Kara Swisher · 56:59
Meme stock. That is the only win this will have, and then she'll be rich, I guess, and she should sell right away.
Scott Galloway · 57:04
Yeah. I think the Meme stock thing is... Do you realize people have now lost more money in Meme stocks than
Kara Swisher · 57:09
they've made? Of course, they have. But someone's always on the other end winning that trade. So Yeah. And it would be Elon and and his bunch of cronies. So that's the only plus I see. Anyway, thank you for your question.
Scott Galloway · 57:21
But come on our podcast at camp.
Kara Swisher · 57:23
Listen up. We're going to be answering lots of your listener mail in the upcoming months. So if you got a question of your own that you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
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— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 58:57
You did get in hot water for one of your tweets this week. If you'd like to address it, if you don't, please don't on this topic. You're talking about Democrats and trans issues.
Scott Galloway · 59:06
I'm happy to talk about it. Do you wanna talk about it?
Kara Swisher · 59:08
Sure. Go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 59:10
So I think the tweet was on the line.
Kara Swisher · 59:12
Start by saying, first of all, you're not transphobic. I thought this was a stupid tweet, but you are not transphobic. Go ahead. Move on.
Scott Galloway · 59:18
Alright. Thanks. I think.
Kara Swisher · 59:21
So people were calling you transphobic. It's not
Scott Galloway · 59:22
true. Oh, yeah. That was the go to. You're transphobic. Yeah. So Austin Killips, a trans woman, won the Belgian waffle race on Saturday. That's a 131 mile course that runs through the Blue Ridge Mountains, and the number two rider came in four and a half minutes behind her.
Kara Swisher · 59:39
And
Scott Galloway · 59:40
what my tweet was, and I hope I don't get it wrong, because obviously Twitter's not a place for Nuance, I said that unless Democrats condemn trans women athletes competing at this elite level, it will impair our ability to advocate for transgender rights. And I think what's happening here, Kara, is that in an in an attempt to be empathetic, in an attempt to fight for the rights of a group that has been marginalized and has been persecuted, in my view, we have kind of lost our minds and that ideologically the snake is eating its own tail. Now what do I mean by that? If you think about, male physiology, I mean, it comes right down to is if you look at most of the studies to summarize them, men are physically stronger. Yeah. Women are emotionally and mentally stronger, even at a childhood age. Like, girls girls can survive divorce, with much better outcomes than boys. But, anyways, there's just no comparison. And what we have decided to do when we let people who are born as males compete in these races after they have gone through puberty where you pour testosterone over a a bigger, larger muscle mass and greater bone density and skeletal infrastructure, I think you end up with misogyny. And that is that the entire world of elite sports, all of the camaraderie, all of the money, all of the scholarships, all of the relevance, all of the accolades, the confidence, all of these wonderful things are about to be slowly but surely sequestered to one group, and that is people born with penises. And I believe that any any transgender girl who wants to play on her volleyball team, I'd like to think that every school district would would let that happen. And people will say, well, it's a zero sum game. That means some deserving Mhmm. Person born, you know, born with a vagina doesn't get to play. And I'd be like, you know, at that level, it's worth it. The empathy, the humanity, it's worth it. To to help that person who has probably faced a shit ton of discrimination incorporate into society, it's worth it. When you get to the elite level and you start talking about college scholarships, this is where we're headed. Unless we have at a certain level involving money and scholarships, unless we say, look. You're either born with a vagina or you're gonna play... Or you're gonna be in another... A separate category. But the notion that we are going to start having people with at six foot five and the wingspan of Michael Phelps, who, by the way, still have a penis and testicles, compete in the NC two a swim meet. This is nothing but us going way too far. And in a misguided attempt to say to get our bona fides around progressiveness are hurting women. And there needs to be some nuance here, but this is my prediction. Every major athletic organization around the world is gonna gonna justifiably and fairly move to the following. You either... Wherever the gender you go through puberty or the gender you're born with, you are going to compete in that sport. The governing bodies of sports and athletic associations around the world are gonna move to a more definitive regulation that says, if you are born with a penis, you need to compete in one of two categories, either men's or some new category. I don't want to say other because that sounds disparaging, but I don't believe that we're going to have any sort of competitive sports at an elite level that allows, people born with, a penis and go through puberty with testosterone to compete. They will see that this is a bit of a zero sum game, and our efforts to be empathetic for this community have ended up backfiring us and then ended up in certain situations that I believe actually sequester something wonderful, and that is elite sports from people who, from from people who are born as female. And I think that there's been enough instances and enough productive conversation such that we can have compassion and recognize that young people who go through gender affirmation should absolutely be on their high school teams. Should afford them humanity grace and a certain amount, you know, additional generosity. They've had to put up with so much shit. But when it comes to this, I think common sense is going to weigh in here.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:33
Okay, I get that. Go ahead. Can I
Scott Galloway · 1:04:35
Anyways, I just? And immediately, people start calling you transphobic.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:39
They did.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:39
And I'm like, this isn't transphobic. You know who I'm advocating for? Not only women, but I'm advocating... I believe our ability to advocate for the LGBTQ community and the transgender community is diminished because people people think, well, this hateful transgender legislation is ridiculous and stupid, but the Democrats have lost their fucking minds.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:01
Alright. Let me just say, I don't think they've lost their fucking minds. But... And I I think it's not all Democrats. I think it's a very complex situation to to to navigate. One of the... One person did point out to you quite correctly, these are the rules of this federation, so they're gonna have to change wrong. Well, they... That... I'm just saying their rules. Let's not focus on the athlete themselves because they're they're all playing by the rules. So let me just say... I would like to just read, the woman who came in second. The woman who came in second. Said a transgender athlete won the women's overall, which caused some controversy. Those following women's road cycling are aware of the UCI rule that is currently allowed. Rather than sharing my personal opinions about the UCI rule, I think it's most important to recognize that all athletes, no matter how they identify, should have a space to compete and race. Additionally, underneath all helmets is a face of a person who deserves respect, dignity, and a safe space to ride bikes. In the future, I feel a separate category may be appropriate, but event promoters are also learning what is best to preserve both female cycling while also creating an inclusive space for all to ride. These things take both time and grace to resolve, and she plans to continue to support and attend events in the future as I trust they will navigate this with respect for all riders going forward. I thought that was literally the best response. Because I think what's... The reason I think your tweet was stupid is because these... The people... You're playing into a right wing trope to make people angry constantly. And so I think you... The context of what you were talking about it in, it's just the context is you're... These people are trying to anger and upset people, and you did you did... The New York Post among them constantly puts these stories as if it's the biggest problem in our world. And I think what happens is that it it gets... This issue is... It gets overblown to a point where everyone then pays attention to it, if that makes sense. And so I think what you didn't note was the context you're operating in, a group of cynical, awful, cruel, hateful people are using this to push buttons. And perhaps if you had said, I know this is being used by the right to upset and... But let's have a discussion about it. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, let's remember what the athlete who came in second was. Let's have some kind of grace to this. This grace and
Scott Galloway · 1:07:12
Oh, 100%. And I gotta be honest, Carrie, your comments that I'm inflaming people and making this worse is very hurtful. And I'm not saying you don't deserve to say that or you're not accurate, but rattles me to think that.
Kara Swisher · 1:07:25
Well, think... No. You're not inflaming them, these right wing people. You're in... You're lit... I don't think you're inflaming them. I think you're you're in a context where it's inflammatory, and you have to be aware of the... I don't think you are inflaming them by any means. Let me just be clear. I think the right wing is this group of cynical grievance grifters, and they're trying to make people angry and divided. And when you're in that environment, you have to be very careful about what you say and write because... And I'm not talking about, like, not saying what you think because you should be able to say this, and it's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. I I do think that if you're in that environment, you absolutely have to be aware of the people that are trying to play you. And because you're a nice person, you know, that's where you get played the most ultimately. You should engage on these issues with people who actually are being thoughtful. Anyway, we'll see. But I do see where the anger's coming from, Scott. Look at the ridiculous attacks on Dylan Mulvaney. Ridiculous.
Scott Galloway · 1:08:20
I get it. But if you look at... Actually, though, but if you look at the Twitter feed, it was a fairly productive discussion. For most mean, some people immediately Yeah. You know, called me a transphobe or other people said, well, you know, this is... And said some hateful things. But for the most part, people said had an interesting conversation around different levels and different... What the NC two A's rules are and what would be the best rule. And the fact that Martina Navratilova has been very outspoken on this issue. But the question is, how do you ensure as progressives and or just as empathetic Americans that you can be a really robust and effective advocate for these people? And I think that involves a certain dose of adult realities and common sense.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:01
Agreed. But I think what they're doing is trying to make it. They're burning everything down so we can't... There's no way to meet in the middle. That's... It's just...
Scott Galloway · 1:09:08
But we give them the matches when we face... When we refuse to own up to adult realities.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:14
That is a 100%. You're right. But I'm I'm... All I'm saying is the context is what matters. It's... That's all that's all. That's all. Think it's fair Okay. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.
— Predictions segment ends —
Scott Galloway · 1:09:23
But you hurt my feelings with spatial computing.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:26
Computing. That's what you're really more mad about that I loved it. We're out for the holiday weekend, but Tuesday, we've got a great interview with Sundar Pichai from Decoder's Neelai Patel. Then we'll be back with a vengeance because we are broadcasting live from France River
Scott Galloway · 1:09:40
Avenue. We
Kara Swisher · 1:09:41
will have chicks. Wait. One of us will survive. The hawk will kill one of us. That is what's gonna happen on our show, and it's not gonna be me.
Scott Galloway · 1:09:49
What happened to Kara? Taken by a hawk. No. But it was awesome to see. Was awesome to
Kara Swisher · 1:09:55
so good for you. It is like you would be little pieces of hawk bait or whatever it is. We're gonna chitty chat. We're gonna have questions from the audience, and there'll be French people there. And and we will have debates and things like that, and we're very excited to do it, and we're very thrilled to do it at ConLions, which we both enjoy. And there'll be there'll be rose. There will be rose.
Scott Galloway · 1:10:16
That's fine.
Kara Swisher · 1:10:16
By the way,
Scott Galloway · 1:10:17
it's Cannes. Just say it's Cannes. Okay. Don't try and be French. It's just Cannes. It's just Cannes. Cannes. Cannes. Cannes
Kara Swisher · 1:10:23
Lyons. It's Connus Lyons. We'll be there on the main stage on Wednesday at 04:30 if you're there. Please come see us.
Scott Galloway · 1:10:30
There you go.
Kara Swisher · 1:10:30
Alright. Read us out, Scott.
Scott Galloway · 1:10:32
Today's show is produced by Lara Naaman, Taylor Griffin, Ernie Intratot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Emil Severio. Send us your listener questions. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, I will see you in France. The hawks are waiting. The rose is waiting. The dog will be in a big, big robe with sunglasses. I'll be the guy flirting with everybody and ordering $45 truffle cheese fries.
Kara Swisher · 1:11:07
Oh, are you gonna wear a Speedo? Is there a Speedo? No. Is there a Speedo?
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