Pivot · Feb 28, 2020

Bob Iger exits — what’s going on at Disney? The stock market takes a coronavirus hit. PLUS Is “coffee” a disruptable industry?

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 42:33. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Kara Swisher · 42:33 Industry who enabled him, even journalists who covered it. Know a lot of journalists tried to get this story. I talked to a number of them who are always trying to get it for years. And so I think what I want to know is where the other stories like this are and why we need to get to them faster. So I really I really thought that was that was that was a great moment for a lot of people. And and at the same time, Harvey Weinstein is in jail where he he so deserves to be. So that is my Yeah. Scott Galloway · 43:01 But the glass is to your first half the glass is half full here, because your fail around it taking too long, it's about to take less long because this will establish precedent. It'll give a lot of district attorney and prosecutors the confidence to go after these cases, whereas before, they would say, These are very hard allegations to prove. And you're gonna see a lot of DAs dust off their desks and their pencils and start revisiting cases. So I have a question for you around win or fail. Mhmm. Did you hear the NBC interview of Sheryl Sandberg? Kara Swisher · 43:32 I did. Scott Galloway · 43:33 Win or fail? Kara Swisher · 43:35 I would not say a win. You know, it was fine. You know, she she did her stock answers. You know, I had a tough interview with Steven Levy who wrote the book, and he and I... You know, in in a lot of ways... Let me go to the book first because that's what it was based around. Was was a very good book to know things. You found out things about Mark that I knew a lot of them, but, again, I... It was it was full... In any other time, it would have been a very nice book about Facebook. Right? Scott Galloway · 44:00 Right. Kara Swisher · 44:00 But I... He and I had a back and forth about access journalism and the and the and the price you pay for that. And in terms of, you know, what people at Facebook were like, this is a book we can give to people to explain what we are. And I'm like, that's a bad thing. You know? You know? You don't want them to give this book to people. And so I was... You know? And, again, it was... Some of the reporting was super interesting and and and revelatory when Steven didn't mean it. He and I did have an argument about... He said he was showing, not telling. I'm like, in this case, things have changed. You have to tell. He did a good job keeping up with me and and get... Me giving him a hard time, and I think he's a very good journalist. But it... Journalism has changed. And, again, back to Jorge Ramos. He was like, you can't just be a typer of information or a sayer of information. You have to really start to come to conclusions and speak truth to power. And so that backdrop, I don't feel like that interview spoke truth to power. And I don't know what I would do in an interview with Sheryl right now, and you know I like Sheryl personally. But I definitely would have been a lot harder on her and demanded her to get off her talking points. I don't fault her for staying on her talking points because that's what, you know, that's what you do. But I do... You have to at least go there with these people. I'm not sure you I don't know what I would do in that interview, but it was not a... I don't think it was a successful interview. But again, I don't fault Cheryl for doing what she does, which is go to talking points. What is she gonna do, suddenly break down and say, yes, it was all me? Right. You know, I don't know. What do you think? Scott Galloway · 45:22 So spoke John Battelle, who's a friend and teaches a class at the School of Journalism at Columbia, he does these classes. And I spoke at his class last night. And I think that interview she did should be a case study in communications because I think it was access journalism. I just don't think there's any way. I think they basically said, okay. What's involved here? You want an interviewer? It's obviously an incredible get. And I I don't know how this works. Maybe you do. But somebody at Facebook said, we would like... Oh, you wanna ask about Sheryl's engagement? We would like that, and we'd like to start with that because she Kara Swisher · 46:00 don't do that. They don't do that. Scott Galloway · 46:01 Well, okay. Why on earth he starts off? Tell me... So you're engaged? Kara Swisher · 46:06 Yeah. I don't know. You're engaged. Establish What? A relationship. Scott Galloway · 46:09 You know? She goes through a series of talking points about how we need to take decision making on relationships back for young women, and I decided to ask him. And we went on a mountaintop, and I used to pray scrabble with my husband, and I was worried and sometimes sitting at the counter about growing old alone. Kara Swisher · 46:26 All this stuff is... Get...... Right thing for right now. Scott Galloway · 46:29 It's very poignant. It's very gripping, and it's all been tested. I... What's the opposite of a trigger, a likability point? And I started listening to this thing, and about seventeen minutes in, I just couldn't take it anymore. And in the mother of all, like, awkward segues in the reporter goes, so in the book, it says you're control freak obsessed with your image and that you yell at your direct reports. And it was sort of this very awkward segue, but it just felt very... I I just kept thinking that term access journalism. Kara Swisher · 46:59 You know, think sometimes you you you try to establish rapport with someone who, you know, who you... Actually, Casey Newton of The Verge had a really good thing. It's one of the tricks that Cheryl has is saying she's nervous before interviews to the journalist to feel like she's vulnerable, which is I I thought was interesting. You know, again, I don't... I I just... It's the journalist's job here to not do that. I think you try to establish rapport in the beginning. I have a different thing depending on the person. Sometimes people are like, oh, you're gonna get them, Kara. Scott Galloway · 47:25 Sometimes I sweater. You feel their sweater. I just I Kara Swisher · 47:28 I sometimes do things like that. But I do... I'll I'll tell you. One of the... You either have to sort of establish dominance right away or you have to sort of push them off their game or ask a very strange question to make them confused. I have all kind... Depends on the person. And sometimes, like, with this Jorge Ramos, I just like him. And so I'm not gonna... There's no reason to attack him. But I I I went right to Trump with him because what... Why else would I talk about anything? Like, because he had that back and forth and what was going on. And so I tend to go right for the actual thing, which is... My first question to Cheryl would be, if she ever ever did another interview with me again, would be, when are you leaving Facebook? Because I think you're leaving Facebook. And I would I would state it. I'd say many... I wouldn't say many people think. I'd say, I think you're going to leave Facebook and trying to find a a good exit strategy here. So let's talk about that. And I think I would just say it out loud. And I think Cheryl could take it, and I think she would actually give a much better answer. I think by doing this back... Backing into it things that people... The reporters tend to do in interviews, it never it never succeeds, and you let them go on. And I... Last thing is sometimes you do let them go on. I think my interview with Mark was so successful because I let him go on, but I knew what I was doing. I was like... I was letting him further make a problem for himself around, in this case, Holocaust deniers. But I often slap back real hard and then see what they can do. Sometimes I say something just very tough to them and then see what they do. But I I don't tend to like to do the, so you're getting married, that kind of personal stuff up top. I think that's... And in that case, if I was asking her, and I would like to hear her answer because I don't agree with you. I don't think it was it was as tested as you think it is. Scott Galloway · 49:10 Yep. You would know. I don't I don't Kara Swisher · 49:11 I don't I don't think it is. I don't... I'm I'm pretty... It's not... Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. But it wasn't as much as you think it is. Yeah. And so I would say, look. A lot of people think that was a PR stunt. I... Can you... Is it? Like, is it? Like, let... Let's have your answer that. And I think seeing what's everyone's thinking is... And owning you saying it versus saying many people say and that kind of stuff is what I tend to do. And in this case, I think right now, Facebook is facing a lot of big issues, and I think starting with her marriage is not something I would do right now. And I'm I'm very happy that she's getting married. I'm happy she's found love. And... But I don't think I would do that. And, Cheryl did her job. Right? Like, don't think I don't I don't fault her for doing her talking points. Scott Galloway · 49:52 Not that was brilliant. It's gonna be... There's gonna be... Not only... There's one case study there, and then there's another case study, and that is we have these inanimate legal entities called corporations, and we like to think they're people. They're not. And what investor relations departments try to do is they try and personify the company because if the company is likable, it gets another one to three times EBITDA. It is the most accretive thing you can do is to have Tim Cook be likable and talk about Alabama football. Where did he go? You know, they all have their favorite teams and they talk about, you know, go hide or whatever. And they, you know, talk about their kayaking and the charity work they do, or they talk about Ted Turner's Maverick nature or Richard Branson's just Yeah. Just incredible crazy side, and they, like, put him in a wedding dress. Sheryl Sandberg has taken it to a new level. The personification, her brand of likability, her discussion of her her her her loss and her viewpoints, important discussions around other issues. We've never seen an executive personify a brand or at least attempt to personify or or it's just gone to an absolutely different level. And I wonder if I wonder if it sort of hit peak personification. I wonder if Kara Swisher · 51:05 people are of. Going on forever, Steve Jobs. And and if you go back Scott Galloway · 51:08 to Edison mean, Jobs' personal life was kept pretty personal, Kara Swisher · 51:11 wasn't it? But he he... Yeah. Sort of. Sort of. I mean, I think just you wanna you wanna link the person to the company. I mean, I think that's been... The CEO fandomness has been going on forever. And Elon Musk, come on. It's all over the place. Scott Galloway · 51:22 No. I'm saying, but has it ever gone to this extent? Kara Swisher · 51:25 Don't I think Cheryl's even close. I think Elon would be. I'd I'd pick Elon. There's lots of people. Or or or Lee Iacocca or whatever. I... You know, I get I get that. I get the concept concept. But in this case, I I I would have done a different interview. And when I do interviews, I tend to try to say the the the the the obvious part out loud. And I think that's... Reporters have to do that and not worry about. And one of... And I'll end on this because we gotta go is... Jorge Ramos again said one of the things that when I do interviews... He was asking me how I do interviews. He said, when I do interviews, I assume I'm never gonna talk to them again. That's how I go into the interview because they are gonna be mad at me or whatever. I just don't assume I want a long term relationship, and I don't pull back anything because I don't care if I get thrown out of the room. And I think that's exactly the right way to go these days, especially. Same thing with that book. He had to come to conclusions that he didn't, and he... And it was it was too bad because he had amazing access. And if... And he didn't come to conclusions at the end of it, really, I found disappointing. But, you know, whatever. So that's it. — Predictions segment begins — Scott Galloway · 52:23 So do you have a prediction? Kara Swisher · 52:25 No. I don't have any... I don't predict things. I don't have a predict. Scott Galloway · 52:27 You gotta start. Kara Swisher · 52:29 I predict. I'm gonna... I I predict I'm gonna buy you a cashmere sweater so we can go to relationship. Scott Galloway · 52:34 Loro Piano is what the big dog likes to roll in. Kara Swisher · 52:38 That's right. No. Cuccinelli? Not a Cuccinelli? I hate some rich guy go. That's good as butter. Was saying I liked someone's outfit, he's like, ugh. It's probably Bruno Cucinelli. Like, I was like, okay. Like, what? I didn't know the whole the whole stratosphere of sweater wearing expense for men. Scott Galloway · 52:53 Now, L'Oreal Piano is sort of your Italian and you've inherited money. Bruno Cucinelli is you bought it at an outlet. Okay. But it's still amazing. Anyways, so I have a prediction. Alright. Quick. If over a million people are diagnosed with the coronavirus in The US, and I'm praying that doesn't happen, Nikki Haley is gonna be vice president. Kara Swisher · 53:17 Oh, okay. That's been out there. Scott Galloway · 53:20 Pence is being set up as a fall guy. Kara Swisher · 53:22 I can't believe I... If I had to stack rank them, I like Pence better. Jesus. Scott Galloway · 53:26 Versus Nikki Haley? Kara Swisher · 53:27 Oh, god. She's such a suck up. Scott Galloway · 53:30 Governor Haley? She's good. Kara Swisher · 53:31 Haley. Like, oh, come on. She's been saying the most ridiculous things in order to suck up to Trump. It's gross. Scott Galloway · 53:36 Yeah. It's Kara Swisher · 53:37 And she was... She's smart. Pence, I think, is just like an empty vessel of of nothing and just kind of dumb, and she's not. And so that pisses me off. Scott Galloway · 53:44 Talk about literally the the mother of all no win jobs. I mean, it's just like Kara Swisher · 53:50 He's so dumb. He just literally handed Scott Galloway · 53:52 it me. Kara Swisher · 53:53 He had two minutes. Scott Galloway · 53:53 Is there upside? Is he gonna get any credit? Are they gonna be like, oh, he... It's just... Anyways, that is just... Okay. It's like, again, it's like, remember those... Did you see Chernobyl? Those firefighters are like, can you go into the mine and get the get the uranium out? Oh. Anyways... Yeah. So I think Nikki Haley, I Kara Swisher · 54:11 think Alright. Okay. Must be rumor. That's a big old rumor got running around. So let's just see. Anyway, Scott, we have to go, but I wanna do a shout out to Abby Weiss who wrote us. I'm enriched and challenged by Pivot. However, since the iPhone episode, my boyfriend calls it the yelling podcast. I can't listen when he's in the house. — Predictions segment ends — Scott Galloway · 54:29 Thank you. I have I have another shout out. We... Kara Swisher · 54:33 Okay. Scott Galloway · 54:33 Okay. So winning strategy, just play to the dog's narcissism. Terry Kowadja created prop g bingo and distributed a bingo card. So let's play prop g bingo. We have a gestalt here of consensual hallucination despite the fact Kara and her dreamy hair constantly yells, boom. I I I weaponize or I feel with my access to cheap capital, the big doc can get Netflix or Pope Lansialis. That is prop g bingo. That's a bingo. Terry Kwaja, my Twitter profile, sent out a bingo card. So thank you, Terry. Kara Swisher · 55:07 Oh my god. Chipotle. Cialis. There you go. You go. There's gangster on there? Scott Galloway · 55:13 I have to look. Are you kidding? How could it not be? Kara Swisher · 55:15 I was tiny writing. I haven't been able to pull it up on a regular computer. Scott Galloway · 55:19 It made my day. That was really Kara Swisher · 55:20 nice of Thank you, Terry. Carrie Kawaja does some very funny things. Anyway, remember, we love your questions. If you have a question about a story you're hearing in the news, email us at pivot@voxmedia.com to be featured on the show. Thank you again, Abby Weiss, and we will continue yelling and keep your boyfriend. Scott Galloway · 55:35 Kara, have a wonderful weekend. Kara Swisher · 55:37 Thank You Scott Galloway · 55:37 deserve it. I was thinking about what a good person and a good mother you are. You deserve a wonderful weekend. I'm gonna surround you with white light weekend light. Kara Swisher · 55:45 I'm away from my kids. I miss them all. It's terrible. But I'm going to a creativity conference called the Box Sessions that Laura Holson, a New York Times reporter, is running. And I'm actually interviewing Alex Berg from Silicon Valley and top HBO. Scott Galloway · 55:57 What kind of bullshit is that? I'm taking Eric and Kara Swisher · 55:59 I'm gonna Scott Galloway · 55:59 play with... Let me get... You're gonna play with Legos. Kara Swisher · 56:01 Eric Anderson and I are gonna go and get creative. That's what we're gonna do in the mountains of beauty of near Santa Cruz. It's very exciting. We're excited. Scott Galloway · 56:08 That sounds nice. Take your vape. Kara Swisher · 56:09 We've... Did you not get your invitation? Oh, I'm sorry. Scott Galloway · 56:12 They only had 1,100 people. I'm 11 o one. Kara Swisher · 56:15 That's true. Listen to me. Read the credits, and we gotta go. Scott Galloway · 56:18 Today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Our executive producer is Erica Anderson, and special thanks to Rebecca Castro Castro and Drew Burrows. [Ad break] Scott Galloway · 57:32 See store [Ad break]

Didn’t happen

Resolved 2020

Pivot #85 · Aired Feb 28, 2020

Mike Pence will be blamed as a scapegoat ('fall guy') for the US government's handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

Pence can't be Trump's coronavirus fall guy if Trump won't give up the spotlightwashingtonpost.com

3 more sources

How we graded it

Counts as true if: Evidence (news coverage, political commentary, administration actions) that Pence is publicly scapegoated for failures in the coronavirus response.

While some commentators floated the 'fall guy' framing right after Pence's appointment, Trump himself remained the dominant public face and primary target of blame for the pandemic response throughout 2020, as he overshadowed Pence in briefings and media coverage. Blame was also diffused across the CDC and task force infighting rather than concentrated on Pence, and there was no event where Pence was singled out or sacrificed as a scapegoat. By the end of 2020, Pence remained VP and ran on the ticket, meaning the prediction that he'd be used as a scapegoat did not materialize as stated.

Researched and graded by AI on Oct 13, 2026

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