— Predictions segment begins —
Scott Galloway · 28:45
Legislation, they're really if they're really honest about the need for regulation, I'd like them all to raise their hands and come to a gentle person's agreement that they're gonna find a way to watermark AI, and they're not going to use AI generated imagery pre the presidential election leading up
Kara Swisher · 29:00
There's to the some legislation.
Scott Galloway · 29:03
But the legislation likely won't happen. And I think we're about to see the mother of all AI generated misinformation Lollapalooza in Q1 or Q2 of next year as Putin realizes the fastest blue line path to victory in Ukraine is to get Trump reelected, and they'll start generating enormously damaging images and deepfakes and videos and content that's been AI tested that depositions Biden and Harris. So I think that it's gonna come. And then all the big tech firms will cash their check, and come November 5, they'll decide that they should have taken more action and wring their hands and say, we're sorry. We need to do better in 2028.
Kara Swisher · 29:38
Agreed. I just like to see one piece of legislation.
Scott Galloway · 29:40
Remove it from two thirty protections. If it's AI generated and you elevate it, if you if you algorithmically elevate AI generated content, it no longer has a shield of two thirty. Let's start there.
Kara Swisher · 29:51
You don't think there should be a tech department that regulates tech just like the FCC.
Scott Galloway · 29:54
Yeah. But that's not gonna happen in the next six months. That might happen, and I do think there might be at some point a head of AI and NATO and an AI person. But by the time they inform the president, by the time they go on their listening tour, you're talking about legislation maybe in two years. We need q one and q two when the GRU... When Putin realizes it's easier to spend 7,000,000,000 than 70,000,000,000 to try and swing the American election, and they have a lot of scientists. They're very smart. They're very strategic. You're gonna see just... You're... You wanna see AI, what AI does? We're gonna know what it did after the election when all of a sudden it comes out.
Kara Swisher · 30:32
And by the way, it worked just fine with the shitty technology. Right? You know, propaganda works. You know? Anyway, we'll see. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Google going on trial and take a listener mail question about networking successfully.
— Predictions segment ends —
[Ad break]
Kara Swisher · 32:37
Scott, we're back with our second big story. The first monopoly trial of the modern Internet era is now underway, US v Google. At the center of the case, did Google abuse its power and kill the competition by paying companies to be the default search engine on devices and platforms? The government says yes with more than 90% of the market share. Google says it dominates because their product is just better. The trial's expected to last three months with Google CEO Sundar Pichai, another executive expected to testify. Sundar will be back. I wouldn't mind Sundar coming over for a sleepover. He can come to my house. He's a nice guy.
Scott Galloway · 33:09
You like Sundar?
Kara Swisher · 33:10
Yeah. He's a nice guy. Who would I have over? I'd have Sundar, Sam, Reid Hoffman, I guess.
Scott Galloway · 33:14
Who's your favorite tech? That's an interesting question. Who's who's Kara Swisher's favorite tech tech icon?
Kara Swisher · 33:19
That is a good question.
Scott Galloway · 33:21
Who would you not have a beer with because you don't drink?
Kara Swisher · 33:23
I... Mark Cuban. Mark? Mark Cuban at this moment. Yeah. I really enjoy him. I think he speaks his mind, and I... We disagree often, actually.
Scott Galloway · 33:31
He's not really a tech guy, I mean, sort of.
Kara Swisher · 33:33
I like I like Sundar. I like Satya. I have a whole chapter in my upcoming book about... Like, there are people I like. There's a number of them. Brian Chesky, I like.
Scott Galloway · 33:42
I I would argue, Kara, that a a lot of people's journalists feel that way, and that's part of the reason they're CEOs. Is that
Kara Swisher · 33:49
Oh, yeah.
Scott Galloway · 33:49
Susan Machicki, Sheryl Sandberg, Sundar Pichai, I think they make I think they make tens of millions because they're outstanding managers, but they make billions because they're heat shields for the mendacious Fox that have started those companies.
Kara Swisher · 34:01
Oh, yes. Well, yes. Yes. That's about right. You got it right. I'm just talking about people on a personal basis. Anyway, it's okay to like or dislike them. It's fine. I think... You know, I'm with Christiane Amanpour, who just, of course, did forty years at CNN.
Scott Galloway · 34:14
She's been at CNN forty years?
Kara Swisher · 34:16
Forty years. Wow. Truthful, not neutral. I love that. She's she's fantastic. I do. She's great. She's amazing. She's she's the GOAT. Anyway, the trial's effect of the last three months. So we'll we'll... What do you think about this? What do you make of these arguments by the government and also Google? Another part of Google's argument is that their competition is not just other search engines, but companies like Amazon, DoorDash, Expedia. This is an argument Amazon uses, actually. There's so much retail. It's not just us. What what do you think? What do you think? And a lot of people don't like all these payment numbers, coming out. Apple certainly doesn't. You know, this $10,000,000,000 or $20,000,000,000 whatever they spent.
Scott Galloway · 34:52
I would argue one of two things happen. Either they find that the law... That that in a court of law that the DOJ does not have the right to break them up, which to me says they're either broken up, which I think will be the correct interpretation of the law. But if they they decide they should not be broken up, I would argue we need new laws.
Kara Swisher · 35:11
Well, it's a narrower case about these deals, but go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 35:13
But okay. No one else can afford to pay Apple $20,000,000,000 to be the default search engine, and then no one else gets that level of data and can pull ahead of everybody and then spend $30,000,000,000 to lock up those key channels. And let's let's try and bring it down to, well, what impact does this have on the world regardless of the laws or antitrust or monopoly abuse? Let's look... Let's go stakeholder by stakeholder. First, let's talk about shareholders. Because at the end of the day, shareholders usually decide these things. Anytime there's a breakup of companies like this, within a few years, much less ten years, the shareholders benefit. The baby bells were all worth more than the original AT and T within a decade. When eBay spun PayPal, PayPal ended up being worth exponentially more. Shareholders win and break up. So let's talk about the employees. Employees compensation goes up because now there's more firms that have to compete to rent their human capital. Let's talk about the Commonwealth. I believe if YouTube and Meta were not monopolies, they would not be radicalizing young men or sending suicidal ideation images of pills, bottles, and razors because P and G would have the opportunity to advertise on platforms that aren't hurting young people. Let's talk about the founders. Here's the only stakeholder that loses, the one that controls the company because once you're worth 40 or $60,000,000,000, you don't care about being worth 70 or 80, you want to sit on the iron throne. So shareholders, the country, employees, the tax base, the number of startups, the venture capital ecosystem, innovation, every stakeholder wins in a breakup with the exception of the person who controls the company through dual class shareholders. The breakup distinct to the morality of the secret monopoly abuse, the fastest way to oxygenate our economy on the tech side would be to break up these companies. And if you wanna talk about what ails our country, it's the fact that young people are making less money and everything has gotten more expensive. And one of the things that has gotten more expensive is the monopoly rents these firms are charging on corporations. Thank you for my TED Talk.
Kara Swisher · 37:09
This is true. Yep. Thank you. I think... I agree with you. I think this is a 100... You know, I was talking... I I saw a lot of people yesterday from both sides of this case, and I've just interviewed John Cantor and and others. And, you know, the Google side, of course, is like, well, we're doing good things. This is the... La la la. And I'm... I keep saying 91%. I'm sorry. I don't know. Well, you don't have... You can have 91% and not be hurtful. I'm like, can you? Like, it it just is... It seems like I I just can't get past that number, right, and across the globe. And and I don't care. They they can make their arguments. There's other search companies. There aren't. There aren't. They just... And they're never... They never will happen. You know, NEVA closed, they just won't happen. There's no reason for them. And these things do tend towards a network. Their argument of... The government's argument that these deals couldn't be made by anyone, so think it's a pretty good one. I don't know what they're gonna do, unwind them, make it... Make an iPhone. I think probably what might happen is you get the iPhone, and you're like, which of these do you wanna use? And then Google will be on there like a voting thing. But it doesn't matter at this point. It's too late.
Scott Galloway · 38:11
But if you look at the history of antitrust, breakups work really well. But almost as effective is just the scrutiny you're under once the antitrust case is underway. Why? So initially, the Microsoft judgment to break up the company was overturned.
Kara Swisher · 38:27
Very different case, but go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 38:28
Okay. I'm talking about the effects of antitrust when there's an order or a remedy is to break up the company. And in the instance of Microsoft, it was overturned. However, however, the consent decree they ultimately ended up signing stopped them from bundling and putting small search companies out of business. Google was born of antitrust enforcement. If we didn't have a proud legacy in our nation of understanding the power corrupts and going in and breaking up companies when they become too powerful, we'd all be saying, I don't know. Bang it. Google, it cynical from the outset for Google not to recognize that antitrust is why they are as powerful as they are, and we need to frame it from
Kara Swisher · 39:10
No. Scott, they did it because they're better. They are better too. That's... By the way, they did create a great search engine. That's that's the problem. Great.
Scott Galloway · 39:17
That's exactly right. But what... But antitrust and breakup needs to be perceived not as punishment, but as recognition.
Kara Swisher · 39:24
Right. But let me say, I don't think that's what's gonna happen here. I don't think this is what the... This has been made into a much smaller trial. You're comparing it to the Microsoft trial. The one similarity is that it's a bench trial, which is not a jury trial. It's up to one person. Just Microsoft was judge Penfield Jackson, Thomas Penfield Jackson. This is judge Amit Mehta, to make a ruling. Very well regarded judge. By the way, I talked to both sides this last couple of days. They both think a lot of him. He's... Was appointed by Barack Obama in 2014. He's been very careful. He's been very quiet, very thoughtful. I think they both think he's quite a good judge. So there's no yelling about that. But it's one person who's gonna decide this, and the question is how much can he... What can he actually do that really matters? And that's that's, I think, the thing most people were talking about is since it's so limited to distribution and not there is another advertising case being investigated. Like, it's not a mega case. It's not a mega case, and that's the that's the thing. And and the justice department, murderer, Kenneth Dinser, said this case is about the future of the Internet. I think the future of the Internet was before when they had a chance to really do something. I'm not so sure they can do anything now.
Scott Galloway · 40:35
Yeah. Look. I think so many wonderful things would happen. I think if you forced... And I... This... I don't think this case directly... It might be a remedy, but say they forced Alphabet to spin YouTube. I think within ninety days at the first corporate off-site, the folks at an independent YouTube say, how do we grow revenues? Let's create a text based search company. We're really good at this. And then I think Google, an independent company, goes, let's start another video based search platform. And overnight, you have two credible players in video search and text based search, which lowers the rents on corporations and creates more jobs.
Kara Swisher · 41:09
Sure. But that's not an issue here.
Scott Galloway · 41:11
But it's a remedy.
Kara Swisher · 41:13
Is it of this one? No. It's not, actually. But, you know, I I don't think he can force this on them. Anyway, we'll see what happens here. It's gonna go on. There's gonna be a lot of these cases, whether it's Apple or Amazon and others. And it's just this... The the the wheels of justice move very slowly, and it's it's too late. Okay, Scott. Let's pivot to a listener question.
[Ad break]
Kara Swisher · 41:37
This question comes from Daniel. Hi, Kara and Scott. Thank you for all your great work. Your podcasts are always insightful, inspiring, and entertaining. I'm so lucky to get to attend Code this year, which is taking place in another week or so, in California. Working as the head of a technical department at a large public media company in Scandinavia has been a dream... This has been a dream of mine for several years. I expect to be outgunned at the event with my current position, but I cannot wait to get to know people from the international tech world. Have you any advice for a 36 year old European attending an event like this? Keep up the great work. Both of you have an important inspiration for me, both personally and professionally. Kindly, Daniel. Well, thank you for coming, Daniel. You should have come last year, my last year. The big show. It was a big... Wasn't big
Scott Galloway · 42:17
Everybody was there.
Kara Swisher · 42:18
Yeah. They were. The business has definitely changed since I, frankly, innovated it many, many decades ago.
Scott Galloway · 42:25
If you don't say so yourself. I
Kara Swisher · 42:26
do say so myself. I think I did. I think everyone copied everything we did. But I got out of it, which is interesting. But talk about networking advice because there is... You know, there was a weird Wall Street Journal article saying people don't wanna socialize after work, which I think is one of... Those trend stories always make. I'm like, really? Everybody? I just think people aren't with each other. Talk about networking advice, especially... You know, you can do them at a conference or at work or what is... It is important. There is something important to gatherings.
Scott Galloway · 42:54
I do thirty minutes on this in my class in brand strategy under the brand as you session I do. And first, let me just talk about on a very meta level. We're mammals, And one of the things that is really ailing our society is a total decline in third places. And while these third places are sequestered for most people who can't afford to come to these things, I think anything that gets people together and has random encounters, and you see that that person who were... You know, I met someone who works at Meta yesterday, and I spent some time with with her, and you just realize, you know, for the most part, these are good people. And you meet people... I I met the... I I think I told you. I met the guy who's starting this UK basketball league. It's just inspiring. And he's... We're gonna go to a football game with our kids. It's just... It's important that we bump off of each other and smell and touch each other on a specific level as it relates to networking. If you think about brands and how brands are built, you could largely trifurcate it into pre purchase branding, think of broadcast advertising before you engage with a customer, then distribution, when you go into a store and you actually wanna buy the product, and then post purchase what happens after you're part of the community. Generally speaking, the first part, pre purchase, is over invested because people like to think if I just find the right cool people wearing black and I have a great new ad campaign by a guy named Don Draper, I can take my marginal product and increase share. That dog won't hunt. It is overinvested. The ROI on pre purchase has declined dramatically. Then Apple moved to took it $6,500,000,000 of pre purchase branding, stuck it into distribution, created 550 temples to the brands. And then the gangster of all of them, the tobacco industry, once they got, it was illegal to do pre purchase or in store branding, moved to database marketing and Marlboro points, and then could sense whether you were trying to give up smoking and started sending you points and coupons to keep you getting emphysema. Anyways, in terms of your own brand and your own personal networking, what is overinvested is how much emphasis you place on in person. We're all obsessed with personal interactions, and that's important. But in terms of where you invest your networking, one, the really smart networkers before the conference will get a list of everyone they want to meet, and they'll ping them with a note. And they'll say, hi, I'm going be at this conference. I'd really love to meet. And they do some pre purchase investing. And then they're there, and they work hard, and they try to be charming. And then the other place people don't invest is post purchase. You meet somebody and you follow-up. Hey, it was great to meet you. You know, I just got a message today. It was great to meet you. Do you wanna catch an arsenal game? And I'm like, that's an easy yes, and I'm probably gonna get to know this person. So networking, people tend to focus too much on the in person interaction, but the real ROI is in the prepurchase. Quick email. I'm gonna be at this conference. Do wanna grab coffee? And then the post purchase to follow-up.
Kara Swisher · 45:36
Mhmm. I love that, Scott. I was wondering where this was going, and then you landed it. You handed that fucking airplane. I was like, where is he going with the pre purchase, book purchase emphysema situation? But thank you for bringing emphysema into the conversation. I don't know what to say. I'm not I'm not, I'm a good networker, networker, I I guess, guess, but but I think you're right. You have to be... One of the things I used to tell people... And I have showed up at a lot of events. I go to a lot of things, or I used to much more than I do now, but that's because I do... I wanna meet less people.
Scott Galloway · 46:05
I I am so with you. I feel so bad. I have a quick story about that. I saw Joanna Coles at my Cheers in New York at the Crosby Hotel. We're doing a power breakfast, and Joanna's like, Scott, come over here. I can't wait to introduce you to all these really interesting people. And I'm like, I don't wanna meet anybody. And the whole table's been quiet. I'm like, I'm about my kids and writing. I do not wanna meet anybody. And then I felt... And then I sat in my lunch I met with this guy starting this super impressive meal. And the whole breakfast
Kara Swisher · 46:31
I was Joanna.
Scott Galloway · 46:32
We went over the whole breakfast. I'm like, That was so fucking rude. And I had to go back and say, Joanna, I'm sorry. I just don't Yeah.
Kara Swisher · 46:36
I know. I'm with you, sir.
Scott Galloway · 46:38
This is what the two of us have to remember. We're in such a position of blessings that people come up to us. I literally don't have to approach anybody anymore. People come up to me and say hi, and they're really friendly and nice. And it's really important that you don't take that for granted and that you're not only really warm to people who come up to you, but occasionally, occasionally, what the hell, make an effort. Because it's so easy to become a bit of a snob and just lose your mojo and lose your friendliness and lose your... And expect people to treat you as if you're famous or nice. And I find myself... I went to this dinner last night. I walked in, everyone was sitting down at this IMG dinner, and I immediately, like, walked out. And this woman... This young woman named Henny ran after me, grabbed me, sat me down, introduced her to people. At the end of dinner, I'm like, this is so important that there's people like you to handle spoiled jerks like me.
Kara Swisher · 47:32
Yeah. Yeah. Well, people don't realize. You're quite shy. You're quite shy, actually.
Scott Galloway · 47:37
Yeah. But you know something? I wasn't when I needed to make money.
Kara Swisher · 47:39
Right.
Scott Galloway · 47:40
I was younger and my ability to meet people was my ability to build wealth, I found the mojo to be friendlier.
Kara Swisher · 47:48
You did. But I said, as as a person... People are always surprised when I say that. I'm... He's actually a little shyer than you. They think you're standoffish sometimes. I'm like, no. He's shy. Like, don't mistake it.
Scott Galloway · 47:58
I don't think it's either of those. I just don't like people, Kara.
Kara Swisher · 48:00
Oh, okay. Alright. Alright. Well, then there you have it. Perpetually Dissatisfied by Walter Isaacson. That could be a book.
Scott Galloway · 48:09
People think I'm gonna be so lively and entertaining and funny, and they're like, Jesus Christ. He's so boring.
Kara Swisher · 48:15
They do. You're like a comic. You know, like Johnny Carson was not was not funny
Scott Galloway · 48:20
in Yeah. No. I'm... My my... Yeah. Everyone in my life's like, we wish you were that guy in the podcast.
Kara Swisher · 48:26
I know. It's true. It was true. But I'll hear you. That's the way it goes. Anyway, just... I think Scott's advice is excellent. I would say... I would... I I was... I'm very networky, but I tend to just ask a lot of questions of people, get to know them. And you never know where you're gonna meet someone super interesting. That is one thing. I always... I'm always like, oh, I didn't wanna do that, and then I find some little tidbits, something. I went to a party last... Two parties last night, actually, with Amanda, And I wanted to bring her because she's... You know, she works for the Washington Post in the opinion section. I'm like, you could meet people that could maybe write things. You know? You don't know who you're gonna... Very interesting viewpoints. And afterwards, we went to a party at the French embassy, which is the best place to go to a party ever in Washington.
Scott Galloway · 49:08
I went to a party at the French embassy.
Kara Swisher · 49:10
It was for it was for Xfinity about the Olympics coming up in Paris. That's why they had it there. And I ran into four or five people I was really glad to hear different little things from, and it was it was interesting. I was... I didn't wanna go, then I was like, oh, I'm glad I went kinda thing. Anyway anyway, come say hello to me, Daniel. I will be at code. It takes place September twenty sixth and twenty seventh in California, as I said. You can still apply to attend at voxmedia.com/code2020five.
Scott Galloway · 49:37
Ad? I feel so fooled.
Kara Swisher · 49:38
It's not. No. No. Don't... You're not. No. But it's actually a good question.
Scott Galloway · 49:41
No. It's not. Sincere. Does he even exist, or is this just a big is this just a big marketing ploy?
Kara Swisher · 49:47
Yes. It's Jim Bank... Daniel, aka Jim Bankoff. No. I think it's... No. But, no, but it is interesting. It's an
Scott Galloway · 49:53
interesting topic. In what is the premier technology conference taking place this year?
Kara Swisher · 49:57
You can... Listen. Let me just say, go to any of them. The Journal has one coming up. There's a whole bunch of them coming up. The Atlantic has one that looks interesting. Bloomberg constantly having them. All of them. You go to whatever event you want. You do not have to come to code. You can go to whatever you want. And like Scott, you go on Bill Maher if you really want to, but probably won't be invited. Anyway, Scott will, but not you, Daniel. But, anyway, thank you for your question. If you've got a question of your own you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show, or call 85551 Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. I hope you're ready today.
[Ad break]
Kara Swisher · 51:24
Okay, Scott. Let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like to go first?
Scott Galloway · 51:28
You go first. I haven't thought about it yet.
Kara Swisher · 51:30
Well, my win is Christiane Amampur. She's just the GOAT. Forty years, just still as sharp as a text, still really doing it. She's been everywhere, all over the place. I think she's... She has a real sense of moral outrage still, which I think is good about... Especially around really terrible places she's been. And she's done some really serious on the ground reporting. I think she's just a legend. Fails? I don't think I have one. Let me think about it. You go you go next.
Scott Galloway · 52:00
My win is senator Mitt Romney. He's decided to step down at the adolescent age of 76. I think he's a really impressive good man. Married for fifty three years. He was a missionary in France. And actually, I don't know if you know this, I love Mormons. I absolutely love Mormons. I was raised with Mormons. Touch homophobic and racist, but other than that, I love the Church of Latter day Saints. And I grew up with Mormons, they were super into their family, super into their country, a lot of emphasis on success and sports, it was just such a positive influence on me. Anyways, Senator Romney, married fifty three years, owes a life of public service combined with the guy was a baller professionally. Bank Capital, I think he was the founder of Bank Capital, and then decided to go into public service. And I think he's always demonstrated, regardless of what you think of his politics, I think he's always demonstrated a decent amount of grace and courage. And the Republican Party just no longer recognizes him.
Kara Swisher · 53:00
I would recommend people to The Atlantic story. A guy's been following him for two years for a book there, an Atlantic writer. And I have to say it's quite some some story. The book should be amazing. Didn't wanna read a Mitt Romney book, but it looks fantastic.
Scott Galloway · 53:14
Go ahead. The guy's going in the way it came out. Whatever his name, representative Santos walked by him and Senator Romney. And it's not easy to do this. It's easy to talk this way behind people's back. He said, young man, you should be ashamed of yourself. And he wasn't mean. He wasn't going on TikTok and calling him names. He said it to his face. And I I think he's had a life of service and professional success and five sons, you know, fifth... Five decade long marriage. I... And we were talking about networking. I grew up with a lot of Mormons. I think mission and service are such fantastic training vehicles because, I mean, what do you get when you combine a Jehovah's Witness and a Mormon? I don't know, but I can't get this guy off my porch. It teaches them to be really aggressive and friendly and endure rejection. And I think that is a gift for a young person. I think every young person should be in a retail job where they face the public so they can endure people being rude to them and develop empathy for what it means to be serving people. And also, think every young person should be forced to be in some sort of sales job because what it shows you is that you can survive rejection, and it gives you the mojo and the aggression you need to be successful. And mission is kind of that. You wanna talk about rejection? Have you ever had missionaries knock on your door?
Kara Swisher · 54:33
Yes. They do not stay long.
Scott Galloway · 54:35
Oh, I invite them in. I love I love missionaries. Anyways, I regaled them with stories about how I played on the church softball team and that my first kiss was with Libby Pettit, who was in the church.
Kara Swisher · 54:46
Oh, no.
Scott Galloway · 54:47
And that was literally as far as it went, see above Mormon. Okay. But I think that, going back to networking, I think at a young age to have that sort of international experience, learn another language, That's why I'm a big fan of national service. So anyways, senator senator Romney, I think he's lived a a life of professional success, family, god. He's very... He's obviously a very spiritual Let
Kara Swisher · 55:10
me just say he's dropping the bombs. He said, why would anyone wanna have lunch with J. D. Vance? He, like, he's going after... He's like, I don't give a fuck. I'm gonna tell you all what I think, which I I kinda like. I like Mitt Romney, Unplugged.
Scott Galloway · 55:22
But it's not it's not mean spirited. It comes from... He's not trying to raise money.
Kara Swisher · 55:26
Did a mean... It's really mean Read the piece.
[Ad break]
Kara Swisher · 55:29
mean I think he believes them. I do. But let me say, it's... I'm I'm I'm I'm all there for it because I think he's a... He's dropping truth bombs.
Scott Galloway · 55:36
The nation would be in such a better place if it had more Republicans like senator Mitt Romney.
Kara Swisher · 55:41
That ish, but they are fewer and fewer.
Scott Galloway · 55:42
That's right. There's no place for them anymore.
Kara Swisher · 55:44
Fewer. The the good ones the good ones leave, the terrible ones stay.
Scott Galloway · 55:48
And, also, most importantly, can you think of any 76 year old as good looking as Mitt Romney? He's in great shape. He's got great hair. Anyways, I just think he's a great role model of masculinity and service. And think he's had an assumed credit. And not only that, and this goes to my fail, inherited this incredible skill that has incredible dearth amongst our elected leaders, and that is he knows when to leave. And that's my fail. I did the actuarial tables on our likely nominees on the Democratic and the Republican side. At this point, Joe Biden, every year, there's a six to seven percent chance he's gonna die that year. And there's a four and a half to five and a quarter percent chance mortality rate when you're at Trump's age. And Trump, you could probably dial up a little bit because he's obese. But again, he looks really... At the same time, he's very robust. What does that mean? That means in the next six years, there's a forty one percent chance that Biden's gonna die, and there's a thirty seven percent chance that Trump going to die, meaning that in the next six years before the next president would be elected on inauguration day and whatever it is, January '29, there is a two in three chance that one of them will die. And that's who we've decided we're going to bank the nation on. So my win is senator Mitt Romney, and my fail is that unlike this good senator, these individuals don't know when to leave even when it's probably the right thing to do for the country.
Kara Swisher · 57:16
Alright. Alright. There you have it. There you have it. My... You have a fail, actually. Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is flying to Silicon Valley this week to meet with Elon Musk in an effort... Let me read this. In an effort to help ease the escalating crisis over antisemitism, the meeting is the latest step in a campaign by Musk's Jewish friends and allies and executives at a social media company stave off mounting controversy. Netanyahu has has done this before when he repeated antisemitic tropes about Jewish financier George Soros. And this guy comes in and helps him get over it. It's kind of gross. I mean, I'm sorry. It just is. Just just Well,
Scott Galloway · 57:54
it's antisemitism meets fascism.
Kara Swisher · 57:56
It's really weird that he would do this.
Scott Galloway · 57:58
Isn't that, yeah, trying to unwind the Supreme Court?
Kara Swisher · 58:01
Yeah. They're trying to broker peace, and Lynn... Joe Lonsdale, who cofounded Palantir, a friend of his, Linda Yaccarino, has gone to damage control mode. Like, why are they keeping helping this? Let's let let's let it play out. These people just come in and try to assuage the situation and bring it... Netanyahu, what a
Scott Galloway · 58:21
This is this is... They are meeting. Their PR representatives are meeting. This is just such bullshit. You know what I've been thinking a lot about, Carrie?
Kara Swisher · 58:28
Speaking of stunts.
Scott Galloway · 58:29
Yeah. Talk about stunts. That last paragraph you read of of Isaacson's book, which said, look at his childhood and look how tough it is and kind of excusing his actions. And I was actually thinking about you. I was saying, okay. They talk about how his father traumatized him. Your father died when you were five, and yet you figured I out a
Kara Swisher · 58:48
had a really bad stepfather. I had a very unfortunate...
Scott Galloway · 58:51
But for some reason, it didn't end up in antisemitism.
Kara Swisher · 58:54
It didn't. It did not.
Scott Galloway · 58:56
It's just such... It's so ridiculous.
Kara Swisher · 58:58
This is one of my questions for Walter.
Scott Galloway · 59:01
The different standards we set for people because they're billionaires. I just find this... Couldn't help but I went and read that last paragraph, and it felt like a reheated version of that think different commercial from the nineties from Lee Clough and Shia Day, the crazy ones. And I'm like, that's what we're gonna start doing? Because here's the thing. All life, all heroes, all villains comes down to comic books, and that is every comic book is born of childhood trauma. But here's the decision you have. The superheroes are born of trauma. They're the they're the they're the son of orphans. Batman, Bruce Wayne was the son of orphans, but the villain is someone who experiences childhood trauma and turns it into hate. But childhood trauma is no no... I mean, it's a reason to give people empathy, but it doesn't justify antisemitism or misogyny.
Kara Swisher · 59:52
I agree. I don't get it. I don't get why everybody... I don't. It's... Let me read this quote. It's clear Twitter's drop off in ad revenue started months ago as a result of changes the platform made to ad formats, said Sarah Livingston, a marketing analyst consultant, has nothing to do with the ADL. Another advertising executive who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe industry conversations said there's been a 75% drop off in the number of people click on ads since last acquisition of the company. The person said the ADL has not been pressuring advertisers to stop spending on the platform lately. This is such... And for Netanyahu running in and these friends trying to, this is what they spend their fucking time doing is is is doing this. Rather than fixing the actual problem, it's making sure that that that he doesn't look that way. If he... Maybe they should make sure he doesn't talk like that. And so I'm sorry, Linda and Joe. Stop it. Please stop it. It's not it's not, it's it's so wrong on every aspect. But you fly in anyone you want, anyone to to whitewash what is a bad situation. And in general, this is not... It's not just an Elon thing. It's a lot of people in tech as I as I reflect on it. It's just they never deal with the actual problem. They deal with making them look better. I just... I don't... It's such bad parenting. I don't know what else to say.
Scott Galloway · 1:01:09
If my jokes become profane and inappropriate enough, will you bring in Trudeau? And who's the prime minister or the president of New Zealand?
Kara Swisher · 1:01:14
Yeah. I know. Exactly. And I'll give you this this one quote from one of his his helpers. He doesn't hate Jews, but he's a fighter. And when you punch him, he's gonna punch back someone
Scott Galloway · 1:01:23
Oh, fuck you.
Kara Swisher · 1:01:23
With the average. Part of who he
Scott Galloway · 1:01:25
is is
Kara Swisher · 1:01:25
an aggressive force of nature. He doesn't understand the second order effects.
Scott Galloway · 1:01:29
Mhmm.
Kara Swisher · 1:01:30
He's a 52 year old man. He should understand the second... Anyway, just fix the problem. Fix the problem and stop... You know, the... One of my favorite... I'll tell you my favorite person in Silicon Valley over the many years is a guy named Jim Barksdale. He ran Netscape, and he had a deal with giant toddler Marc Andreessen during those days. And one of the things he said, he had a bunch of aphorisms. He's from the South, and I actually had dinner with him and Walter Eisingson once. And he said, just remember, Kara, and he used to say this to people at Netscape, to keep the main thing the main thing. That was his big business brome. And I was like, exactly. Let's keep the main thing the main thing, which was we know what the main thing is. So, anyway, there you go. There you go. Jim Barksdale, legend.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:15
What is what is Jim Barksdale up to?
Kara Swisher · 1:02:17
Oh, you know, he's retired. He lives down in Mississippi, I think. He's, you know, older. He's a wonderful man. He was my favorite, and what a good man. Anyway, that's it. That's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Scott, please read us out.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:32
Today's show is produced by Lara Nayman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Brandon McFarlane engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miel Silverio, and Gatti McBain. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Happy sixteenth birthday, Alec. Your birth was the the best thing that ever happened to me.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:56
Oh, happy birthday, Ally.
[Ad break]
