Guest · 1:04:09
Do it. How
Kara Swisher · 1:04:09
have how have, say, these tech companies tried to put differences between... I'm assuming the... Giving bigger salaries than, say, a restaurant or or something else. Talk about what they've done that's been effective and maybe something that's... Looks like it's effective but isn't really for the workers.
Guest · 1:04:25
Well, just to come back to Amazon, one of their most fatal flaws that they made was trying straight out the gate to paint Christian Small, the president of the independent Amazon Labor Union. They, you know, they tried to paint him as inarticulate, as uneducated. They were being mentioned racist classes, jerks about it. And wonder of wonders, that did not resonate with the working class black and brown membership of that union, the workforce at that factory. Like, this is they... They've tried to find a scapegoat and they burst a leader. You know? This is the kind of thing that companies do because they don't understand what it's like to do those jobs. They don't understand what it's like to be struggling in that way. They haven't had to break a sweat in twenty years probably, you know. And what they... One of the things that they would do, at the Bessemer warehouse that did unfortunately prove effective because folks maybe didn't have as much of a firm understanding and base in the union tradition because it's so hard to unionize there. They they third party the union. They they put out all these flyers as propaganda saying, oh, this is a New York City union coming down here to Bama to try and, you know, take your money and tell you what to do. And in some ways, that worked. It was really unfortunate, but it was also BS, we'll say. And we can see how the... Those kinds of divide and conquer tactics, sometimes they work. But if you inoculate against them, if you have something to show for, if it's easier to shut that down, then, like, it doesn't... It's not as effective.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:50
You know, before Scott gets the next question, when he... They did that to Kristen Smalls, I know a lot of... I was like, stop it. He's fantastic. I had spent some time talking to him, and I was like, this is a huge mistake. He is not... He is so effective, and we'd had him on Twitter Spaces a bunch of time. I talked to him a bit, and it was really amazing how stupid that was. I remember saying this is the stupidest thing. Like, do not discount this guy. He's really sharp as a tack.
Guest · 1:06:16
Like, literally, how would you not want a leader like that who comes from the community, who's, like, handsome, who's cool, who, like, doesn't wear a suit? Like, that's the kind of labor movement I would be a part of. I don't care what guys in suits have to say, and a lot of people don't either.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:29
He also was nobody's friend. Like, you know, he pushed back against AOC and others too. He wasn't... That was what I thought was super effective about him. He was he was he was going for the worker. I thought that was a very interesting... He's a very interesting, leader. Scott, go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 1:06:45
So last administration, very anti labor. We'd like to think this administration is very pro labor. What would you ask for from the Biden administration that they aren't doing? Or what are you hoping to get out of the next two and a half years from the Biden administration and... Or hopefully six and a half years?
Guest · 1:07:01
Assuming they do anything, I need... They need to pour resources into the NLRB, beef it up, make it tough and
Kara Swisher · 1:07:08
This is the national labor relations National Labor Relations support.
Guest · 1:07:12
They need staff. They need money. They need support. They need to be able to enforce these contracts and to be there for workers that reach out to them and file elections. I mean, there's like 200 Starbucks across the country that have filed elections and are going through elections. Like, that is a lot of staff and a lot of lifts. And they need to... I mean, obviously, raise the minimum wage. Raise... Like, give people health care. Actually, do something about the climate. It's not like if you wanna be for the workers, do things that help workers instead of, like, make nice headlines or make the Republicans hate you a little bit less.
Scott Galloway · 1:07:42
You sound dis... You sound disappointed in the administration's efforts today. Does that accurate? Am I reading that act... Accurately?
Guest · 1:07:48
The... I would say the one good thing that the... Well, I don't know that much about it. I don't really care what Democrats get up to. Right? But one of the most positive things I've seen from this administration is the pro labor stance and some of the pro labor moves and Mhmm. The appointment of Jennifer Aburuza as general counsel to MLRB. That is a big deal. That is great. If they can just keep doing that kind of thing, that will help. That will get us to close to where we need to be. They just have to put their money where their mouth is and also go after these tech oligarchs that are trying to grind us all into dust.
Kara Swisher · 1:08:17
I love that. So talk about the minimum wage. Scott has a thing where he talks about the ridiculousness of the minimum wage going from $7.25 to $7.25. Well, these oligarchs make a lot of money, like... Which is really astonishing. Talk about what needs to be done there. It seems like that's... That would be the most important thing government can do.
Guest · 1:08:38
Tax all the rich people that are oppressing us. Take their money and give it to the people that made it. These people that sit in c suites and then issue press releases and play pussy with the government, they're not working. They're exploiting. They're benefiting from the labor of the working class. $7.25 is a joke. $15 an hour is nothing. Like, even... I'm I'm not an economic expert, but, like, things cost more. And Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are fine, whereas workers in the picket line are struggling to pay their bills or buy food at the grocery store. That is not fair. Like the minimum wage should be at least $25 or $30 an hour. People can't live like this. And after a certain point, the people at the top that expect to benefit from us and our work and our labor, they're going to find out that, you know, you can only push people so far before they either do something about it or they dip out entirely. You know? Scott?
Scott Galloway · 1:09:34
So first off, word. I agree with you at some point, the comity of man being American means dignity and work. And inflation has up 30%. The NASDAQ's quintupled. CEO pay is up 7x. And minimum wages exploded from $7.25 to $7.25. I worry that when we turn it into what feels like a class argument, I mean, said attacks the people who are exploiting us. I worry that we lose allies and that we should make more of a capitalist argument that we need to bring people back into the labor.
Guest · 1:10:05
Allies? This class war.
Scott Galloway · 1:10:07
Well, if we position it that way, I think we lose. Because I'm on your side, but I'm trying to figure out how we position it as a capitalist argument that we need more people to be drawn back into the labor force, that when we don't pay people a living wage, they end up in the emergency room, they end up with mental health problems, they end up in a vet hospital, that this is just smart economically. That rather than going after the morality of it, that we go after the economics.
Guest · 1:10:33
Look, I would say like just to to build on what you're saying
Scott Galloway · 1:10:37
Yep.
Guest · 1:10:37
A union worker is a happier and better paid and healthier worker. Right? That's the worker you want in your workforce, in your factory, in your shop. Like, it is... It makes good business sense to make sure that workers are healthy and mentally prepared to do their labor. They're not stressed. They're not falling apart. They're not worried about making it home to pick up their child. Like, it's... Tormenting and exploiting workers doesn't help anybody. No. You know? Like, we should have learned that back in the Gilded Age, but here we are in in the sequel.
Kara Swisher · 1:11:03
Yeah. Yeah. The sequel. It's interesting. I know you've to go. One of the things I always tell a lot of these people, you've either got to figure this out and soon, with cooperative working with workers and paying them what they deserve, or you might as well armor plate your Tesla because that's where it's going.
Guest · 1:11:17
Like There's a lot more of us than there are of them.
Kara Swisher · 1:11:20
Alright. We'll leave it on that. This is a book by, Kim Kelly. Her book is called Fight Like Hell. It sounds like she's going to. The Untold Story of American Labor. There it is. Thank you for putting it up. You can find Kim Kelly on Twitter at grimkim. Is that right?
Scott Galloway · 1:11:35
Grim Kim. Good for you.
Kara Swisher · 1:11:38
That's a good one. I like that. All right. Thank you, Kim Kelly, and thank you so much. Everybody should read this. It's a very important topic, and it is absolutely true. We have to figure something out here because it's not gonna stay the same at all. And these workers deserve much more attention in the whole... In the entire stack that happens here rather than just celebrate the the tech oligarchs, and I think that's the perfect name for them. Alright, Kim. Thank you so much.
Scott Galloway · 1:12:03
Thanks, Kim. Nice to meet you.
Kara Swisher · 1:12:05
Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
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— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 1:13:14
Okay, Scott, let's hear some predictions. Go for it. What do you got for me? Besides, you're not going to be on CNN plus for the future.
Scott Galloway · 1:13:21
I'm definitely off. I'm two Scaramouches and one quarter of Quibi. By the way, I want to apologize to everyone at Quibi. I was like dancing on their grave before it was over, and now I'm getting attacked rightfully for saying that. Look, I think what you're seeing in the growthy part of the market, I mean, everything from PayPal to, you know, we talked about it, to Netflix is... Or all this stuff's off 70%. Mhmm. The streaming market, the content market is about to get taken to the woodshed. It's just gonna be so fucking ugly. There's gonna be so many layoffs all of a sudden, everyone's figured out spending $3,000 per household to deliver these. There has never been a better time to have a couch and be into edibles, and the party's over. You're about to see enormous consolidation and radical cost cutting at the biggest and strongest. I mean, it'll be everyone, maybe with the exception of Apple TV plus and Amazon Prime Video, because they have just literally infinitely deep pockets.
Kara Swisher · 1:14:22
Which might take advantage of the situation.
Scott Galloway · 1:14:23
Yeah. Who knows? They might come in. But and also I think Discovery stock with a $55,000,000,000 overhang, gosh, I think that's gonna be an interesting stock to watch. And my prediction is comes back to the
Kara Swisher · 1:14:36
same What about Netflix as a possibly being bought? Boy, would Apple love to pick that up or Amazon.
Scott Galloway · 1:14:43
Well, I think Google and Facebook would have liked Twitter, but the problem is the logical buyer of Netflix probably can't because of antitrust. Yeah. But I mean, I think what you're gonna have here... So... And I've said this before, and I'll double down on it. The current structure of discovery is not... Does not survive twenty four months. There's just so many great assets, so much debt, a weird shareholder base, and a single class of shares, meaning you can get an activist. And you've got a CEO who's gone Hollywood and has moved to LA.
Kara Swisher · 1:15:15
This is Bill Cohen's column today.
Scott Galloway · 1:15:17
Is that right? I haven't read it.
Kara Swisher · 1:15:18
Yeah. No. I know. It's like he has that... He has different thoughts, but he he thinks they have a real rough road ahead of them, I would say.
Scott Galloway · 1:15:26
Yeah. And I think they're gonna they're gonna have to find ways to monetize some of these assets and that the disposition of some of these assets will be accretive. And similar to what happened to Stankey, where Stankey woke up and had too much debt and assets that aren't performing to the expectations of when they bought them, I think Discovery is gonna wake up and realize that these assets, that the the hole here is less than the sum of its parts. There's some amazing assets within this corporate structure.
Kara Swisher · 1:15:51
Yes. Yep.
Scott Galloway · 1:15:52
And, anyways, I I... My prediction is Discovery. Enjoy it while you... You're the dog that caught the car. And guess what? That car's not slowing down, and it's gonna get away with you. They're gonna have to make some moves other than cost cutting here. And I think you're gonna see an activist come in when the stock hits
Kara Swisher · 1:16:08
Interesting. When the stock hits.
Scott Galloway · 1:16:10
Let me
Kara Swisher · 1:16:11
make a picture myself.
Scott Galloway · 1:16:12
Yes.
Kara Swisher · 1:16:12
You don't have Scott Galloway to kick around anymore, see?
Scott Galloway · 1:16:14
That's right.
Kara Swisher · 1:16:15
And let me just... Let me tell people something. I'm gonna make a statement. That show was terrific, and you know I insult you when they suck. I didn't like your other shows.
Scott Galloway · 1:16:22
Thank you for saying that, Kathy. It's a lot to It
Guest · 1:16:24
was a
Kara Swisher · 1:16:24
really well done show. I didn't like every bit of it. Did I give you, like, pretty good criticism of the parts I didn't like just like I did with Jon Stewart?
Scott Galloway · 1:16:30
Casual. You were casually insulting.
Kara Swisher · 1:16:32
Insulting. Let me just say it was a great show. And Thank
Scott Galloway · 1:16:34
you so for sharing
Kara Swisher · 1:16:34
that. Anyone that wants to, like, kick Scott Galloway better, you gotta go through me.
Scott Galloway · 1:16:40
That's right. That's right. I am such the chick in this relationship. I am sensitive and needy.
Kara Swisher · 1:16:45
I know. Do not fuck with me on this issue.
Scott Galloway · 1:16:48
Thank God. Seriously. Yes. Your opinion and affirmation means a lot to me, Kara. So thank you.
Kara Swisher · 1:16:52
Yes. No more man in the street for you, but we are gonna make a hit show. You'll see. You'll see. We will.
Scott Galloway · 1:16:57
Yeah. Old man with erectile dysfunction in the street. No? Yes. No?
Kara Swisher · 1:17:01
But it was a good show and there were several good shows on that network and I think those people deserve and that people who helped make them deserve kudos. It was not anything to do with the content. It wasn't terrible content. Same with Quibi. By the way, there was some very good stuff on Quibi. So for those creative people, you'll be fine. It may be a little hard for a little bit, but stop kicking them around. They didn't... The content wasn't the problem. It's economics all the way.
Scott Galloway · 1:17:26
There you go.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 1:17:26
Anyway, so don't forget, we want to hear from our listeners. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit your questions for us or call 85551 The link is also in our show notes. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more. Can you read us out?
Scott Galloway · 1:17:42
Today's show was produced by Lara Naaman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertaut engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Emile Severo. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems.
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Kara Swisher · 1:19:08
only.
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