Pivot · Feb 4, 2022

Listeners Sound Off on Spotify, Big Tech's Winners & Losers, and CNN’s Jeff Zucker is Out

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 54:36. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Scott Galloway · 54:36 I hope for both of them. I hope they have a wonderful relationship full of love and mutual support and that it was worth this, the terrible judgment they have demonstrated and the ramifications were worth it. And guess what? Jeff Zucker at the age of 56 in a world of a lot of media companies with a lack of direction, Jesus Christ, you wanna talk about a Yeah, Kara Swisher · 54:58 he's gonna get Scott Galloway · 54:58 this This isn't even a speed bump for that guy. CNN is the loser here. Kara Swisher · 55:03 Yep, he's an interesting fellow. I once had it, he asked me to have dinner for him in Silicon Valley, which... To meet people very early. Another person who was very early. Bob Iger, him, and others. So he's he's an interesting character. I'll tell you that. He's not the easiest person to talk to. Scott Galloway · 55:17 Let me ask you. What's the Over Under? My show never gets to episode one after this? Kara Swisher · 55:21 Well, you know, it's not because of you being naked or saying something untoward, so that's a good thing. That's a good move. Someone else. Scott Galloway · 55:28 You can sleep on my couch anytime. Kara Swisher · 55:29 Someone else. You can sleep on my couch anytime. Cable is in a real crisis, I think. It's interesting. I think they should go to more reporting. Scott Galloway · 55:35 Oh, you're saying? Kara Swisher · 55:35 I think they should go to more reporting, more less of this, like, opinion journalism, really. Like, this... Like, have some facts. Let's bring some real reporters in and stuff like that. Interestingly, another problem over to MSM Who Scott Galloway · 55:47 has more facts on cable than CNN? Who has more facts Kara Swisher · 55:51 on cable than way too far. Scott Galloway · 55:52 They need to move to subscription, and they're doing it.... Kara Swisher · 55:54 Veered way too far into the blabbery. Anyway... And it's cheap blabbery. I think that they did. Rachel Maddow is taking a brief hiatus from her MSNBC show. Think it's probably more than brief. So that... Cable's really in Scott Galloway · 56:05 a Really? What do know? Kara Swisher · 56:07 Nothing. I don't know. She doesn't speak to me. She's not a lesbian who speaks to me. I talk to all the lesbians. Not her. Not her. Scott Galloway · 56:13 A species called lesbians that don't speak to you? Kara Swisher · 56:15 Yeah. That... She's it. No. They all do Scott Galloway · 56:17 except that. She's a genius. I still watch her just to learn. Kara Swisher · 56:19 Yeah. Well, she's not. She's doing other things. She's moved on. She's been on a movie with Ben Stiller. She's got a lot of things going on, Rachel. She's... Really? She does. Yeah. There's all kinds of things. I think she's just like, this is like I'd like to be friends Scott Galloway · 56:32 with both her and Ben Stiller. I'd love to [Ad break] Kara Swisher · 56:34 on is always like liking tweets of mine. So I like Ben... Ben, call us. We love you. We love you. We think you're very good. Scott Galloway · 56:41 So wait. Just for a moment. I think it's important to get back to me. In every fucking article about CNN plus Yes. They're they're bringing over big names. Kara Swisher · 56:48 Yes. Oh, how does Scott Galloway · 56:49 Chris Wallace and Anderson Cooper. And then they always say, and and a lot of interesting new talent, Rex Chapman. Kara Swisher · 56:55 They never mention you, I know that. Scott Galloway · 56:57 They never mention me. I'm literally, Kara? Kara Swisher · 57:00 They never. Scott Galloway · 57:00 I am invisible. I feel like I feel as if I'm living in Manhattan, and I'm a woman over the age of 45 or a guy that makes less than $500,000 a year. I'm invisible. I'm invisible. I'm literally invisible. Kara Swisher · 57:13 I am excited for your debut on CNN Plu. We'll see where it goes. Anything could happen, Scott. Someday, you're gonna be... Have a TV show. Someday. Someday, your ship will come in. Who knows? Scott Galloway · 57:25 Oh, and I love it there. They're so nice, and they're so good at what they do. Kara Swisher · 57:28 Poor Scott. Let's take it back to you. Scott Galloway · 57:30 They're so nice. Kara Swisher · 57:30 Does get you? Getting fired come back to Scott. How is Scott Galloway · 57:35 100%. That's what everyone's wondering about. Kara Swisher · 57:37 Nobody's wondering about it. By the way, Roxane What a heroic move, Roxane Gay. Gay. Anyway, on Spotify. Alright. Scott, Scott Galloway · 57:44 what? And Mary Trump. Kara Swisher · 57:45 Mary Trump. Scott Galloway · 57:45 She gets literally... She gets 700 downloads, and there's there's articles to everyone. They're like, Mary Trump is leaving Spotify. Kara Swisher · 57:52 The gays win. The lesbians. Scott Galloway · 57:55 And all I get is all I get is you really don't know who Joni Mitchell is? Kara Swisher · 57:59 I'm just telling you. Scott Galloway · 58:00 That that is all I've been getting for Kara Swisher · 58:01 last four years. Lesbians. I'm just giving that piece of advice in life. Okay. Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. [Ad break] — Predictions segment begins — Kara Swisher · 59:13 Okay, Scott. On to predictions. First, something we unfortunately didn't predict on the show, The New York Times bought Wordle. Scott Galloway · 59:19 Do you get that? I don't play Wordle. Do you get it? I don't get that Kara Swisher · 59:21 at It's great. Why don't you play it? It's like takes two seconds. It's like it's in. It's out. It's done. I'm just kidding. It's so satisfying. It's a satisfying little game. I... I've been curious what they're doing. I I've tried to ask questions last night of executives at the time, so they were very tight lipped about what they're gonna do with it. I think they have to not put it behind the paywall. I think they can use it to entice people into their gaming app, which is quite good. But it's interesting. There's a couple other people who could have bought Wordles. I forget who the others were. Scott Galloway · 59:47 It's a great idea. They have subscription around Crosswords. It fits the New York Times. Kara Swisher · 59:51 Yeah. It pulls people in. It's a lovely story. Scott Galloway · 59:54 It's a great acquisition on both ends because I bet it's a couple entrepreneurs, and this is easily the kind of thing they could flash up and flash down really fast. This is a great acquisition for all parties. Kara Swisher · 1:00:04 There's a lot of copies of it. You know, there's Ludle. My brother talks about that because he's a pig. Scott Galloway · 1:00:08 Ludle? Kara Swisher · 1:00:08 Ludle, which is lewd words, such as pivot. Pivot's a five letter word. They could... We should be word of the day, pivot. Don't you think? Scott Galloway · 1:00:15 Yeah. Yeah. No. That's that's what I was thinking about. Kara Swisher · 1:00:17 Hey, Sam Dolnick. Get on it since you bought it. Scott Galloway · 1:00:19 Speaking... Talking out of school, when I was on the board of the New York Times, they recommended that we buy dictionary.com for, like, $300,000,000. And it was, like, my first board meeting. I'm like, what the fuck? We're spending $300,000,000 on dictionary. And Barry Dillard came in and bought it for, like, 400,000,000. I'm like, Jesus Christ. We dodged a Kara Swisher · 1:00:35 bullet That's interesting. Wonder what happened then. Anyway, maybe it makes money. Who knows? Anyway, Scott, prediction, and then we gotta go. This has been a long show. Scott Galloway · 1:00:43 I have a couple. One is... And it has to do with CNN that essentially you're gonna see in the next four quarters Discovery Communications or whatever they're calling the new tie up, is gonna offer all of the calories of streaming and that is massive production costs with none of the great taste of the subscriber growth of WandaVision or Disney plus that kind of fell into The Mandalorian. The stock will throw up, someone will go to Stankey who, quite frankly, just needs to reduce debt Stankey's and free up Kara Swisher · 1:01:16 where all the trouble starts. But go ahead. Scott Galloway · 1:01:19 Well, I didn't, I mean if you look at the actual corporate governance, he still controls the company. He's a 71% shareholder. And we'll go to him and say, hi, how would you like to reduce your debt by $47 10,000,000,000 so you can focus on five gs? Which by the way, is absolutely the right move for him. And someone's gonna buy CNN and or HBO the trophy assets out of the Kara Swisher · 1:01:42 Is Twitter again? Scott Galloway · 1:01:44 No, Twitter now no longer has the market cap and needs to stay focused, I don't think. It'd be an interesting merger idea, but I think actually Twitter's gonna go to a FinTech, but anyways, or Salesforce. So my first prediction is in the in the first four to six quarters Discovery as a public company reporting, their stock will get hammered and someone will approach Stankey and take one or more assets out of it. Because he needs to reduce debt, and there's nothing like a good deal from an orphan from a corporate parent. And I also just don't think, anyways, there's just gonna be a lot of pressure from always, and this does not help. No. This does not help. Kara Swisher · 1:02:24 It might have been one the reasons they wanted to... It'll it'll sort of wrap up the Cuomo thing pretty quickly. Right? What are they gonna say now? We've done everything. Right? Scott Galloway · 1:02:35 Yeah. Yeah. Send send Alfraken back to Minnesota. That that helps progress in the life. Anyways my friend. So my other my other prediction is we're about to see a tripling in real estate in a specific region. Any guess in 2022, we're gonna see a three to five X increase in the value of real estate in this neighborhood. Kara Swisher · 1:03:03 All right. Scott Galloway · 1:03:03 Any ideas? Kara Swisher · 1:03:04 No, what? Tell me. Scott Galloway · 1:03:05 Guess, you Kara Swisher · 1:03:05 wanna guess? I don't wanna guess. Don't guess, I'm not a guess. Scott Galloway · 1:03:07 In the metaverse, specifically like Sandbox Kara Swisher · 1:03:09 you or Scott Galloway · 1:03:12 had in November, real estate purchases in different metaverses were 133,000,000 or up 9x. Boomers have a difficult time assigning value to digital goods. Like we just can't understand how people go on Fortnite and buy skins, just can't understand it, and yet these micro transactions are billions of dollars. You have an entire generation of people who don't have that inability to assign value to virtual goods. You have the veneer or kind of the mythology that real estate makes an outstanding investment, And these players, there's four or five players that are about 80% of the online real estate environment, are doing a really good job of creating scarcity value, they're creating fashion communities that'll have special events and storefronts. And I think that, and I don't like to give advice, I like to tell people what I'm doing. I'm contemplating putting some money, I'm transitioning out of stocks and into real estate just because I like the fact real estate doesn't get marked every day and doesn't cause you digestion and if you don't put a lot of leverage on it and you have a long time horizon, it's generally a pretty good investment and very tax advantaged. I'm actually thinking about putting some money as a bit of a flyer into real estate in the metaverse, you're about and to by the way, it all may come crashing down in 2023, but investing in real estate in the metaverse seems less crazy to me than investing in Solana or some of this Dogecoin. Kara Swisher · 1:04:35 All right, okay. Scott Galloway · 1:04:36 So a you're gonna three to five X plus increase in the value of real estate in this neighborhood called the Metaverse. — Predictions segment ends — Kara Swisher · 1:04:45 Okay, I like it. I have a prediction. Not gonna find out in ten years that Scott and I have been involved in a long term relationship. Scott Galloway · 1:04:53 Oh, that sounds like a cover up. Kara Swisher · 1:04:54 But you're never Scott Galloway · 1:04:55 going That only makes it worse. Kara Swisher · 1:04:56 Going to be disclosed. Scott Galloway · 1:04:57 That only makes it worse. Kara Swisher · 1:04:59 Is... Jim Bangkoff will not have to True or false? Deal with Scott Galloway · 1:05:02 You slept over last night. True or false? Kara Swisher · 1:05:04 Yes. You were not there. I enjoyed your couch. I enjoyed sleeping on your couch. It was fantastic. Scott Galloway · 1:05:08 It is a nice couch, isn't it? It's a great couch. I spent a lot of money on couches, just so you know. I love couches. Kara Swisher · 1:05:13 Well, will be no disclosure in ten years. There will be no disclosure in twenty years. There'll be no disclosure. What's what's even less than platonic? What is what is what is even less charged?... Scott Galloway · 1:05:26 Knows you love the dog. Then platonic.... Knows you love the dog. Kara Swisher · 1:05:31 What is less than platonic? I don't know. I've gotta think about it. Scott Galloway · 1:05:34 You're a nice... I've developed a nice friendship and rapport with you. It's been one of the most rewarding things for me in the last couple years, Carol. Kara Swisher · 1:05:40 And by the way, that's... People should think of... Aside from this sort of debacle over there, people should think relationships. We... We're having this dinner last night with the other Times podcasters. They had all the Times podcasters. I have to say, I was thrilled to to to talk to everybody in person, and it it was done really well, so it was safe for everyone. But I have to say it was just... There was something really lovely about, and intimate about sitting around in a good way, in in talking to people and learning about people in a in a setting. One of the interesting things they did was you had to say something about a grandparent, and I learned so much about people I didn't know, and I felt like I got to know people really well. It was really... It wasn't... It was... There's something great about thinking about a workplace as more than just a place to cash or check, and so I was thinking about that a lot last night as I was walking back to your apartment. Scott Galloway · 1:06:32 There is a lesson here to young people and I had a friend call me and say, I'm thinking about joining a friend I used to work with who was my boss, starting a new company, but I'm loyal to this SaaS company. And that is, I don't buy loyalty to organizations. An organization is a legal entity. You should be loyal to people. And there's certain institutions that play a meaningful role in society. The New York Times, I think CNN is one of them, and I get that. NYU is one of them. But I'm not loyal to NYU, I'm loyal to Peter Henry, I'm loyal to Raghu Sundaram who had been very generous with me. What I advise young people around is like, your loyalty should be to your family, and if the organization is providing economic security and learning, fine, be loyal to them and be grateful. But who the real loyalty should be to is to people. That is who is gonna call you when you're sick. Agreed. That is who's gonna take risks and be good to you when you fuck up. Organizations are legal entities. They are not people. Are not... Be loyal to people, not to organizations. Kara Swisher · 1:07:28 Yeah. But I... People always talk about organizations as family. They're not your family. Was thinking... Because I spent the day with my son, he's my family. Right? But they are something Scott Galloway · 1:07:35 They're your team. They're not your team Kara Swisher · 1:07:37 or not. No. I get that. But there's something more than just coal. It's... There's a relationship, and it's an important one. Work relationships are critically important, and I hadn't had a dinner like that in years. Like, it's... And it really was very, gratifying, I have to say. It was really interesting. Scott Galloway · 1:07:51 So I'm working with Rebecca Culler and Scott Matthews, and if they go somewhere else, I'll always take their call because you know what? They're really talented and really nice. Kara Swisher · 1:07:58 Yep. Yep. So it's a it's a very confusing time, everybody. We are confused ourselves, as you know. In any case... Well, we are. Come on. Be honest. Come on. We hardly make it through the day. Scott Galloway · 1:08:08 I like this compost. Scott, Kara Swisher · 1:08:09 that is the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Read us out. Scott Galloway · 1:08:15 Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Jatot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Organizations are not gonna take care of you when you're older. They are not concerned with the condition of your soul. Be loyal to people. That is the key relationship. [Ad break] Scott Galloway · 1:09:35 tomorrow Kara Swisher · 1:09:35 online Scott Galloway · 1:09:35 for details.

Didn’t happen

Resolved Jun 2022 · about 4 months after it aired

Pivot #274 · Aired Feb 4, 2022

In 2022, the value of real estate in the metaverse (e.g., platforms like The Sandbox) will increase by three to five times.

Should You Buy Metaverse Real Estate Now or Wait?fool.com

3 more sources

How we graded it

Counts as true if: Reported data shows metaverse real estate values (e.g., average parcel prices on platforms like The Sandbox) rose 3x to 5x over the course of 2022.

Galloway predicted a 3-5x increase in metaverse real estate values during 2022, but the opposite happened: The Sandbox land prices fell about 92% (from ~$35,474 to ~$2,766), and Decentraland fell about 88% from its peak, with trading volumes collapsing 97-99% by year-end. Multiple sources (Fool.com, Forbes, The Real Deal, DappRadar) confirm the metaverse real estate market crashed rather than tripled or quintupled in value throughout 2022.

Researched and graded by AI on Oct 13, 2026

4 / 4