Scott Galloway · 51:14
And Kohl's trades at a fraction of its value. And Kohl's has fantastic people. They have great human capital. They have great e commerce. They're just in a shitty business right now and that is selling big box... Not big box, but selling other people's brands. Yeah. So that would be accretive from both for real estate, accretive for both human capital. Yeah. So I... Look, I think there's a bunch of opportunities.
Kara Swisher · 51:33
I know it's owned by
Scott Galloway · 51:34
Target. I think that would be too big a bite. Target's stock has accelerated and I I think... I don't think they could afford Target.
Kara Swisher · 51:41
Used to be such an innovative story. Was just in it the other day and I thought, something's wrong here.
Scott Galloway · 51:46
Target? Target? I love the Super Target in Boca.
Kara Swisher · 51:48
I meant the Super. I say I'm in city Targets, guess. They're not quite... I just was always excited by a Target, and now I've been in several that I'm like, it just feels like it needs a refresh. That's my feeling. So... And then Roku, besides Nielsen, what should they buy?
Scott Galloway · 52:03
I don't know. I I don't I don't really have I don't have what I'd call a a strong, you know, strong view on Roku. Maybe because
Kara Swisher · 52:11
it's like go buy something, what?
Scott Galloway · 52:14
Well, you're gonna force me here. If I were Roku, I would think about starting to pick off the best parts of WPP, IPG, Publicis, and Omnicom that are now a shadow of their former selves. I'd find the most data driven interesting agencies that have amazing relationships and amazing human capital and go in and say, hey WPP, I will buy Saxis or whatever it's called, shitty name, X A X I S. These agencies all have buried within them some fantastic companies with fantastic people that are trading at a fraction of their worth because they're trapped in the corpus of a shitty business called the advertising industrial complex where everyone says, okay, we're running ads on something. Viewership is declining 62%, the Golden Globes. Mhmm. So I would get out my pencils and I would go to the big agency conglomerates and start by... Kicking off.
Kara Swisher · 52:58
So there's nobody getting no more parties next year. Are there like
Scott Galloway · 53:01
Oh, yeah. They'll just be thrown by Facebook, though.
Kara Swisher · 53:04
Oh, you're right. I've been to that party.
Scott Galloway · 53:06
Or, you know, Marc Benioff does great parties. I love Salesforce parties.
Kara Swisher · 53:10
Yeah. They're nice.
Scott Galloway · 53:11
Does. Does. They're good parties.
Kara Swisher · 53:13
He's he's They're
Scott Galloway · 53:13
not dirty anymore though.
Kara Swisher · 53:15
That Marc not dirty. Benioff on? Was just texting with him the other night about headquarters.
Scott Galloway · 53:19
I bet you are.
Kara Swisher · 53:19
I like Mark. He texted me about something.
Scott Galloway · 53:22
Let me
Kara Swisher · 53:22
just tell you, we should have him on to talk about headquarters.
Scott Galloway · 53:24
I love that mark on it.
Kara Swisher · 53:25
You know, remember you said if Mark Benioff leaves San Francisco?
Scott Galloway · 53:28
My favorite image my favorite image ever was that b roll of you walking around Salesforce headquarters next to him. You guys look like a different species. I mean, seriously. Is a guy. He is... I think that's the most successful big person I know. Yeah. He's... And he went to USC. Don't hold out against him. I like Mark a lot. I like Mark a lot.
Kara Swisher · 53:51
Yeah. That would be right. I asked him if he was gonna leave, and he wrote... I go, are you are you are you gonna leave San Francisco? And I said, and he was teasing me, and he goes, I wonder if San Francisco... It would happen if Salesforce left California. He goes, we already left, found an amazing new headquarter. We call it the cloud. Touche. Touche Mark. He's not going to leave San Francisco.
— Predictions segment begins —
Scott Galloway · 54:14
You want hear my prediction? Prediction?
Kara Swisher · 54:15
In San Francisco, Tokyo, Indianapolis, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Dublin, and thing. My heart will always be in San Francisco. Thank you.
Scott Galloway · 54:22
Dublin, St. Patrick's Day. There you go. Yep. So my prediction, I think there's something to, I'm fascinated by this wealth tax that
Kara Swisher · 54:34
Elizabeth Warren's back with them.
Scott Galloway · 54:35
Senator Warren. I don't, and here's the thing. I don't think it happens because if you look at the history of wealth taxes, if they're annual, they'd end up not working because very smart, talented billionaires are the most mobile people in the world. And Bernard Arnaud just moves to Belgium. And it's very hard. These are individuals who are like, I have a really nice life and I travel a lot anyways, so I'll just kind of headquarter or establish residence in London. Capital, especially human capital when people are exceptionally wealthy are the most mobile people in the world. And then Elizabeth Warren says, well, when asked about that says, well, I'll impose a 40% exit tax. And there's something uncomfortable that strikes at what is one of our advantages. And that is America and Britain have very strong private property laws. At some point, and quite frankly, think Senator Warren and Senator Sanders are like, you know, you've been in Senate long enough. You're the ones that created some of this income inequality, controlled all three houses, branches of government, and you couldn't figure out a tax policy that didn't create incredible income inequality. And now you want to go kind of Robin Hood people's private capital. So I have, I think a one time wealth tax because of the pandemic might make sense. An annual one is not only, I'm not even sure it's the I right
Kara Swisher · 55:49
said a temporary one.
Scott Galloway · 55:50
Yeah, a one time thing. We did a super tax on oil companies anyways. But a wealth tax, and this goes to my prediction, I think we're gonna hear more discussion about, if you think about you need taxes to defend our borders, you need it to create a society with connective tissue, redistribute income, protect our parks, etcetera, protect people, protect the country, protect our borders, encourage investment infrastructure, know, X, Y, Z. Most of that happens at a state level. And I think the real crisis here and what will be interesting and get more attention is that if you were to take the 10,000 people with capital gains, they are all moving to Texas and California. A, because Texas and California, excuse me, they're all moving to Texas and Florida. A, because Texas and Florida are wonderful, but B, it's like they're engaged in massive tax avoidance. And that is if my SPAC just went public and I'm sitting on a $400,000,000 gain, I can save $50,000,000 by moving to Miami and Miami's pretty awesome. You're going to see, and this would be, I think the way to go some sort of tax. And I think this would be more equitable that says, if you spend twenty years in New York taking advantage of our roads, recruiting from the finest university system in the world, the University of California, leveraging our infrastructure, and you create a company worth $3,000,000,000 and your share of that is $800,000,000 and you have benefited from the extraordinary infrastructure and the tax payers of California, you can't just piece out for eleven months.
Kara Swisher · 57:33
You cannot, you're right.
Scott Galloway · 57:34
And then avoid all those taxes and not reinvest back in the infrastructure that you have leveraged and benefited from. So I think the more interesting conversation we're gonna start to have is some sort of what I'll call value accretion tax. And that is, you can't do an Elon Musk and add the GDP of Hungary to your net worth and leverage the town of Alameda, leverage the incredible innovation that the Bay Area brings, leverage again, Cal State, University of California, and then all of a sudden decide you got a hankering for Texas. So I don't think a wealth tax... Kind of wealth
Kara Swisher · 58:10
tax Let me let me just read something. Let me just... Billionaire Len Cooperman, this is... Told CNBC that he thought the idea has no merit. It's foolish. It's probably not legal if a wealth tax passes. Go out and buy yourself some gold because people are gonna rush to find ways, to cheat, to to hiding their wealth, essentially. He wants to do a progressive income tax. I believe rich people should pay more. Yeah. The question is we have to coalesce around his nation. What should the maximum tax rate be on wealthy people? Because that will define the revenue yield for government. There's lot.
Scott Galloway · 58:39
Get rid of capital gains. But there's something around the new gangster tax avoidance, intrastate tax avoidance.
Kara Swisher · 58:47
Yeah. Because other states like don't have to wear masks here, move here. You don't have to pay taxes here, move here. It's, you know, it's a real dog eat dog kind of thing.
Scott Galloway · 58:57
But it just... But what you want is you want taxation that fits to externalities and where people make their money. And if people are making their money in a state and leveraging the investment those taxpayers and that government are making, you should pay taxes there. And so it's, I think we're going to start to talk about what I'll call a value accretion tax, a VAT, if you will, that says, all right, you made all your money, you made all your money, you added, you benefited from the infrastructure and the high taxes of
Kara Swisher · 59:29
The innovation of the government.
Scott Galloway · 59:31
Yeah, of New York.
Kara Swisher · 59:31
I just interviewed a very famous economist, Mariana Matsukato.
Scott Galloway · 59:36
She's not that famous. She's not that famous.
Kara Swisher · 59:38
Who? She is, though.
Scott Galloway · 59:39
What's her name?
Kara Swisher · 59:40
She's working with a lot of people. She's working with a lot... Your name's... She wrote she wrote she wrote lots of books, The Entrepreneurial State. She... Her... One of his arguments is that Apple benefited from all kinds of government, you know, government... And she she... It's it's a really interesting idea that the government has to sign better deals with businesses and human innovation.
Scott Galloway · 59:58
You may not let Apple create a PO Box in the Isle Of Man in
Kara Swisher · 1:00:02
That's addition exactly to your Apple benefited from GPS, benefited from this, all these government investments, and put it together, DARPA. And then government has to sign better contracts with these people.
Scott Galloway · 1:00:11
Oh, could
Kara Swisher · 1:00:12
be part of the innovation moonshots. Like we should put them behind and have a piece of it. Anyway, this is a very fascinating... I think this dog won't hunt, as they say, with the wealth tax, but there are innovative ways to do taxing. There is. And it's not bad, and it's not socialist. It's not this or that. It's just a... This one's not going anywhere.
Scott Galloway · 1:00:28
Not going anywhere. I I think you're right.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:30
I don't know. It's, You know, I I like that Elizabeth Warren is saying they have to pay their fair share. That's a thing she always says. If you listen to her, that's that's her little refrain over and over. It's not a little refrain. It's a big refrain. And and that's her that's her sort of rallying cry. But how they pay their fair share should be... This is not the way it's
Scott Galloway · 1:00:48
gonna happen. She embodies the best and the worst things about progressives, and I include that. I'd like to think of myself as a... She's right, and she's ineffective.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:57
Or wrong in execution.
Scott Galloway · 1:00:58
She's just, she's absolutely right. Billionaires should pay more and she's ineffective. Yeah. And you know what? Her and Charles Schumer and Senator Sanders, inspiring. I agree with them. And they're ineffective. Yeah. But $15 an hour, we want it in fine. And we end up with $7.25. Yeah. Because he couldn't figure out a way to get Joe Manchin to agree to 11 or 12. Yeah. Great. Great. You're right. You're right. It's a travesty. And here we are at $7.25.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 1:01:24
I'm judging is that gonna work these days. You gotta really just get shit done. That's what I say.
Scott Galloway · 1:01:29
GSD. GSD.
Kara Swisher · 1:01:31
Get shit done. That's
Scott Galloway · 1:01:32
what we do. Thank God for the joy and emotional reward you recognize from our partnership. Thank God. Thank I'm sorry,
Kara Swisher · 1:01:39
but I I gotta tell you, I'm going to work for Tidal now in Square. I don't even know what they're doing. Oh my
Scott Galloway · 1:01:46
God. Does that make...
Kara Swisher · 1:01:48
No. Let's just get back to that. What? Just say what? Seriously. Alright. Seriously, Anyway, we'll be back on Tuesday. We have Kevin Roose on Monday talking to us about his new book, Future Shock. And I wanna say it just like that, because with lots of exclamation points. He's gonna talk about that, and we will talk about these issues and stuff like Maybe he can explain Tidal too.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:10
We'll also talk about the SPAC that you and I are forming, the proceeds of which we will use to buy the lifetime rights of Tom Petty, the greatest American rock and You roll artist
Kara Swisher · 1:02:20
know, I... Why don't we do like a total scam, like the STNG, and start a SPAC and then just run away with all the money and see if they can catch us? What do you think? I think it's a great idea.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:29
Yeah. That that sounds... I like the idea of do
Kara Swisher · 1:02:32
like a fire festival for SPACs.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:34
Like the idea of being A, on the run and B, being on the run with Kara Swisher.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:40
Yeah. We stay at very nice hotels.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:42
Yeah. Would laugh. We were smuggled out of Tokyo in a music box of because
Kara Swisher · 1:02:47
we're not unusual looking. What a pair we would You roll up
Scott Galloway · 1:02:50
with Carlos Ghosn in Lebanon. And I'll be like, Jesus Christ, this partnership I didn't work out
Kara Swisher · 1:02:54
think we should start a SPAC. I think we should start a COIN. I think we should start a SPAC. I know you're involved in SPACs. I know.
Scott Galloway · 1:03:00
I am. I'm involved in SPACs.
Kara Swisher · 1:03:02
You and Joanna Coles are SPAC ing it up behind my back.
Scott Galloway · 1:03:05
Joanne's a gangster. Smart.
Kara Swisher · 1:03:07
She's SPAC er. She's like, she texted me the other day. She's like, oh, on my second SPAC. I'm like, do you mean you're sick? When did you get a second SPAC? Everyone has a SPAC. Joanna's Joanna's has a SPAC. She's on
Scott Galloway · 1:03:19
my personal advisory board. If I have a big decision to make, I call Joanna.
Kara Swisher · 1:03:22
Really?
Scott Galloway · 1:03:23
Yeah. Don't know. She's also given to it. I mean, I call her for bigger decisions than this, but one of the decisions I've called her about is I need a fashion makeover. In one of the, I'm in this stage where I just have absolutely no sense of like fashion identity. That's the bad news. The good news is I think I'm going grow out of it in about thirty or forty years. Yeah. Would describe my fashion You're
Kara Swisher · 1:03:44
going be decked out in leather when this pandemic ends and that's not going be a good situation for everyone.
Scott Galloway · 1:03:48
Fashion sense could be described as aging skateboarder. Yeah. And I need to move to something else, and she's She's helping helping me. Her and her and George Hahn are gonna dress Oh,
Kara Swisher · 1:03:58
George Hahn. That's good. Yeah. No. Gonna dress They're... But they... I don't know, Scott. I think you should stick with what you know. I have the same shoes for high school. The problem. I have this... I stick with the same exact pricing.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:09
The... I don't know.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:10
I never change. It's good... It's a good look, and I like
Scott Galloway · 1:04:13
Your fashion sense works for me. I'm I'm not sure it works for you, and I'm sure it doesn't work for me.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:18
Teenage boy. That's what I... That's how I dress too.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:20
11 year old boy.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:21
11 year old boy. We'll be... I'm actually wearing my kids 11 year old boy t shirts right now.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:26
That's sweet.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:27
We'll be... No. It's just... I like them. They're nice. They're from Tarjay, speaking of which. Anyway, we'll be back on Tuesday. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit your questions for the podcast. The link is also in our show notes. Scott, read us out.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:39
Today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Ernie Indratut engineered this episode. Thanks also to Hana Rosen and Drew Burrows. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. If you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like the show, please recommend it to a friend. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for a breakdown of all things tech and business. Title acquired by Square. Yeah. That makes just... That just makes a a hell of lot of sense. Just eat it. Lot of sense, Jack. Way to go. Hey, Twitter board. Hey, Twitter board. Wake the fuck up and show up with a big question mark at the next board meeting. They won't.
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Kara Swisher · 1:06:13
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Scott Galloway · 1:06:13
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