Kara Swisher · 58:03
Way underfunded end of life costs. I agree with that. Ziggard, I I know this. I understand this, but I'm talking about renewals that just aren't gonna get us there. And every... I've read study after study after study. They just don't. New tech is absolutely true, and it's something I talked at length with with Vinod Khosla, which will be appearing next week on on with Kara Swisher. He thinks that fusion will get there... Fu... Innovation of fusion will get there faster than the permitting for new nuclear power stations that are safer and better. That said, some of the things that... Like Sam Altman this week, OpenAI, Sam Altman is taking a nuclear energy startup public via SPAC. It's called OCALA. It's valued at $850,000,000. It's called a small modular nuclear reactor that would sell energy using the same kind of agreements wind and solar developers used to make. It's it's... The... This... Some of the innovation in nuclear, I'm very interested in, but I see... I get your point. But it was interesting that Vinod, even though he's also a proponent of of nuclear energy and and innovating in it, he felt like the the permitting and the costs... The beginning costs down would be slower than the new stuff that he's been investing in in lots of ways. He also agreed with it that renewables as they are right now are gonna get us there, but should be done. He's doing all kinds of renewable stuff too. He has lots of investments there. Scott?
Scott Galloway · 59:21
It feels like all of the above. Nuclear power, renewables, more government sponsored research around fission and fusion, a change in lifestyle among individuals. If you look at climate change, the two big puffs of carbon into the atmosphere are, one, the suburbanization of America and our choice around cars. And two, the industrialization of China and their choice around coal. So our energy and our lifestyle choices are a big component. So education around paying more and lowering your own carbon footprint, coordinated global policy. But for God's sakes, should be pursuing all of it. I'm a huge fan of nuclear. I think the really interesting thing about Sam Altman's SPAC around his nuclear investment, it's going to be a really interesting case study on whether the animal spirits are back. Because you have two opposing forces here, and it's going to be really interesting to see who wins. And the first is Sam Altman is probably the best brand in technology right now. I think he's likely going to be Person of the Year in the next two or three years. Because whoever is the wealthiest or whoever increases their wealth the most in technology has a one in three chance of being Time's person of the year because we are fascinated and fetishized technology and their innovators. His brand is really strong. The nuclear brand is really strong. So those are the things in favor of this. What's really negative is this company has no revenues or little revenues, and it's a SPAC. And it's just gonna be fascinating.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:51
It's very early. And nuclear has a bad PR. I mean, not just bad PR,
Scott Galloway · 1:00:55
but Well, I think it's flipping. I think there's
Kara Swisher · 1:00:57
I a would agree. It's interesting that someone was arguing with me, and I said, do you know the damage by by... The damage done by fossil fuels is so vast?
Scott Galloway · 1:01:06
More people have died in Ted Kennedy's car than in nuclear power plants in The United States. I mean, it it
Kara Swisher · 1:01:13
It's a dad joke. I don't even know where that came from.
Scott Galloway · 1:01:16
We could take all nuclear waste ever produced and put it in a six foot high drum that was like two soccer fields. So, like, pick your poison, and people talk about Fukushima. There there is no free lunch here, or there's a very expensive lunch with renewables. And everyone has their favorite strategy. My attitude is let's go hard at all of them, and let's raise a generation of people that get all sorts of interesting tax credits around innovation, and let's figure this shit out, and let's continue to try and recreate the sun, whatever it might be. But, I mean, it's scary to say, and I haven't done it. But one of the best investments you could have made over the last three or four years was to invest in fossil fuel companies, specifically oil companies, because the rumors of their death have been greatly exaggerated.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:03
Look around our climate this past week. We have to get rid of fossil fuels, and we're arguing... It's literally like, you know how, as you were saying, getting people to fight each other versus the real enemy, which is global warming with fossil fuels. I'm sorry. It just... It's not... There's not a... We're not... We gotta get off of it, and we have to try every single innovation and and change the way we... Vinod has some has some interesting thoughts on EVs and too many cars. He doesn't like them. He wants more small devices that move people around, changing the way public transit is done. We've gotta rethink everything and how we live in cities that we should probably live in. More people living in cities is better for the environment if we can figure out a way to get them around cities and things like that. Anyway, I I I thank you for your thing. I get your point, but we're not talking about Homer Simpson nuclear reactors at this point. We're talking about something more innovative. And, again, obviously, all of the above, as Scott said. Anyway, if you've got a question of your own and you'd like it answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 Alright, Scott. One more quick break, and we'll be back for predictions.
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— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 1:04:06
Okay, Scott. Let's hear your prediction.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:09
I think president Trump is not gonna run for president under the ausp... Yeah. Under the auspices of a plea deal.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:17
Where is that coming from? No one says that stuff.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:21
Actually, governor Christie said said it and... Or at least component of that
Kara Swisher · 1:04:27
He's gonna be on the stage if Trump shows up. He he qualified. Thanks for my donation to him. I can't believe I gave him money.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:33
I actually think governor Christie is gonna surpass DeSantis and be the number two, but I don't think I don't think it'll matter. I think Trump... I I don't understand and can't empathize with president Trump, but I know how old rich men think. He has a very nice life, and his life can be going back to golf and sycophants and having sex with porn stars, which I think is a good thing. I'm not being cynical. I would like to do more of that at some point in my life. Okay. And and... Or
Kara Swisher · 1:05:04
I'm gonna hit you when this is over, just so
Scott Galloway · 1:05:05
you know.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:06
Go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 1:05:07
Or he can live under the threat of prison. And I think that... I think once the third indictment... I think this... The laws specifically around these state secrets, I think that he has... Him running for president and the momentum he has is real leverage and power, and I think he's gonna cash that leverage and power in for a plea deal that includes no jail time.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:30
For all of them, because it's not just it's not just that.
Scott Galloway · 1:05:33
I think it'll be an omnibus deal. I think the DOJ or whoever it is is gonna realize America's nightmare needs to end.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:39
Yeah. Well, there's Georgia, which is not federal.
Scott Galloway · 1:05:42
I I don't even know if it's possible to wrap them all together, but I think that the DOJ or whoever's in charge here is gonna go, this is just bad for America. It's bad for us on the international stage. It weakens our power overseas. It's creating huge controversy and dissent across our citizenship. And I think there's gonna be a deal that's gonna say to him, look. You're an old man. You're gonna be dead soon.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:04
He's just three years younger than Joe Biden, FYI. Just three years.
Scott Galloway · 1:06:08
And he's obese. Does he really wanna die of diabetes in a cell? I mean, if he goes to jail for one year, it's probably death sentence. I I don't think someone at this age ever recovers from being incarcerated. And even if there's a one in ten chance... It used to be one in a hundred. Now I think it's legitimately a one in ten chance this guy could go to jail.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:27
This is a big prediction, Scott Galloway. No one's saying this, just so you know. No one... It's interesting that Christie is fascinating, I think. He's... You know, there's so many loathsome things about him, but there... He is really sour. You know, my... I told you my friend worked for him who is... Who who He's said
Scott Galloway · 1:06:44
very good.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:44
Some of his stuff is just terrible that he did as a governor, especially that Fort Lee thing. But she said he's single best lawyer he's... She's ever seen. She's a lawyer. She was... And I'm... I have to say, I'm like, this guy is so articulate and on point. And I think one of the points that he made the other day, when he was talking about Trump is he's like, all he has now is all these weird sycophants around him. Nobody who's worked for him says he should be president. Like, all the people. Like... And and it's just piling on. They're piling one after the other.
Scott Galloway · 1:07:17
But try and cut out the noise and just say, okay. Here's a very wealthy man who's 76 or 77. And here's here's a political map that shows even if he's the nominee, even if he runs for president, he's most likely gonna lose. And here's someone representing the DOJ who's gathered everybody and has the rights to negotiate on behalf of the states and the federal government and says, look. We're gonna do a plea deal. You're gonna do this, this, x, y, and zed, but it doesn't involve jail time, and you're gonna leave the public stage. That to me feels like a pretty good deal for everybody. Because if he runs and he loses and these cases keep going and the DOJ has no reason to let up and the guy... Some, you know, several 100 very angry people funded to the gills and media going after him constantly are like, we would really like to see you in jail. We would really like to... If there's a one in ten chance of that, that is a very big motivator.
Kara Swisher · 1:08:16
Know if he can be convinced. He's sort of so red pilled at this point of himself. I don't know.
Scott Galloway · 1:08:21
Interesting. I think he is more sane than people think.
Kara Swisher · 1:08:24
Maybe so. Maybe so. He did take the bankruptcy deal. He did take the... You know, he does ultimately.
Scott Galloway · 1:08:31
You get to that point in life. The bottom line is, Kara, if he if he... If the threat of jail is removed from his life, he's got a really nice life ahead of him. He can surround himself with sycophants. He can just live at his golf clubs. He can he can just surround himself with people who think he's he's the shit. He can say stupid things. He can have an amazing life, or he can walk around wondering, okay. There's a small chance I might have to, like, turn in my wig, the orange wig for an orange jumpsuit.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:05
When? I'm gonna make you say when.
Scott Galloway · 1:09:07
I don't know. He runs out of currency when he loses the election. He no longer has anything to bargain with. And I think a lawyer... I think somebody... At some point, somebody sane is gonna sit down and say, let's just go through the math. My job is to represent you.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:21
His only hope is something happens to Joe Biden. That is really his only hope. And interestingly, AOC backed Biden. So despite all these screaming about him, people seem to be like, we're doing it. We're going for it.
Scott Galloway · 1:09:33
I'm really... I am... That's another talk show. I am really worried about... If I were the Republicans, I wouldn't even run against Biden. I'd run against I'd run against vice president Harris. I would say, this is your president, and they... I would just run against her.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:46
They... I think they've got this... Trump is sucking up too much of the oxygen to be able to do that well.
Scott Galloway · 1:09:50
Anyways, plea bargain.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:52
Plea bargain. Alright. Okay. And when is when when is Meta getting to 200,000,000?
Scott Galloway · 1:09:56
In the next thirty days, Meta is gonna have a greater revenue run rate than Twitter.
Kara Swisher · 1:10:01
Well, they don't have they don't have business yet, but they will.
Scott Galloway · 1:10:03
They they turn on ads.
Kara Swisher · 1:10:06
Phew. That's right. People think $8,000,000,000 a year.
Scott Galloway · 1:10:09
I would bet Twitter right now is somewhere between 100 and $150,000,000 a month. They last... It was said it was 2,000,000,000. I don't even think that any longer. I think with with Meta's relationships with advertisers and their ad stack and their technology, and they announced that they are at 200,000,000, and people are like, it's it's cleaner. It's nicer. They get people to test. Give us 10% of your budget from Facebook for this. You're gonna love it. Bigger bigger than Twitter. Bigger business in Twitter in the next thirty days.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 1:10:36
Alright, Scott. Alright. That's the show. This is a really good show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more pivot.
Scott Galloway · 1:10:43
And I'm naked in the next room, Kara.
Kara Swisher · 1:10:45
And just so you don't miss out on anything in the Swisher Galloway and Walt of yours, I've got a great conversation, on my other podcast. I talked with Jake Tapper about his new book, a thriller called All the Demons Are Here. By the way, his hair is fantastic, Scott. I also got to ask him about what CNN is like in the post Chris Licht era. Here's what he told me. Let's listen.
Guest · 1:11:04
I will say that things are really good right now. And this leadership team... And I will say right now, I am
Kara Swisher · 1:11:12
Mhmm.
Guest · 1:11:12
I am highly biased. Those four individuals are people whom I legitimately love and respect and admire and have been out for meals with... Just for fun, not just for work. So, you know, take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. But I think they're doing a great job, and the focus is back on our journalism, not on palace intrigue and not on media criticism. And morale has... Hasn't been better in years.
Scott Galloway · 1:11:38
By the way, I am such sloppy seconds. You know what's coming on my show about two weeks after yours?
Kara Swisher · 1:11:42
Who's? Who?
Scott Galloway · 1:11:43
Jake Tapper.
Kara Swisher · 1:11:44
Well, he's everywhere. Let me just say. This guy knows how to sell a fucking book.
Scott Galloway · 1:11:47
That's what a book. I appreciate that.
Kara Swisher · 1:11:49
Really good at it. He gets all these famous people to do. I'm taking notes for my book, and we we should take notes for yours. Anyway, please read us out, Scott Galloway.
Scott Galloway · 1:11:57
Today's show was produced by Lara Naaman and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertaught engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Neil Savario, and Gatti McVane. Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Cara, have a great weekend.
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