteed by a basket of currencies as opposed to it being a currency. It was gonna be an asset or something representing a basket of assets that could be tradable and transfer assets. Whereas Bitcoin is just a currency where two parties agree that something is Tesla worth could effectively do a coin to avoid the SEC what you can do is you can say all right initially we're launching a million coins or a 100,000 coins and what this coin does is it puts you first in line for any Tesla product. Then you can avoid the SEC launch. And then You need kind of the launch without... If it represents ownership in Tesla then it's subject to SEC regulations and Elon doesn't do well with that. But they could pull it off. Tesla is one of the few companies in the world that could pull off what I call a nonstablecoin, whereas an Amazon would have to go stable and do a basket of basket of currencies, which requires a
Kara Swisher · 25:43
lot of regular Just what I wanna buy, a nonstablecoin.
Scott Galloway · 25:45
Unstablecoin. That
Kara Swisher · 25:47
may not be built. Sounds
Scott Galloway · 25:48
good. A stable genius as president.
Kara Swisher · 25:50
His stock is killing it. Killing it.
[Ad break]
Kara Swisher · 25:53
That's killing
Scott Galloway · 25:54
it. That's kinda why I was hoping South by Southwest would be canceled so I wouldn't have to face people where a year ago I said that
Kara Swisher · 26:00
the test was gonna play it.
Scott Galloway · 26:02
$300 a week.
Kara Swisher · 26:02
It all queued up. In any case, Scott, we have to take a quick break. We'll be right back with a listener mail and predictions.
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Kara Swisher · 26:51
That's the most important thing we should be focusing on right now.
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Kara Swisher · 27:05
Meaning that the opportunity to pass the policies that the majority of our state supports, things like increasing minimum wage, legalizing marijuana, codifying abortion.
[Ad break]
Kara Swisher · 27:28
That's all on the table with the democratic trifecta.
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Kara Swisher · 27:35
We have an opportunity through Wisconsin to actually start improving the brand for Democrats.
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Kara Swisher · 27:49
Alright. We're back at pivot with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway. Had a few listeners ask us question about a Jezebel article that investigated how therapy apps like BetterHelp handle user privacy. As you know, all user data is sensitive, but especially health care and mental health data. So we reached out to Dhruv Mehrotra to tell us a bit more.
Guest · 28:08
Hi, my name is Dhruv Mehrotra. I am an investigative data reporter at GeoMedia. A few weeks ago, Molly Osberg and I put out a story in Jezebel about how online therapy apps are leaking sensitive mental health data to companies like Facebook and Mixpanel. For the story, Molly and I did a week of online therapy with two popular apps, BetterHelp and Talkspace. In the process, we used software to monitor and track the various third parties that were receiving data about us while we spoke to therapists or filled out intake forms. The article basically finds that the regulations that safeguard medical data are unprepared to deal with the realities of online advertising. We reached out to BetterHelp several times, and they essentially just told us that this type of behavior is pretty standard practice for measuring engagement and that they aren't collecting personally identifiable information. However, as an end user, while all of this may be legal, it certainly feels like a deep invasion of privacy. So the question that I have is this: What will it take for companies like BetterHelp to take this stuff seriously?
Kara Swisher · 29:10
Alright. There's a lot to unpack here. Now full disclosure, again, we... BetterHelp advertise with us. But this is a real big problem. We wanna get people these... I I recently talked to the head of Stanford Medical School and other. I'm doing a lot of health care related podcasts at Recode Decode. And one of the things that comes through is what do we... How do we get these things off the ground? They really haven't, and a lot of it has to do with HIPAA and privacy. But at the same time, people should be able to avail themselves the same way in other areas to these things. So what... From an advertising perspective, damaging for people and profitable companies to access this level of personal information depends on how much information they get, whether it's identifiable, And then what responsibility do therapists have to disclose this type of information to patients?
Scott Galloway · 29:51
Well, it's the same tension we're dealing with everywhere, the tension between utility and privacy. And I've always thought that the real danger is not that you can't trust better health or calm or there's I think there's some great online. I think online could be tremendously powerful as it relates to talk therapy and bringing the costs down and giving people taking the friction out of. I mean there's a lot of friction. If someone's not feeling well and they think I could really use a certified professional to speak to about some of the shit that's going on in my head, there's a lot of friction to figure that out. So the idea of an app that helps connect you with a licensed professional, I think that's a wonderful unlock. The idea that with something like that I wonder if you just turn off all targeting and they're not in the data business. Where I meet my head immediately goes to Kara is that the reason why Apple is probably is, or one of the reasons that Apple is so well positioned to get into healthcare is that they have made some real sacrifices and some of it's PR, some of it's real around emphasizing privacy. But it feels like with something like that it's a decent idea for these companies just to say we're just gonna shut off all data as it relates to targeting. We're not selling our data, we're not using our data and we're bringing in these crazy cyber security experts to make sure that we're not hackable. Because it's not that these firms are malicious in terms of their use to data, it's the fact that many of them haven't put in place the standards, the requisite standards to ensure that data isn't weaponized or hacked by someone else.
Kara Swisher · 31:20
Yeah. I think hacking is the... I mean, what's interesting is does the government regulate it? Especially, you wanna call it sensitive data, but I think all the data is sensitive. Because as you said, to your point, a few months ago, an article came out saying that several dating apps had released data about things like sexual orientation at third parties. There's so... In... When... As you move into these areas, it really does... If there should be two types of ways to handle data, and what's the ethical difference between selling data about the content of messages versus larger metadata? Would you invest in one... Or you... When you invest, how do you think about this kind of things? Because, you know, if something got out in the wild, especially on dating apps or mental health apps or any health apps, but things like that, it starts to get real... Children, there's all kinds of areas where it starts to get really problematic for these companies. And and government... This is just the kind of thing government jams in on and does something about.
Scott Galloway · 32:13
Yeah, this is sort of a trope event though. Think, I don't know, I haven't looked at these companies, so I don't know. Investing is such a, your decisions are one, do you like the management team? Do you, I've always invested behind people not concepts because typically a startup changes the concept midstreams but you still have the same management team so you want to invest behind people. And then you look obviously at the market and the valuation etc. But this is a space that somebody is gonna emerge in this space. Now like almost every space online it will likely there'll be a lot of innovators and they'll be to be acquired or put or have infanticide performed on them and Apple or Google or someone will step in. But this is don't think this is any reason to avoid these apps. I don't think it's any reason to avoid investing in them. Think it's a catalyst and what I would call almost like a wake up call for this sector to we should operate by a different set of standards because our data is so sensitive. I mean talk about the CDC, Google, every major tech company has had their data hacked. CDC hasn't had their data hacked. We constantly
Kara Swisher · 33:18
That we know, but go ahead, sorry go ahead, keep going.
Scott Galloway · 33:21
Well I think that would have gotten out. But my point is that we constantly talk about the geniuses in Silicon Valley and how stupid the government is. Meanwhile the CDC has the most sensitive information in the world and they have put in place the requisite safeguards because they're not a for profit company to ensure that arguably the most sensitive data in the world is kept private. So I think it's a wake up call for the health guys. I don't know the company that advertises with us, but I think this is an exciting field and could be a huge unlock that is both profitable and really wonderful for society. We've talked a lot about mental health. Think mental health, just as cancer has become, I think one of the reasons that we've found that cancer is now more curable that the survival rates have gone above fifty percent in addition to incredible research and funding. A lot of it is societal and that is cancer used to be something you didn't talk about. It was almost like there was something wrong with you. People were very hush-hush about it. Women didn't talk about female cancers, men didn't talk about prostate cancer. And just having it come into the dialogue and speaking openly and honestly about it leads to early detection. I think the next big unlock from a societal dialogue standpoint is mental illness which touches every life at some point. Have
Kara Swisher · 34:34
you ever used any of these? I've used the Calm and the meditation apps but you haven't used any of these.
Scott Galloway · 34:39
You know what though? I did a podcast with Sam Harris last week.
Kara Swisher · 34:42
Yes. How did that go?
Scott Galloway · 34:44
He's groovy. He's very like calming and nice. And the guy has incredible... The thing that struck me about him, he has incredible range. How You some people know a lot about one subject or very little about everything. He seemed to know a lot about a lot of different subjects. I felt like I was talking to someone who knew more about this subject on anything I brought up. And he also has that kind of dreaming calming voice where you just want to put your head on his shoulder and have him pet
Guest · 35:09
you. Think you really don't want do that
Kara Swisher · 35:10
but okay.
Scott Galloway · 35:11
He is very calming. But I liked it but anyways he brought up, I said in the last half of the show because he's very into meditation. I was very fairly open with him. I said, let me flip the script here. I struggle with anger and kind of mild depression and I wanna understand how meditation can help my blessings foot to my mood more regularly. And he talked a lot about it. He's very thoughtful. I think he's the kind of guy that could start a podcast or meditation app and I think would do pretty well. The other thing that's interesting about Sam Harris that you and I should be thinking about is he's been quite successful putting his content behind a wall. That is we did a two hour podcast and the first hour is free or penance for some people. And then he stops it in an hour and he says, if you want to listen to the full thing, make sure you subscribe. And he charges people $5 a month. My understanding is he has a lot of subscribers.
Kara Swisher · 36:01
Wow. We could go on. Lots of people do that.
Scott Galloway · 36:03
There you go. Send it to an enemy. Send it to an enemy.
Kara Swisher · 36:08
That's interesting.
Scott Galloway · 36:09
But anyways, see, what do you think? Have you... What do you think of these
Kara Swisher · 36:13
these apps? I use them because I I worry about the the data I mean, I I don't... I have no mental health problems, as you know, Scott. Completely actualized. Someone said that to me. Someone literally said that to me last night. They were like... They... I said I was happy. Someone was... It was at a dinner thing, and they're like, no. You're not happy. I go, no. I'm pretty happy. I'm very happy. And they're like, well, no. You don't know that you're not unhappy. I go, no. I'm really happy. I don't know what to tell you. And they said, you can't say that. I go, I'm pretty happy. And then again last night, someone said, you're fully actualized, which is really interesting. So I might not use it because I don't really have... I don't feel... I really do feel very happy. But here's the deal. I I would worry about the the the data. I just I just don't... I don't know who they are, if they're gonna close, whether it's BetterHelp or Talk, whatever the other one is. I just don't know what's gonna happen to them. And I I just had this issue around '23 and Me where I was one of the first people to use it because we use... We showed it off at one of our early all things d's. And they have all my genetic data, and just recently, they've done some layoffs. And I, you know, I I think they're fully committed to keeping the the stuff safe, but then I'm like, oh my god. I better destroy it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, my data's out there. And, like, what's gonna get What was I thinking? Because it's out there.
Scott Galloway · 37:17
I don't know. Word... Word's gonna get out that at some point in the future, you're gonna be short with great hair.
Kara Swisher · 37:21
That's good. Or or, like, clear. I thought... I just recently have started to think, like, they have my eye thing. And then I'm like, you know what? I'm just fucked if a crazy if a crazy author turns, they'll find me.
Scott Galloway · 37:30
The cat's out of But let me ask you this. My genetic history is I am German and Italian, which means I'm smart enough to know that I'm fucked up but too lazy to do anything about it. Is that racist? Is that racist?
Kara Swisher · 37:42
Wanna know.
Scott Galloway · 37:43
Is that racist?
Kara Swisher · 37:44
Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 37:45
Okay. Anyways, that's my that's my genealogy joke.
Kara Swisher · 37:49
My Alright. 23
Scott Galloway · 37:51
me joke.
Kara Swisher · 37:51
Your genealogy jokes need some work, but go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 37:53
Keep up. I did 23 and me, and it said I was gonna have to pee five times tonight Yeah. And Yeah. I was sleeping.
Kara Swisher · 37:58
Yeah. I know that's a problem for you aged people. So, anyway, I just worry about the the the the thing and and the the the trust in in these companies. And, again, there's so much data out there. But these particular... Particularly sensitive data, mental health, health data, dating data, genetic data, there's gotta be a different... Like, there... There's some... And just today, there was an amazing story on on the New York Times by Kashmir Hill, I think, is one of the best reporters out there on these issues. Is this facial recognition company Clearview. You know, that they handed it out to their investors, including Ashton Kutcher had it, and they were showing it off. Like, that you could put it up. Like, it was supposedly... They're giving the view out that they're only giving it to law enforcement people, But actually, like, Ashton Kutcher's walk in. The guy who runs Gristides is walking around, and his daughter came in, and he she... He checked the facial recognition of her date. And so that's the... I'm like, are you freaking kidding me? You see how these things go. And so that's
Scott Galloway · 38:54
But is it... It's just... Isn't it? I didn't know how... I'm curious to
Kara Swisher · 38:57
get you answer. To Twitter.
Scott Galloway · 38:59
What? Is that is that... Isn't that just googling someone and taking it to
Kara Swisher · 39:02
the next what Clearview is saying. You can just Google some. But this case, you put the camera in front of someone, and you could get all their information. So, yeah, it's like a super Google, really. But it's it's it takes it one step further because he he didn't know his name. And so instead of, like, asking the daughter the name of the date so he could search for them and stalk them online, he just had the waiter take a picture and did it. And then it's a party trick for some of these people. But it's still, like, it's just... I don't know. I just... It takes a step further.
Scott Galloway · 39:30
Institutions... Ivo said this. Look. Institutions matter, and I think we're all looking for guidance around this. Yes. And there's a wisdom of crowds, and we we elect officials. And the idea of the word liberal in the term liberal democracy is that we insert institutions to slow down so our fast move thinking moves to slow thinking, total Kahneman. And then we think, all right, what components of data, where does the data versus utility something scary or violation of your property? What's the intersection of that? And how do we create laws or how do we create quite frankly liabilities such that if a company ends up doing something wrong then get sued and they get more careful about it. So... But it feels like there's an absence of institutions or institutions haven't caught up with the age.
Kara Swisher · 40:13
Alright. We're good. You're absolutely right. That's very wise, Scott Galloway.
Scott Galloway · 40:16
It's very wise.
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 40:17
It's because you've been meditating on the app. So so predictions. We don't have wins and fails today. So I... I'm gonna I'm gonna force your prediction in a certain way. You may have a different one. But where is... Elizabeth Warren does not endorse anybody, and there's question whether she should be senate majority leader if if the democrats win. What... Which one will she go to if she makes an endorsement? The fact that she's not making endorsement tells me bad things for Bernie Sanders because that's where she would naturally go.
Scott Galloway · 40:43
Oh, a 100%. A 100%.
Kara Swisher · 40:44
What happens with her? Because she's gonna be a big, a big player, I think, here.
Scott Galloway · 40:48
So let me... I get more than my fair share of predictions right about business. I get more than wrong about politics. I'm clearly in a bubble and don't know what's going on. But I think just in terms of game theory, the fact that she didn't immediately come out and endorse Sanders means she's seen the tea leaves and recognizes that Sanders is not gonna win and she's either holding onto her cards for a later endorsement for Biden. But you know what would be a pretty interesting ticket is Biden Sanders would take the the moderate and then probably do some sort of... I mean let's be honest. Elizabeth Warren is sort of in some ways non carbonated or in some ways the more effective Bernie Sanders. She's actually passed legislation whereas Bernie just rants and raves and has passed five bills including two to put post offices in Vermont. Yeah, there's a great legislator. Anyways, is... The only prediction I'll have around that, I don't know, she's not gonna endorse Sanders because I think these people are all very power hungry. I think they're all very strategic and that would be her.
Kara Swisher · 41:39
But she had that kerfuffle with him over whether women could be president, remember? You don't remember that when they had the little fight at the time?
Scott Galloway · 41:46
I I think they're all hornier for power than they are around... Than they are being easily offended. I think she's gonna go with the winner right now. Joe has so much momentum.
Kara Swisher · 41:56
Joe Mentum.
Scott Galloway · 41:57
And all that, I mean, what do you think? Biden warden ticket would be pretty interesting.
Kara Swisher · 42:02
I would really consolidate a lot. Very East Coast.
Scott Galloway · 42:04
And she's The BP is supposed to be the attack dog, and she is. She's a good dog. No one's better than
Kara Swisher · 42:09
Burke. Her penance. Oh my god. Her with Pence would be like, I would pay a $150 to watch that card.
Scott Galloway · 42:15
Who would you rather who would you rather be on your softball team or be arm to arm with you in legislation?
Kara Swisher · 42:22
Who is Your your friend Bloomberg. She took down your your candidate Bloomberg. She took
Scott Galloway · 42:26
down on your side or be more... Or have all the blood draw out of your face when you see she's on the other side than senator Warren?
Kara Swisher · 42:33
Her. I
Scott Galloway · 42:34
think fantastic ally and a fierce enemy.
Kara Swisher · 42:36
Yeah. That could be interesting. Also, Klobuchar is another possible VP choice for him. So is so is Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams. There's
Scott Galloway · 42:44
You mean the ruthless real estate realtor, Amy Klobuchar?
Kara Swisher · 42:47
Alright. Anyway, alright. Give me a a business prediction then we gotta go.
Scott Galloway · 42:50
Alright. I just wanna do a quick fail though.
Kara Swisher · 42:52
Right. Okay.
Scott Galloway · 42:53
Fair. The Fed cutting its interest rates. Yeah. That's just so stupid. You know what? What? You have those moments that occasionally just sort of embody what America is about. It's good and it's bad. With coronavirus, the majority of government actions around nations around the world is to figure out a way to manufacture distribute
Kara Swisher · 43:09
free and cash people tested.
Scott Galloway · 43:11
Yep. Our reaction is to cut interest rates.
Kara Swisher · 43:13
Of course. That's that's because that's Trump. Because it's... Because it... Because they're because they're worried about dealing
Scott Galloway · 43:17
with it.
Kara Swisher · 43:17
Yep. I agree.
Scott Galloway · 43:18
I I like Jay Powell. I'd like to think he was not gonna be bullied. He's clearly being bullied and slapped around by Trump. That was where he cut interest rates. That's not gonna work. I thought that and the market saw right through that and it was down seven fifty points that day. Anyways, my prediction because we weren't making predictions. My prediction is I'm doubling down on this. Three days ago I said that Twitter was gonna come to an agreement with activist investors and give up board seats within ten days or three days or something within the next seven days and within thirty days now it's twenty seven days. The part time CEO from Africa is going to step down. So I'm doubling down on my prediction that board seats to activists and Jack Dorsey is gonna find a lot of time to be a full time CEO somewhere or do interesting things in Africa.
Kara Swisher · 44:06
I wrote a column based on you, like, like, a concept. I wrote a little bit more about
Scott Galloway · 44:10
Was it called sexy? No. Was it called the sexy professor?
Kara Swisher · 44:13
No. I was like, let's focus on the money here. This is a business. And also that, you know, as I compared him because Elon Musk, you know, sent out a support tweet.
Scott Galloway · 44:20
I actually read
Kara Swisher · 44:21
that. And and I thought the tweet was interesting. And I was like, look. Elon was in a situation not unlike this, a problem at... A year ago. And he's just pushed his... He just willed himself out of it by, like, putting his shoulder down and sheer will, sheer bravado bravado. Excuse me. And and and it... You know, it's interesting that his stock, of course, went from 200 to 700. And then this one is... You know, has been bumping along bumping along in in lots of ways. So, you know, one of the things... I would agree with you. I think this is... I think he's cornered with... By these people, and he doesn't have... And I have to say I got a lot of reaction to it by people who thought. And then someone was like, well, who could be better than Jack? You know, the founder is everything crew. And, again, I have a lot of regard for Jack Dorsey. But I I made a list without even trying last night, like, sitting, like... I was I was, like, sitting in a bed, and I was, Kevin Sistram and Mike Kreiser, Adam Bain. Adam Bain. Shelby Bonnie. I mean Shelby Bonnie. Well, I I sort of a dark horse kinda guy. He's run a lot of companies. Susan Wojcicki, Brad Smith, Chris Cox, Jeff Weiner, Sridhar Ram Ramswanee from Google. Like, I literally just thought of those at the top of my head.
Scott Galloway · 45:23
Wow. That's impressive. Well done.
Kara Swisher · 45:25
Lots. If you need any help, I made a list. So Yeah. So so you think it's quicker than that. And what's... How does that happen? Because everyone was writing, can you just quickly explain this? Someone's like, they only have 4%. Why do they get to decide? Explain for the people why they get to decide.
Scott Galloway · 45:38
So right now they're contacting other shareholders institutions and saying, okay, we believe there should be a full time CEO. What do you think? And pretty much everybody, other shareholder, at least that I've spoken with has nodded their head and say, yeah, if the stock had skyrocketed like Tesla, we'd put up with this nonsense. But you can't be both in Africa and part time and have the stock go nowhere. You just can't. That's a bad cocktail that investors don't like. And so these guys are gonna basically file a proxy, they've gone to shareholders, and they're gonna seek board seats. Only three come due because Twitter has what's called a weapon of mass entrenchment and that is they have a staggered board. The full board isn't up for election every year, only a certain number of the seats, in this case three. They'll nominate four such that in case one drops out or one of the board members on Twitter steps down, they're kind of ready to go. But right now what you have is shareholders lining up behind Elliott and then calling Twitter's board and saying, hey, just FYI, we've lined up behind this guy. And once Twitter's board realizes and it's probably happened forty eight hours ago that they're gonna lose at the annual meeting, That rather than go through that humiliation, they're going to go back and say, we'll give you one seat. And then Elliot's going to say no. And they'll say that Twitter will go two seats. And then Elliot's going to say no, we want all three seats. And then they're going to call Jack and say, Jack, we have to give up seats, we're in a corner. And then Jack's going to say, I'm stepping down. This is how we
Kara Swisher · 46:59
all talk about Nannie three seats and then Jack doesn't step down?
Scott Galloway · 47:04
Well, board... Oh, there's no way. Jack will... The the first board meeting will be a shit show. The first board meeting will be
Kara Swisher · 47:10
all Still not enough though to vote him out right? There could be three and
Scott Galloway · 47:13
No we'll be he's done. If they get three seats, Jack Dorsey doesn't want to show up to a board meeting that there's three new board members based on one thing and that is that the CEO should leave. I don't think he's that antagonistic or arrogant and all that. Then he's gonna say, and by the way we have to schedule the board meetings during the morning because I'm gone in afternoons. It's just he's done. He's absolutely... This is dead man walking.
Kara Swisher · 47:40
How could he resist? If you were him, if you were advising him, how could he resist?
Scott Galloway · 47:45
I would create a sideshow. I don't know if you saw today, but they announced a new flea product, which is a big distraction. I would try and
Kara Swisher · 47:51
turn this into something everyone else has been doing.
Scott Galloway · 47:54
I I would say, oh, this is... I would try and plant stories that this is a Republican conspiracy. I
Kara Swisher · 47:59
wrote that.
Scott Galloway · 48:00
I would try and find people in the organization to say, I've even seen some Twitter volume that Jack was progressive and that this... I would just try and create a series of sideshows and hope to God that the stock begins to skyrocket or something.
Kara Swisher · 48:16
Which he's not gonna do right now in the middle of coronavirus, but go ahead. There's no reason for it.
Scott Galloway · 48:21
I think this is over. I I just think it's over.
Kara Swisher · 48:23
So is it
Scott Galloway · 48:23
I don't
Kara Swisher · 48:23
think anything he can do to hold on to his job from your perspective?
Scott Galloway · 48:27
Well, even... Okay. So what if he came back? Well, just but just just let's
Kara Swisher · 48:31
talk that. There full time. Could say I'm gonna I'm sorry. You're right.
Scott Galloway · 48:35
But but but the the analogy I use when I talk to investors or people about this is like imagine Twitter's next CEO and you've rattled off a series of people. What if the CEO showed up for the interview and said an interview and they said you're amazing. Let's assume Jack Dorsey is amazing and you're incredible product development and you maybe were involved near the founding of the company as Adam Bain or Dick Koslowa. And they said, okay, I want the job, but here's the thing. I don't want to give up my CEO position at the job I have now. Would that be a deal killer? My guess is it would be. And then if they said, okay, we can get past that because you're just so amazing. And he said, well, okay. In addition to keeping my job
Kara Swisher · 49:10
I get it. What if he says I'm gonna... I get that. It's like... He shouldn't be halftime CEO. I think I've said this dozens of times.
Scott Galloway · 49:16
So what could he do? If he said I'm gonna be full time
Kara Swisher · 49:18
I'm gonna be full time. I'm gonna put my shoulder in. It's a very Elon Musk thing to do. That's what Elon did. Like, I'm gonna put my shoulder in. I'm gonna be twenty four seven. I'm gonna get this thing out. I'm gonna get this amazing product. Because I'll tell you what both of them share. Whatever you think of Jack Dorsey, he's created two amazing products. He is responsible
Scott Galloway · 49:33
for both them.
Kara Swisher · 49:34
Incred... Elon Musk is an incredible product guy. Like, really visionary.
Scott Galloway · 49:38
Genius.
Kara Swisher · 49:39
What if he says that's what they share? And that's why they... One of the reasons they like each other, I think, is they're the real deal in terms of product creation. So what if he says, I'm gonna I'm gonna fix this. I'm gonna focus on product. I'm gonna just be here all the time. I'm gonna be all over this. Like, I'm just gonna be all over this. Although that's... He's not quite the intense person that that Elon is. What is the plan?
Scott Galloway · 49:59
That'd be one way that the investors might go. I think once investors decide that they want them out, which they basically are deciding if they put an Elliott, I think it's gonna be hard for them to backtrack. And the question then becomes well, it took an activist and the threat of you being fired for you to decided to do this. And not only that, I don't think he's gonna do it Karek because 89% of his wealth is at his afternoon job. So... And it appears to me that Twitter is really a hobby for him. It's a... It's golf. He loves it, he's passionate about it, but it's not where he makes his money. He makes his money this afternoon job. He's
Kara Swisher · 50:28
got quite a quite a bunch of executives over at the other company, I'll tell you that. Like, they're great. They're gonna... I think they're gonna start a bank. They're... That thing is killing it. Like, I think he's... He does have executives who could be CEO there, by the way.
Scott Galloway · 50:40
So then then then the play... Okay. So that the only path... And I still think it's probably less
Kara Swisher · 50:45
he tweets it. I will stay here full time if LA
Scott Galloway · 50:47
I'm in full time, and I've canceled my plans to go to Africa.
Kara Swisher · 50:51
Yes. I get it. I've heard. I hear I hear what you say. I've heard you.
Scott Galloway · 50:55
But why does he need that shit? He's worth several billion dollars. He's clearly passionate about crypto, which foots to square, not to Twitter. He wants to go to Africa. It's just... I just don't see him doing this. And then and then that would be real what I would call loss of face. If his investors go, you know what boss, it it took you too long to figure this out. You're done.
Kara Swisher · 51:14
I'm saying that's move for him. That's the move. That thing is You
Scott Galloway · 51:17
think you think that would you think that would
Kara Swisher · 51:18
save Eliot would have a hard press because he's very well respected. So if he says, I'm gonna... He's not just anyway. I think what's interesting is nobody of the Square shareholders are upset about this. Right? Because it's
Scott Galloway · 51:29
doing well. Why though? It's because the stock's up. Yeah. It all comes down as a sorry. You can show up in a in a pink dress and a tinfoil on your head as long as you're Yeah. Input and and then say I'm gonna put cure death or put a man on Mars or whatever it is these these crazy or I'm gonna build a clock that lasts ten thousand years. Just go figure that. But that's fine and I'm showing up at the Academy Awards and sending out dick pics. That's fine as long as your stock keeps going up. That's it. If your stock goes sideways and you're part time CEO, people actually start people start calling irrational, unacceptable behavior irrational and unacceptable when your stock
Kara Swisher · 52:06
underperforms. Okay. Alright. So that's it. But I think that's the move. That's the gangster move he does speaking of gangster moves. Alright. So your prediction is that I I think he might do something left field. I gotta tell you. Alright. I'm gonna go on the... I'm gonna say
Scott Galloway · 52:17
You're taking the other side of this?
Kara Swisher · 52:19
I'm I'm not taking the other side of it. I'm saying he could do something, and I would love to see it. I'd love to see him tweet it out. Like... Because he's done that. Look. He did the... He's he's he's capable of that. You know? Like, screw these assholes. They're not taking away my company. That kind of thing. Right. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. And he's got a
Scott Galloway · 52:36
lot breaks. The kind of guy... I think he goes, I think the new CEO first off needs to go on an all lemon diet for seven days just to be like,
Kara Swisher · 52:44
No. We're gonna get it. But
Scott Galloway · 52:46
he strikes me, a guy who goes on, I don't know, a guy who goes on silent treats to my Animar strikes me as groovy and tone deaf at the same time.
Kara Swisher · 52:55
I
Scott Galloway · 52:56
know. I think he's probably gonna say I don't wanna... I I love this company. I think... I I can tell you what I would do if I were advising him and say I love this company. I'm proud of the progress we've made. I don't wanna be a distraction. I've asked to stay on the board and help out here. I understand the concerns. I love Twitter more than I love
Kara Swisher · 53:11
last clinging to power. Thing I'd say about that, he was kicked out last time. Right? He was kicked out last time. And that was Is that right?
Scott Galloway · 53:18
I didn't know that. Yes. Oh, wait. He's come back twice now.
Kara Swisher · 53:20
Right? This is the... Would be the... Would be... He he was kicked out once, and this would be a two kick out. And I think that's a strong reason to not wanna be kicked out. That is all I'm... There's there's history here. So we'll see. You know? And he came back, you know, victorious kind of thing. In any case, he's a very... Look. Whatever you think of Jack Dorsey, he's the real deal.
Scott Galloway · 53:37
He should start a podcast. No. That's what he should do.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 53:41
No. A meditation podcast. Anyway... And then we'll steal his information and then use it for nefarious purposes. Perfect. Alright. Before we go, one of our listeners asked we bring back, our moments of optimism. Do you have a piece of happiness you'd like to share in these dark times, Scott, very briefly, please?
Scott Galloway · 53:58
A piece of happiness?
Kara Swisher · 53:59
Mhmm. Besides our fantastic relationship.
Scott Galloway · 54:03
I think that as we're thinking about risks, I think life is a function of risks in relationships. And when I think about getting on planes and I think about the places I have been most scared, I'm an erotic person, it's all about trying to get home to see the people I love. And those are enormous risks we're taking. I think it's if you can think about the risks you take to get home. I don't know about other people, but I travel a lot and I find that my heart swells as I'm headed home. Whenever I get on that last plane home and it's just worth so much risk to be around people you love and cement those relationships because it is going fast and that's what it's all about. So the one risk always worth taking is getting home to your family, even if it means being in a steel tube with recirculated air.
Kara Swisher · 54:50
Oh my goodness. That is lovely. I was gonna say that too. I got home yesterday. Actually, Eric Anderson was with me. I got home yesterday, and I walked upstairs, and my new child was sleeping. My baby was sleeping. And she woke up and looked up at me and smiled the best smile. It was a wonderful moment. It was like like... And she recognized me. That was great because I was gone several... Was, like, gone a week and a half. So that was nice that she recognized me, which I was worried about that possibility that that not happening. But it was lovely. You're right, Scott. You you know what? We are of one mind on this issue. Anyway, we love our families. Anyway... And we also love your questions. If you have a question about a story you're hearing in the news, email us at pivot@VoxMedia.com to be featured on the show. And, Scott, make the big announcement. What are we what are we starting next week? Scott,
Scott Galloway · 55:37
you're I am literally Flemish. I don't
Kara Swisher · 55:38
know what you're talking script. We are starting a YouTube channel, so you're gonna see Scott.
Scott Galloway · 55:43
What a thrill. What a thrill.
Kara Swisher · 55:45
I am telling you, is radio on tell... On YouTube. We're gonna... You wanted this. Give me a break. It was your idea, and we're
Scott Galloway · 55:52
I'm wearing midriff. I'm wearing midriff for
Kara Swisher · 55:54
the first your idea. Check us out at youtube.com/pivot. And listen. Think of ideas. The the people do the hot chicken eating with our guests. What do we... What do you want us to do? Send us something on Twitter. What is the weird thing you want us to do every week? Do
Scott Galloway · 56:09
you I am so wearing a thong.
Kara Swisher · 56:11
You're not wearing
Scott Galloway · 56:11
a There is is time. It is so time.
Kara Swisher · 56:14
It is so not time for your thongs.
Scott Galloway · 56:15
It's so time. It's time for the world to see my back fat.
Kara Swisher · 56:18
But It's time.
Scott Galloway · 56:20
You're Kids, stop.
Kara Swisher · 56:21
You wanna wear wigs. I heard you wanted to wear wigs.
Scott Galloway · 56:24
Oh, oh, that's a given. No. That is such a given.
Kara Swisher · 56:27
Oh, Scott.
Scott Galloway · 56:28
Oh my god. Anyway Imagine, imagine, like, I'm like Brad Pitt. I like to take my shirt off. Just imagine minus all the good looks.
Kara Swisher · 56:35
Do not
Scott Galloway · 56:35
But it is so Brad Pitt on YouTube.
Kara Swisher · 56:37
Oh my god.
Scott Galloway · 56:38
I'm gonna get high and take off my shirt a lot.
Kara Swisher · 56:40
Alright. I think Chipotle has to be there. I get... Would rather not see Cialis.
Scott Galloway · 56:44
Those are table stakes. Alright. You're talking a, and c. We gotta talk about r and s.
Kara Swisher · 56:48
Nonetheless, in living color will be brought to you. Scott Galloway and Kara Swisher. We are sometime... I think we're in the same place too. That's even better next week.
Scott Galloway · 56:56
What a thrill.
Kara Swisher · 56:57
What's gonna be a thrill.
Scott Galloway · 56:58
By the way, South by Southwest is for a public health service announcement and to reduce fear. Think you and I should have should have Anand and AOC on stage, and everyone should make out with the other just for public health reasons. Just... We have an obligation to do this, Kara.
Kara Swisher · 57:13
This is not a correct workplace discussion to be having. Let me just Oh
Scott Galloway · 57:16
my gosh.
Kara Swisher · 57:17
Those stories are scorchinghot..com/pivot. Scott, read us out on the credits. See us next week in living color. Kara and Scott, you love our voices. You love us on the show. Now you get to see us. Scott, credits, please.
Scott Galloway · 57:31
Today's producer is Rebecca Sinanis. Our executive producer is Erica Anderson. Special thanks to Drew Burrows and Rebecca Castro. If you like what you heard, please download the podcast. Send us an email. Write a review. Love your family. This is what it's all about. We're all... It's... This is finite. This is finite. It's all about the depth and meaning of your relationships and no one's gonna love you the way people unfortunately stuck with you. Whose family? People that otherwise wouldn't hang out with you. Love those people and love them back. That's the big unlock. We'll see you next week for a breakdown of all things tech and business.
