Scott Galloway · 40:22
This is not the country that I grew up in. This is not the party that I that I joined forty years ago. It's hard to believe it's been that long.
Kara Swisher · 40:30
So talk about that. Why are they doing that? Is it politics? Let's switch to politics. Why do they think... And it's not just them. It's... Teddy and I have written about Elon Musk, a whole bunch of people are seemingly pro Putin anti... Well, not anti... I don't know because he's also doing Starlink there. So there's a real movement politically among Republicans to do so. Not everybody by by a stretch. Lindsey Graham's very supportive of Ukraine. Lots of Republicans are. Why has that happened from your perspective politically? In
Scott Galloway · 40:58
two words, Donald Trump. In early in this conflict, he talked about Putin being brilliant. And I urge listeners who don't wanna hear this, go back to the original speeches of Donald Trump in the opening of the war and how he praised Russia. He praised Putin. He said this makes total sense. He's a brilliant strategist. Of course, he would do this. And even now even now, he's trying to force Ukraine or he would force Ukraine to make peace when their country's been invaded, their people have been killed, their infrastructure's been destroyed, children have been suffering. And in essence, there are people within the Republican Party who want Ukraine to give, to capitulate. It's not their fault. And this is part of what's wrong in politics right now is that I don't believe the public knows the truth. I don't believe that they actually understand what's going on there because if they did, they would have a different point of view. I'm sure I sound to a listener like I've like I've lost control, but I have to tell you, every time you and I talk, it's worse than the time before. Combination social media, of AI, of politics, of division, of hate towards each other, it's getting worse. And I think that we're gonna lose control between now and election day, and I don't know if we can withstand it. I don't know.
Kara Swisher · 42:19
Alright. Talk about that. How do you get those? So Trump shifted people's opinions here. Ordinarily, most people, Americans would be like, the Russians? No. Thank you. What does it take to get them off that bandwagon and following that?
Scott Galloway · 42:33
I think it's a skill that people don't focus on, and it's not words. So what brought me to prominence is not what helps bring about the change. I think you have to see it. I think you have to feel it. I think you have to experience it, which means the pictures become more important than the language. What you show and what people see is more powerful than what they hear. So that's change number one. Number two is they have to understand, in a word, consequences. What are the consequences should Russia win? What are the consequences should Ukraine win? Because it's not just about those countries. And frankly, it's not even just about China. It's about us as human beings. Do we fully understand the consequences of ChatGBT, of AI, of technology? Do we understand the con... And I don't believe we do. And I think that that's got to be a change, that we have to start looking at the impact of our decisions.
Kara Swisher · 43:32
You do polls one after another, and it doesn't seem to be moving in that... As you said, they don't seem to care about the legal woes in Trump's case. They listen to him on Ukraine. It doesn't seem like any Republican candidates have a chance of beating him at this point. He can beat himself, I guess. That's the way it goes. Where are we right now? You've done a lot of poll groups. I've been following them. They shift back and forth in an interesting way, but give us a sort of roundabout of where we are right now on the... Let's focus on the Republican side.
Scott Galloway · 44:01
On the Republican side, Ron DeSantis, the governor, and he said to me in Iowa that I'm too critical of him. So let me say something in support of his candidacy. He has the best advertising of any candidate, a a one minute ad that talked about how our culture is changing, how the things that we came to take for granted aren't what they used to be, and it's really, really impactful. That said, Republicans don't want government choosing winners and losers. They don't want weaponization. If they don't like it from Joe Biden, they're not gonna like it from a Republican either. So DeSantis' numbers all across the country have been deteriorating. In his place, in Iowa, Tim Scott is rising, and in New Hampshire, Chris Christie is rising. Different states, different electorates, different priorities, different candidates. At this point, we have never had on either the Republican or the Democratic side someone with this much of a lead that doesn't get the nomination. So you're correct there. But I gotta tell you, as I look at this, as I listen to the words, the phrases, the emotions, the passion of that Trump vote, I don't know if anything can change it. I don't know if if even great debate performances in August, September, October, November will change this outcome, and here's why. Trump is perceived as a victim. He's perceived as being persecuted. His enemies are the same enemies as the average Republican. And so every time he gets indicted, his numbers go up. And people are just not willing to hear an alternative narrative right now. They get their information from sources that affirm them rather than inform them. The people they talk to are all in a silo. And this is a much bigger issue that I know you deal with. I know this podcast deals with.
Kara Swisher · 45:58
Mhmm.
Scott Galloway · 45:59
We're screwed as a society because we can't even listen to people that aren't affirming what we already believe.
Guest · 46:07
Okay. Teddy? Frank, a very memorable campaign for me to cover was... I covered the Wendy Davis campaign in 2014, which she lost by, I think, was 21 points. And that that race has kind of put a stamp in my mind about how races are covered and whether or not... What what it means for a race to be, quote, unquote, competitive. We all cover that race in Texas, one of the Houston Chronicle, like it was a five point race. And that means covering this ad or that ad or why is Wendy Davis visiting Houston or Dallas, blah blah blah. And she lost by 21 points, and I felt like we all wasted our time covering this race because she was never gonna win. I'm thinking about the Republican primary right now and whether or not reporters and frankly, like, people like us are wasting our time. We're we're we're we're about Tim Scott rising in Iowa or Chris Christie rising in New Hampshire and going from 5% to 10% or DeSantis firing a third of his staff, like, whatever the news of the day is, do you think there actually is a Republican primary at this point? Like like like, let put this way. Would you call the Republican primary competitive?
Scott Galloway · 47:12
At this moment, you're correct. At this moment, it isn't. But we've never had a president who, in the middle of this campaign, based on when the trials are scheduled, he could be found guilty. He could be heading to prison, technically, in the middle of the campaign. So how can you not cover it this way? How can you not hear from every voice? And my my issue, I'm glad you raised it, is that the people who are supposed to keep us sane, the people who are supposed to tell us the truth and interpret what's happening, has lost all credibility, all trust, and it shouldn't be that way. And I'm gonna say something that's heretical. I need the New York Times. I need the Washington Post. I need the Wall Street Journal because they're the ones who will say, wait a minute, mister former president. What you say is not true. But if the public won't believe your reporting, if they won't believe either what you say, how you say it, or what you choose to say, then we really are screwed. And that's the source of this, and you can you can hear it in my voice. That's the source of this angst. That's the source of this frustration is that there's no way to bring accountability into this election because the people who are supposed to do it, the FBI, the intelligence, the justice department, everything has been politicized and polarized. And I'm using screwed because I don't wanna use the f word on the radio.
Kara Swisher · 48:43
You can use the f word. It's not the radio. You can use the f word. So according to Quinnipiac University poll, nearly half of all Americans would consider voting for a third party. You brought that in. You did focus groups with some of them. Why don't we see those numbers supported in actual elections? I I I was thinking this yesterday. I was like, there just kinda has to be a third party now, you know, especially among disaffected Republicans at least and maybe some Democrats. Can you talk a little bit about that happening, whether it's no labels or whoever? What kind of impact does that have?
Scott Galloway · 49:13
I think no labels could have a significant impact, but the key is that it's not another party. It's not... It cannot be political. It cannot be bipartisan. It has to be nonpartisan. It cannot be the best of the Democrats, the best of Republicans. It has to get around all that. Because if it's political, that is part of the same thing that the public is saying enough. And in fact, if you ask me, what is the one word that describes how the most Americans feel right now about our politics, about the election, about our system of government, it's enough with an exclamation point. And no labels has the opportunity to whichever kinda ends up running at Joe Manchin. Joe Manchin's perfect, but he's not the only one. Maybe John Sununu from New Hampshire, maybe Tulsi Gabbard from Hawaii, even a Mark Cuban, even a business person, but it's not bipartisanship. It's nonpartisan, nonpolitical, nontraditional. It's someone who truly comes from outside the system, has the experience that would enable them to do the job, Because the thing after not being political, they want results. By the way, it's not getting things done. Getting things done is the process. They want actual results. And the third value that we're looking for is the truth. This person better not be political, better not have been shown to say one thing and do another. If you can show accountability, results, the truth, you're credible. Frank, I had one question
Guest · 50:50
on on on polling regarding no labels and just third party candidates in general. I feel like there is a very intense attachment to the center right, you know, low taxes, but keep, you know, keep abortion rights, this hypothetical candidate when we talk about it. Right? And I and I think this show has been polling, like, at a time like now. Right? It's August 2023. This... We're talking about polling an election that's, you know, sixteen or or fourteen months away. Do you feel like there's any sign in in kind of polling that people might like that sort of candidate theoretically, but then, like, when they actually go to vote, you know, they're just, like, driven by partisanship, and it's, like, sure. They could be, you know, a Wall Street Republican, but they vote for Trump anyway.
Kara Swisher · 51:37
Or this is our choice. We got, I'd like something other than Coke and Pepsi, but I guess that's what I have to pick. Right? That could
Guest · 51:43
be something I'm wondering I'm wondering whether polling is overstating these people's appeal.
Scott Galloway · 51:47
Absolutely not. This is different. You have a president who is 80 years old who's asking for support for when he's 86 years old. You have another candidate who's asking support when the guy is being indicted, seems like, every week for another crime. And the public is looking at both these candidates and saying, no. Both of you, go away. Give us something different. I worked for Ross Perot, so I've been through this on a personal level back in 1992. And Ross Perot ended up with 19% of the vote, and he was certifiably crazy. Think of what has happened since 1992. How much more negative we are, how much less optimistic we are, how much that we believe that the two party system is broken. It's not working for people because nothing that they're looking for is getting done, and both sides demonize each other. If Ross Perot can get 19% of the vote, and as I say this, I'm so emotional that I'm actually spitting all over my computer. If Ross Perot can get 19%, an independent candidate can get at least 25, even 30%. Can they win? I don't think so. You cannot count them out.
Kara Swisher · 53:02
Count them out. Okay. When you talk about that, it's kinda... It's one of the things that tends to happen is that... And in our history, we've had this happen. Parties change that there are... There have been several different shifts. Do you imagine this is one of those times, and how does it actually come about? Because, you know, in the case of... You are sort of comparing Donald Trump with Biden. He has passed some significant legislation compared to most presidents, by the way. It doesn't seem to sink in with people, or he doesn't get credit for it. Inflation is now at 3%. You know what I mean? It's... Things have calmed down considerably. He's not gonna get it because of the age thing, pretty much. That's the big wrap on him, correct, is his age. Not his... That they don't like him or that they don't think he's effective. Correct? Or am I wrong about that?
Scott Galloway · 53:45
But Donald Trump also has a significant set. He brought our attention to China, which no previous president, Republican, or He Democrat had addressed the issue of of economic development. We were having quarter after quarter after quarter of serious significant economic growth. The unemployment rate under Trump, they said it could never get that low, and it did. So Trump himself can point to this. The reason why they don't
Kara Swisher · 54:15
But he doesn't. He spends a lot of time talking about election fraud.
Scott Galloway · 54:17
Exactly. So instead of focusing on, okay. I did this. This is step one. Let's now focus on the future. He's so trapped in 2020 that not only do I think that he would lose if he's the Republican nominee, I think he would bring the entire Republican Party down with him. The American people don't want to look backward. It's part of what makes us uniquely American. We're focused on the future, and he's creating this sense of resentment and revenge that also wasn't really a part of our culture, and it's now become that way. And that's my criticism. That's my focus.
Kara Swisher · 54:55
So you just said you don't think he can win. I have to tell you, several of my Trumpy relatives are tired of him. They really are, and they weren't before. They absolutely weren't. They're like, I think he might be guilty. Like, they are... It's getting through. I know you don't think it is, but I think it is with not the crate... Not the ones that go and buy all the hats. That's a different group that's never gonna change. But the ones that were like, I like this tax thing. I like I like the China thing. I like this. They're all like, what a fucking loud mouth pain in the ass, and I think he's probably a criminal. And they... That's what they think. Now I don't know who they're gonna vote for. I don't think they'll vote for him. I don't think they'll vote for anybody, actually, is what I
Scott Galloway · 55:30
And that's why Joe Manchin suddenly becomes a viable option. But I need
Kara Swisher · 55:34
to Yeah. They would vote for him.
Scott Galloway · 55:35
So I'm glad that you raised this because I've been unable to present this on cable news. Those who want to sink Donald Trump aren't doing it the right way. If you insult his supporters, they will never leave him. If you demonize the good stuff, they won't hear the bad stuff. I I keep saying to to anyone who will listen, if you want to indict him for criminal behavior, don't give him five days to define what that indictment is about. He doesn't play by the same rules. He doesn't act the way any other candidate acts, so you have to understand that. And it's not about killing him with kindness, but it's... But demonizing is not gonna get you where you want to go. Mhmm.
Kara Swisher · 56:23
Which... Although Biden's been quiet, hasn't he? He has been quiet. He hasn't, like Sure. He hasn't gone on the offensive against him on that at all. I haven't heard a word. I haven't heard a word from him about this indictment at all. He's on the beach. He's riding his bike around. That's my impression.
Scott Galloway · 56:37
He's nervous because of what is happening with, Hunter Biden.
Kara Swisher · 56:41
With Hunter. Right.
Scott Galloway · 56:42
And it's, I just think that we've weaponized politics to a degree that... And I recognize we did the same thing one hundred and fifty years ago. The campaign against Grover Cleveland in 1892 was vicious. The campaign against Thomas Jefferson in 1800 was vicious. But Remember it well. We didn't have social media. Well, Joe Biden remembers it all. We did not have social
Kara Swisher · 57:10
Trump is three years younger, but go ahead. Keep going.
Scott Galloway · 57:12
But he acts so much younger.
Kara Swisher · 57:14
He's still old.
Scott Galloway · 57:15
Social... We didn't have social media. We didn't have AI. We didn't have the ability to only collect news from one perspective, and I think that it... It's just making everything so much worse.
Guest · 57:29
Do you get the sense, Frank, that any regular Americans are able to recall or or frankly just string together a couple sentences about kind of the the the the legal fracas that Trump finds himself in right now. And I I ask that because I think as a as a news as a news consumer, I'm, like, somewhat concerned that just the the cacophony of different Trump related legal scandals. Right now, there's not three indictments. There could be a fourth indictment coming out of Georgia right now. You know, legal stories in general are, like, difficult to follow. Right? Filing motion to dismiss. You know? Maybe it's gonna go to a different judge, a different courtroom. You know? There's gonna be like four overlapping stories the exact same time. And I know that, like, to the average, you know, news consumer, they might just be generally aware that, like, oh, Trump is in legal trouble period, and, like, the details don't really matter. But I also wonder if that could be bad for democracy, that if there could be a sense that, like, all of this just sort of merges into one, like, general details don't matter, deep state out to get Trump, like, that it's not actually persuading people because there's too... Almost too many indictments and and too much chaos, and maybe that works to Trump's advantage. And it's it's hard as as journalists to, like, write about these things in a digestible way because there's almost too much happening, and I wonder if Trump can take advantage of that.
Scott Galloway · 58:51
Well, first, I always target my language to everyday ordinary Americans. I don't call them normal Americans. I don't call them regular Americans because that's pejorative, and that's harmful. If they're everyday ordinary Americans, that's you and me. By the way, this stuff does matter. So the listener will not be able to see that that... How I'm looking or how you look and what you say, but it does matter. Second is that the key has to be to clarify so that it's it's... You're trying to simplify something that's very complicated. And third, you can't be shown to having a point of view. You can present the evidence. You can present the facts, which is actually more important than the evidence, and do so and lay it out first, second, third, fourth, fifth. Frankly, the newspapers have an advantage the first time in modern... In the last ten years because they can actually print it, and people can see point one, point two, point three, all 10 points. But I've been looking, and they're not doing it. Everything You
Guest · 59:54
mean you print the indictment, you mean, actually themselves?
Kara Swisher · 59:57
Actually Or explain it. Clarify it.
Scott Galloway · 59:59
Explain it point by point by point. What... Enumerate. One, two, three, four, five.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:03
Well, have, that's not true. The Times did it and so did the Post. But they
Scott Galloway · 1:00:09
have to keep on doing it. By the way, one time, and then you have all the criticism of it day after day after day. One time doesn't do it. It has to be some sort of repetition. It is not being communicated in a way that people hear it, and therefore, it will fail. You don't have a choice here. If you want the public to be fully informed and understand what's at stake, you have to communicate in their language using their words, using the method that they receive it, not yours, not mine, just theirs.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:45
Okay. I have one more question. You were talking about social media and AI and ChatDBT. What impact do you think it's gonna have? What is the most important element from the tech point of view? Is it the tech billionaires giving money? Is it the social media? Is it Twitter? I think Twitter's sort of fallen on harder times, and I don't think it's as relevant as it was. Who do you think is the big decider here, the most influential part of the system right now?
Scott Galloway · 1:01:11
And I actually don't look at it that way.
Kara Swisher · 1:01:13
Okay.
Scott Galloway · 1:01:13
I'm in a relentless pursuit of the truth, wherever it may take me, which means that I criticize people who I used to support. It means I support those who I once criticized. People will not know the truth with the combination of social media and AI and the way that everything is changing. Were at an event I was at. You heard my voice on the screen, and they played something I did not believe, and it sounded like my voice. I had people standing around me saying, did you say that? Obviously, I hadn't. The truth is in jeopardy. The truth, the facts. And that is the that is the warning that I give everyone listening, that you're not gonna be able to know what is fact and what is fiction unless we figure out some way. And I'll acknowledge something to you. I have talked to representatives, senators, and congressmen that they have to get this under control, that they cannot just say, It's freedom of speech, cannot be regulated, if we let
Kara Swisher · 1:02:17
this You're talking my language, Frank. You know I've been doing it for a decade.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:20
Yes. Actually, your ideas and your philosophy behind it, with my language and messaging, we might actually save democracy because... And I'm I'm serious about this. I think that this could be the last election that we have as a country if we don't get our act together.
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 1:02:44
Woah. Alright. So your prediction. I was gonna say what happens in '20... Last election is your prediction if we It's don't put it prediction. Not
Scott Galloway · 1:02:52
but I'm saying that just as the experts say that there's a 15% chance that AI could destroy the world. Well, there's a 15% chance that it could destroy American democracy. And it's not just happening here. It's happening in other countries across the globe. Democracy is under attack, and we need to find some ways to to ensure that it survives and thrives.
Kara Swisher · 1:03:15
Alright. Give me... I'm gonna then make you end on what is that thing we need to do? Legislation? Is it, what? Because it's quite powerful. You know I have great concerns about it.
Scott Galloway · 1:03:25
There has to be legislation that you cannot tell people that the vaccines are unsafe when it's a lie. This is affecting how we think about health. It's affecting our behavior. And this is just the beginning. What happens in the next pandemic? And because of AI, these narratives that are simply false are spread throughout the population. What are we gonna do? What are we gonna do when we have an economic meltdown? And AI, it starts to blame certain people, it starts to make accusations that are simply factually untrue. I'm on the side, at least, let's make sure that our children are not poisoned. Let's make sure that young people, that we have some sort of controls in social media, so that a 10 year old or 12 year old is not being fed information that causes her to believe that she's fat, that causes her to want to take drugs, that causes her to behave in a way that's damaging to her. The young women and young men in this country, they can't defend themselves. They're 10, 12 years old. They don't know the difference. Let's at least start with legislation to affect young people, and then we'll deal with the adults later.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:41
Well, Frank, optimistic as always. I don't know what to say. Give me one optimistic thing. You have to. I'm sorry. I'm gonna make you.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:48
Okay. The Baltimore Orioles were my baseball team when I was a kid.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:52
Uh-huh.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:52
I I have left them over the last twenty, twenty five years to to support other teams.
Guest · 1:04:58
Uh-huh.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:58
My my sense of optimism is if the Baltimore Orioles can actually have a winning season, then America can survive.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:05
Okay. I'm gonna leave it at that. Frank, as usual, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
— Predictions segment ends —
Scott Galloway · 1:05:12
It's my honor.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:13
Well, Teddy, that was a that was a dose of sunshine and daffodils.
Guest · 1:05:17
Swisher lunch 2028.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:19
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. He's he's changed quite a bit, let's just say.
Guest · 1:05:23
Yeah. I know, he said combine your technical know how with his messaging ability.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:28
Yeah. Mister Contract of America feels a little liberal... More liberal than me.
Guest · 1:05:32
Sure.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:32
Sure. Interesting. Anyway, I think he's a 100% right about Ukraine. It's it's a... It's an existential issue. The Russians are really thugs. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.
[Ad break]
Kara Swisher · 1:06:42
Okay, Teddy. Let's hear some wins and fails. Why don't you go first?
Guest · 1:06:47
Sure. Let's do, can we start with a win?
Kara Swisher · 1:06:51
Yes, please. You can start with whatever you want. You're such a positive fella.
Guest · 1:06:54
Let's let's let's do Sean Hannity. Oh.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:58
A win.
Guest · 1:06:59
Sean... No. Rare rare positive mention for for our friend Sean. I think that this debate
Kara Swisher · 1:07:04
I love that you call everyone your friend. None of these people are
Guest · 1:07:07
my friend. Friend friend of pivot, Sean Hannity.
Kara Swisher · 1:07:09
He's welcome to come on.
Guest · 1:07:11
Yeah. I... Feel like this debate with with with Gavin Newsom and Ron DeSantis is gonna make Sean Hannity relevant in in the the the the world of Washington.
Kara Swisher · 1:07:23
Think he likes Gavin Newsom. Sure. I mean You... It was a little bit of... It was a little flirty, that interview. A little... Because Gavin is a has a has a has a... Is a handsome man, let's just say. And I was like, does Sean Hannity have a little man crush on this guy? I think he does.
Guest · 1:07:40
So so Hannity, obviously is like... When's the when's the last time we thought about Sean Hannity? In in in in the Tucker Carlson era of Fox where this was the dominant personality. Mhmm. Like, Hannity just, like, was not relevant at all. Right. And for the first time, people are talking about Sean Hannity, which if you're Sean Hannity, or you're Sean Hannity's friends or agents, like, you're just happy to be talked about. Yeah. It really does it really does seem like that debate is happening. Right?
Kara Swisher · 1:08:04
I mean,
Guest · 1:08:04
both people are now arguing.
Kara Swisher · 1:08:06
You know, when Handy is not such a giant asshole, he's not a bad interviewer, honestly, when he's not just sucking up. Yeah. I I hate to say it, but when he does a good job, he does a good job. Like, he's not bad, and he asked you about... He just... He... When he lets is when Trump does an interview, lets everything slide. That's all. And then you're like, come on. And you can you can see it in his head. Like, I really need to say something, but I'm not going to because I really enjoy, you know, the suckuppery. But Right. But you... That... I thought the Gavin Newsom interview was actually quite good. Yeah. I think they I think they both... I thought it was well done, actually, in that case. And I thought Gavin gave as good as he got in that situation. So what do you think is gonna happen? I mean They should do a cage match. That would be
Guest · 1:08:44
interesting. Sure. I was like, yeah. What what... I was gonna say, what do think is likely to happen?
Kara Swisher · 1:08:48
Kick his ass.
Guest · 1:08:49
No. What's likely to happen? The the the the Newsom DeSantis debate or the Elon
Kara Swisher · 1:08:53
Oh, okay. Fight? Alright. So win.
Guest · 1:08:55
Should be some sort of parlay bet here.
Kara Swisher · 1:08:57
Okay. I accept your win. Go ahead.
Guest · 1:08:59
Okay. Sure. My fail. Yeah. So I just got back from Switzerland, Kara. And
Kara Swisher · 1:09:04
Okay.
Guest · 1:09:04
I'm gonna say all my fail is the American train system. I was just I was just in your... And I know I know this is not
Kara Swisher · 1:09:11
They're so good. They're so good.
Guest · 1:09:13
It is it is it is amazing. Like, have so many stories of, like, our train is running two minutes late, and there's, like, a bus and a boat, and everyone is coordinated. And it's beautiful beautiful symphony where, you know, the boat will take you right on time to the gondola, to the funicular train. And, you know, I know I know that I'm getting I'm getting emotional here. But it it made me realize why can't we have nice things in The United States where in The US, it's like your train is running late.
Scott Galloway · 1:09:37
Mhmm.
Guest · 1:09:38
You know? See you see you in three days when you're stranded in, you know, at Penn Station. Like, the Swiss, it's just... It it it was really beautiful just to see the entire Mhmm. Way that, like, the transit system of The United States could work. But meanwhile, like, know, I mean, the infrastructure bill that was passed by, you know, Democrats, like, it's pretty much centered on roads. Right? It's centered on highways. It's centered on cars. I don't think we can, like, blow up The US train system and start over from scratch, but being in this... In the, you know, land of the of the mountain train made me realize, like, why... Which made me wonder why can't we have nice things.
Kara Swisher · 1:10:13
My When is an astonishing piece by Jen Sr, who's one of my favorite writers at The Atlantic. It's a story about her aunt. It says, the ones we sent away. It's a remarkable story, about an aunt of hers, her mother's sister, who... You know, you've read this about someone like Rose Kennedy or something like that, but about Americans at some point during the past century, I'm reading from the name sequestered from public views, warehouse disappeared, roughly shorn from the family tree. And her aunt, Adele, was institutionalized when she was a young child in the nineteen fifties, and the advice they would give to parents. And now today, they are not. They are mainstreamed into education, and they improve quite a bit. And so then, she went and visited someone who was like her aunt, and this kid is thriving at home with a very dedicated parents, mother especially. And I just found this piece to be really pertinent about the way we warehoused people. And I think upcoming with all the problems we have around the elderly and where to put people, how we deal with care, it was it was... Speaking of truly American tragedy and a lot of fails in a lot of ways too was really... It's worth your reading. It had so much pertinent today. And on my fail, I mean, it's very briefly. The the the Times is reporting on Clarence Thomas speaking of billionaires on disclosed lists in this latest... Some... One of his friends... This looks like a friend of his, Anthony Welters, former executive at UnitedHealthcare, who sold his company, which was called something else. He bought him his RV, essentially, and it looks like he probably didn't pay off the loan. I don't know, allegedly. Yep. Because he wouldn't say whether he repaid it or forgave it. He said it was satisfied, which means it wasn't paid off, probably. So, you know, it's just more stuff. Tuition help for family members, travel on private jets and yachts. And I know, like, all these justices, but no one does the grifting like Clarence Thomas. I think it's a systemic problem. It should be much more transparent. Republicans obviously won't budge, but it was an... It's an it's an ongoing embarrassment. This guy was pretending he's in his... It's like a luxury RV. It's not like a regular guy or... I've been in a regular... I had in a regular guy RV, but it's like a real... Was gonna hotel on wheels. It's a Four Seasons on wheels.
Guest · 1:12:31
Re... Reading about that story made me very fascinated this entire kind of, like, RV, cottage industry where there's, you know, all these, like, conventions and clubs and, like, high
Kara Swisher · 1:12:40
end There's regular ones, but these are high Sure.
Guest · 1:12:43
Sure. Sure. Mean, I'm I'm obviously familiar with, an RV park, right, which is
Kara Swisher · 1:12:47
a Right.
Guest · 1:12:47
You know, RV club for for normal for normal people. But that there's this entire, you know, RV has to cost, you know, 7 figures or more, and there's this entire little high end, stratification even within the RV industry. I I had no idea that existed. So
Kara Swisher · 1:13:02
Clarence Thomas really needs to stop. Anyway, we wanna hear from you, the listeners. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show, or call 85551 Again, Teddy, that's the show. Explain where people can find you.
Guest · 1:13:18
Sure. We are at Puck News, and I I write a weekly email for people who are interested in the world of tech wealth and philanthropy and politics. It's called the stratosphere, and anybody who... Who's listening should subscribe to Puck.
Kara Swisher · 1:13:32
Yes. They should. And, actually, there's a lot of money in tech, I understand. We'll see. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. Anyway, we'll be back on Friday for more Scott free August. We've got more fantastic guests. I will read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naaman, Travis Larchuk, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Enderthot engineered this episode. Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week with another breakdown of all things tech and business.
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Guest · 1:14:52
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