Kara Swisher · 17:21
Representatives, and I'm in New York City. Wins and fails this week. We're here to do that. I would say I'm gonna go up first because my, I think the win was the hashtag Kara Jack, and yet it was also a fail. So, we we can do a rundown of what I learned from him, which was very little, but it was really interesting. And I don't know if you paid attention to it, but much of the Internet did. And it was a it was a it was a goat rodeo. It was a clusterfuck. It was fascinating. So tell me what you think of Kara Jack.
Scott Galloway · 17:46
So you call it a a win loss or a win lose?
Kara Swisher · 17:49
Yeah. So I Yeah. I don't... I think I won. Yeah. I like... I... You know? I I don't know. I... There were some things he said, and there were a lot of insights when I kept saying be specific, and he wasn't. I think people understood the difficulties of our job. And and I think he did say a few things, including, I think, something that a lot of people were sort of disturbed by, which was picking Elon Musk as his favorite Twitter personality, which I think was an interesting choice. But other people felt it was exactly indicative of the problems, because such, you know, Elon has such a complex history on Twitter, both bad and good. So what do you think? What do you... I'd love to know your thoughts.
Scott Galloway · 18:24
So you call it a win lose, and I think you're half right. I thought I thought it was awful, and I I think that it was like watching C SPAN in Chinese. It was both boring yet confusing. I just didn't... I found the whole thing ridiculous. I tuned in because I like you and I was interested to see what what he might say. But he... The problem is these people realize that there's no defense for what they're doing. So they employ communications tactics like I'll testify in front of congress as long as I can play beat the clock and say a bunch of gibberish for five minutes, then go on the next There was
Kara Swisher · 18:59
a of gibberish going on.
Scott Galloway · 19:00
And he did, quite frankly, I think he played us, and I'll say us, because when you give him questions via Twitter, he can say bullshit like, our policy on hate speech has evolved. What the fuck does that mean?
Kara Swisher · 19:13
Yes.
Scott Galloway · 19:13
And you would try and
Kara Swisher · 19:14
press those.
Scott Galloway · 19:14
And he couldn't be pressed because he wasn't sitting across the So to me, it is obscene that an individual who has, is responsible for the algorithms that create some of the most important or influential media in the world is shit scared of the media and won't come on your show. So, Jack
Kara Swisher · 19:34
Yeah. I know.
Scott Galloway · 19:34
I agree. Not get a pass. Come on the show. He said he
Kara Swisher · 19:37
He is not.
Scott Galloway · 19:38
He said he wants to branch out. You are the branch. Come on the show. So
Kara Swisher · 19:43
I can't I can't hijack him for goodness' sake. I can't hide. But I... The thing is I do I do... I don't totally agree. I think there was one... People saw the lack of transparency, one. Two, they saw that a lot of people understood the the bulls... The... It was talked about a lot how he did that. Some people had very funny versions of it. Felix Salmon had a really funny tweet and stuff like that. But you're right. He... They do... They obfuscate, and they find ways to get around it. And I think the medium that... One of the things that was very indicative was that the CEO of Twitter didn't know how to use Twitter or couldn't use Twitter or couldn't... It wasn't able to have a conversation, and their whole focus is conversations. And so I think that was... I I think that's... To me, you know, for example, in the Mark Zuckerberg podcast, when he couldn't answer the question of how he felt about the deaths in Myanmar and India, it in... Indicated something. It was a very big moment for people to go, oh, he can't articulate it. And I think though... You... In those white space moments, you get just as much information about these people and little tiny bits of it. And I get that it's it's... I get they're obfuscating. I get they're trying to run away from real encounters with real people and real journalists, but they do... They can't... They don't win. I don't think that was a win for him at all, though you might. No. Because I don't think
Scott Galloway · 20:53
he It was reminiscent of Sheryl Sandberg's talk at DLD, and that is by the end of it, everybody was bored yet angry. And it just Yeah. Exactly. He didn't do himself any favor. So if you wanna be if you wanna be CEO of a large media company and you wanna pretend to take responsibility, then, you know, then then then stiffen up, put on a tie, bring the nose ring and the beard down, and talk to Kara and meet... Of Kara. Meet of Kara. Meet her
Kara Swisher · 21:18
Of Kara.
Scott Galloway · 21:19
Meet meet her handmade.
Kara Swisher · 21:21
There are fewer there are fewer and fewer people who wanna meet with me, but that's okay. I don't care. I still have some power. So, but I think it's... It is interesting. You know, we have done a lot of interviews, and he does show up compared to many people. And, actually, one of the things... The only thing that I thought was relatively... He's not easily offended. A lot of these other people, have to deal with their offense at my mean questions. And he is not someone who gets offended, and that's a pleasure, I have to say, compared to other people. He's a professional in that manner.
Scott Galloway · 21:47
I I don't think that's
Kara Swisher · 21:48
give him
Scott Galloway · 21:48
an s. I don't think that's it.
Kara Swisher · 21:49
I I don't want. I I... Listen. It's just a small
Scott Galloway · 21:52
I I think he's actually very offended. I just think he has a lot of Botox, and you can't register his emotions as well.
Kara Swisher · 21:58
You can't see. You couldn't tell. He has that nice
Scott Galloway · 21:59
beard going I don't think you can tell.
Kara Swisher · 22:01
Moving on to another fail. This Esquire magazine cover story profiling the white American boy at the age... In the age of Trump during Black History Month. I had a little few tweets about this. Any thoughts?
Scott Galloway · 22:12
You know, Esquire, let's go grab a highball with Angie Dickinson after the Johnny show. It's just... Why do we care? I like... I I think Esquire has done some good work. I actually like the people there. I think they've done an amazing job staying relevant, but it's literally like, let's go buy a Cadillac. I mean, I love... I I gotta admit, I love Esquire because I like the old school stuff, but why why does Kara Swisher care what Esquire puts on its cover?
Kara Swisher · 22:35
Because I... This because it's ridiculous. They're just like... What I didn't like... I don't like is, like, how they are like, oh my god. We're being... This... One of his editors' DMs was... He DMed. He publicly did a DM is... Which is, like, shows you exactly how much they love... You know, you're right. Angie Dickinson is right. What is this Internet thing? And it just was like this typical... Like, they just knew... Like, can you just, like, have just some awareness of the modern age? That's just a tiny bit. Maybe you start with a black kid on the cover of the first one, like... Or whatever. Just something different. And they just... They want it to be controversial, and then they didn't want the controversy, which is irritating. If you're gonna go out there, you know, all these whining journalists about how they're attacked, I'm just like, please. Like, I'm... I have to deal with Tucker Carlson for fuck's sake. Like, just suck it up. Like, suck up the the the the the criticism and and and expect it when you do something like that. That's my feeling.
Scott Galloway · 23:28
I think I have more empathy for that kind of tone deaf stupidity that constantly emerges from white male heterosider. Keep in mind, Kara, and I hope this makes you more patient with me. When I first moved to Laguna, before my parents got divorced, hold me. But, anyways, before they split up, we got this thing called cable TV. And you know what I watch four times a day, two hours a day for a eight year old developing male mind? Literally, that's not true. I dream of genie. That's what I was raised on. Yes, master. Jeanie, get to your bottle. So I deserve some forgiveness. I've come a long way.
Kara Swisher · 24:07
Do people want I've come You get none. I had to have...
Scott Galloway · 24:09
No. My sensitive... So my sensitivity training was the Partridge family.
Kara Swisher · 24:14
Alright. Whatever. Whatever. You know, I had a long discussion about Ben Shapiro with my 13 year old, which was a nightmare of of enormous proportions. Like, I'm just saying this stuff works online. This, like, sort of bullshit works online, and it just is... It's exhausting. Alright. We've gotta go because we have very
Scott Galloway · 24:29
limited time. I didn't get to my wins or my predictions.
Kara Swisher · 24:33
I'm going to do. What is your wins? Very quickly. Wins and
Scott Galloway · 24:36
then So my win, I
Kara Swisher · 24:37
You've got five
Scott Galloway · 24:37
minutes. Scripted this... The defining era of our... Of of this age or the defining art form is television and a TV show that I just absolutely adore as Modern Family. And in the midst of all this Mhmm. Noise about Amazon, they announced they're gonna have their final season next year. And I watch... I am watching all eleven seasons with my my two boys, and it makes us all feel and feel closer as a family. I think the amalgam of creativity, writing, great acting is just wonderful. And I would like to play a clip. Don't know if we're
Kara Swisher · 25:06
I had the I had the showrunner and creator of it, Steve Levitan, on code
Scott Galloway · 25:09
many years ago. Genius. But there's one there's one clip I'd like to play, and it's Jay Pritchard who is plays... Who who who is played by Ed O'Neil. He's the patriarch of the family, and the episode is about That's great. Being... Wearing your emotions on your sleeves or keeping your emotions bottled up. And in this scene in this scene, he's talking about, when his father passed away. Feelings.
Speaker · 25:32
I didn't even cry at his funeral. You believe that? The guy was my whole world. Not a tear. Everybody looking at me like like I didn't love him. But he knew.
Scott Galloway · 25:45
He had to know.
Kara Swisher · 25:46
Right? Of course, he did.
Scott Galloway · 25:51
Son of a bitch, I felt good getting out
Speaker · 25:53
of. Wow.
Kara Swisher · 25:54
I know. They just want therapy. Alright, Scott. What did you get from that?
Scott Galloway · 26:01
You know, that show at at our at our age, Kara, you know what I want from media? I wanna feel something. And Modern Family makes me feel something Okay. Every
Kara Swisher · 26:11
Well, that's what media is supposed to do when it's good.
Scott Galloway · 26:13
I thought it was supposed to make us think. I wanted to feel. I'm done thinking.
Kara Swisher · 26:16
Well, I went and saw Aquaman, and it didn't make me feel anything except that guy's
Scott Galloway · 26:20
very That guy's hot.
Kara Swisher · 26:20
That was a lot of movie. I had to say I did get my whatever $29 worth in terms of stuff. Was a big...
Scott Galloway · 26:27
It was
Kara Swisher · 26:27
a lot. There was a lot going on there. But you're right. You do wanna feel something. You do. You know, like how you felt watching Black Panther. Whenever it's done really well, it really... Media is wonderful. Most of the time, it makes people sick these days, unfortunately. Predictions. Predictions.
Scott Galloway · 26:42
Okay. I want prediction.
Kara Swisher · 26:43
In, and he does not wait. Let me just tell He does not
Scott Galloway · 26:46
I am so scared of Barry Dillard. The
Kara Swisher · 26:47
two of
Scott Galloway · 26:48
you together
Kara Swisher · 26:48
You should... What's my... We're doing process. The media. In the in the river here in New York. Some... And he has lots of things to say. He's very... He's... I love interviewing Barry Dillard.
Scott Galloway · 26:57
Yeah. He's... That... That'll be a good one. So... Okay. My prediction, I'm in DC.
Kara Swisher · 27:01
I'm gonna send him after you if he's... If you're
Scott Galloway · 27:03
No. No. No. No. I was literally just thinking say nothing about me. That guy scares the shit out
Kara Swisher · 27:07
of me. He should. So predictions, please. Besides, you'll be dead if we don't hurry.
— Predictions segment begins —
Scott Galloway · 27:12
Okay. So, in the next thirty to sixty days, a new candidate for president on the Democrat side announces and becomes the front runner or maybe the number two, and it's somebody that 95% of the American public has never heard of. Who? And What are you doing?
Kara Swisher · 27:28
An Obama? Who is it?
Scott Galloway · 27:30
No. That's close. It's senator Bennett from Colorado.
Kara Swisher · 27:33
Oh, I just had lunch with him. Yes. He's fascinating. Not lunch. We had coffee. Yes. He's really interesting. That's a really interesting man. He's very egg heady, though. I like him. I like his all egg head moves.
Scott Galloway · 27:44
Character character over charisma, centrist candidate that's not a billionaire. Colorado is the most likable state in the world. This is a guy who's genuinely concerned with the middle class. He's an odd person, married once, wonderful family, school superintendent, wants to double down on capitalism, and the most important criteria, he checks the box. All of us Democrats are gonna come to the conclusion that there's only one criteria, and that is who can beat Trump. And 70% taxes and Medicare for all is a way to reelect Trump. This guy is a capitalist. He's got business experience. He cares. He's into the middle class.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 28:20
I like I
Scott Galloway · 28:20
like Senator Michael Bennett.
Kara Swisher · 28:22
I do. You know, it's interesting. My son yelled down from upstairs yesterday. Do you know this Michael Bennett person? I just watched his speech. You know, when he was yelling at whatever.
Scott Galloway · 28:30
Ed Cruz? Oh my god. Oh, that was amazing.
Speaker · 28:34
These crocodile tears that the senator from Texas is crying for first responders are too hard for me to take. They're too hard for me to take. Because when you... When the senator from Texas shut this government down in 2013, my state was flooded.
Speaker · 28:54
It was underwater. People were killed. People's houses were destroyed. Their small businesses were ruined forever.
Kara Swisher · 29:06
And my son was like, I like him. And he was my son who's voting in 2020 was like in the Kamala. She's like Kamala. Now he likes Michael Bennett, which was really interesting. That was interesting.
Scott Galloway · 29:14
Louis likes
Kara Swisher · 29:15
senator Bennett? I I... Like, let me do full disclosure here. His brother is James Bennett, who I work for at the New York Times. He's the head of the
Scott Galloway · 29:22
Is that disclosure or name dropping? I like that. Name dropping hidden in disclosure.
Kara Swisher · 29:26
No. You have to. It's gonna be an issue. It's gonna be... Run the opinion section. New York Times in the middle of a presidential election. It's gonna be an issue.
Scott Galloway · 29:32
So you and I are gonna host a fundraiser for senator Bennett. And you're gonna have interesting people, and I'm gonna invite hot people. And you know why I like to have hot people at parties?
Kara Swisher · 29:41
I would be happy to have coffee with him and give him my thoughts on the Internet, but no thank you on the... I'm not raising any money for him.
Scott Galloway · 29:46
Come on.
Kara Swisher · 29:47
Thank you very much.
Scott Galloway · 29:48
Come on. No. Am of Kara. That stuff. Look look at me.
Kara Swisher · 29:51
Yeah. Well, you can go. Alright. I have to go. Scott, I have to go talk to Barry Dillard. I'm gonna send him your way or his people or his minions. You'll be heard of... You'll be in the Hudson under that island.
Scott Galloway · 30:02
He's I I will take on Tucker, not Barry. Send Tucker.
Kara Swisher · 30:06
You are out for the... You are... Go deal with Tucker for me. Okay? Go on that show and slap him around. Alright, Scott. You're gonna be out for the next couple of weeks, globetrotting. So we'll have some guest hosts in your absence who will be, I'm sure, much better than you.
Scott Galloway · 30:18
Low bar. Low bar. Where
Kara Swisher · 30:20
are you going? Where are you going?
Scott Galloway · 30:22
I'm going to Dubai, Kenya, Tanzania, and Rwanda.
Kara Swisher · 30:25
Oh my god. You're to Dubai where they... Did you see that story about
Scott Galloway · 30:28
the princess? Are you shaming me? Should I not be going? I shouldn't You shouldn't
Kara Swisher · 30:32
be going.
Scott Galloway · 30:32
I'm gonna go and spend a lot of money and meet a lot of nice people. I need some great food.
Kara Swisher · 30:35
You need to read that story
Scott Galloway · 30:36
about them.
Kara Swisher · 30:37
Ugh. They're so anti women. They're so anti
Scott Galloway · 30:39
A, I'm not that interested. And b, if I read it and they catch me... Catch it on me, I might... You might not No. You need never hear from me again.
Kara Swisher · 30:45
You need to read it. You need to read it. You're... I'm gonna send it to you. You're gonna read before you go. And then where else are you going? Dubai, which I will never go to again.
Scott Galloway · 30:51
But go ahead. Dubai. Dubai's like Vegas minus the charm.
Kara Swisher · 30:54
No. Don't wanna talk to you. No. You wish to read this story. I'm not gonna speak to you to read this story. So what's the other question?
Scott Galloway · 30:59
Tanzania, Rwanda. Yeah. Wow. That's such
Speaker · 31:03
a trip.
Kara Swisher · 31:03
Fantastic. Are you
Speaker · 31:04
taking your kids?
Scott Galloway · 31:05
It's my wife's birthday, and she's always wanted to go to Africa. So no kids.
Kara Swisher · 31:09
Alright. Bring back some tech and media stories. I want you, like... Yes. Bring back some tech and media stories about what... How they're using Internet and stuff like that there. I would like some I don't want homework. Perspective.
Scott Galloway · 31:18
I don't want homework.
Kara Swisher · 31:19
What... Okay. Global perspective from those horrible Dubai and and those places. Okay? Alright. I would love to hear that. Rebecca Sinanis produces his show. Nishat Kerwa is the executive producer. Thanks also to Eric Johnson. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week. More of a breakdown of all things tech and business. If you like what you heard, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. Thanks very much.
Speaker · 31:55
Hey, everyone. This is Rebecca, Pivot producer extraordinaire. So as soon as we got out of recording this episode, news broke that Amazon is pulling HQ two out of New York. So Karen and Scott are gonna come back in for a bonus episode hot take on what all of this means, and it'll be in your feed later today. So stay tuned for that. And Bezos, if you're listening, quit messing with my production schedule.
