Pivot · Feb 12, 2021

Is there a Trump without Twitter? A mini class on "dispersion", and a prediction about CNN

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 45:47. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Kara Swisher · 45:47 And some of them work, and most of them don't. And that's really where you are. And and so I think it it will degenerate into what it always degenerated, which is... Let me read. I'm gonna read my stream on this on on... About Clubhouse that I put up with... Because Charlie Wartsoul said he wasn't on it, and he doesn't understand it. Right? And I said, he doesn't know why he should do it. And I said, maybe Charlie Wartsoul, you don't wanna paint a rich VC's fence by giving up your attention and analysis gratis. Reminds me of when Facebook was bugging everyone to do Facebook Live. All I could I... All I could reply was, what's the actual benefit to anybody but Facebook? It's certainly good for those who need or wanna make a splash or as a place for new voices to emerge. The real benefit of the services to users, in my humble opinion, is that the non famous for Silicon Valley groups that are creative and additive to life and work in some way. But the planoply of achingly dull interviews with famed dudes is fine. Being in the same room, even virtual, is exciting, like being near a celeb at a cocktail party, and you don't care a lot that it is a retread of remarks or just PR. But it'll get tired like those endless Silicon Valley parties. This sounds a lot... Sounds like a column except it feels small compared to important issues like climate change, pandemic recovery, and seismic shifts in our politics. But I get that people wanna talk in a safe space and that works for them. If they keep focusing on their Silicon Valley ness, who the fuck cares? I think if they get more creative... And the most interesting stuff, just as on Twitter, is going in in the in the areas with people of color talking. That's what that's what's building this thing, a lot of these discussions. And I think they'll ignore it for Elon's on here, you know, Mark Zuckerberg's on here. And that's not where it's going to be powerful. Scott Galloway · 47:24 Well, this is, and it's also a little bit dangerous, or not dangerous, but so for example, they had the CEO of Robin Hood on. And there was a conspiracy theory that the CEO of Robin Hood was coordinating with Citadel to like screw over a younger generation. That's not true. They just got killed in a, they just had a liquidity crisis. Anyways, I think, and as I've said before, I think Robinhood is a menace, but they had the CEO on interviewed by Elon Musk. And I listened to bits of it that were circulated on the web. And the reality is you got a lot more from the interview of the CEO of Robinhood when Andrew Ross Sorkin did it. Because Andrew Ross Sorkin, it's like Andrew Ross Sorkin, as far as I know, does not do a great job of landing two projectiles concurrently on two barges, nor does Elon Musk do a great job of interviewing the CEO of Robinhood. And it's all about, let's just find this kind of Silicon Valley celebrity thing, but the interview was lousy. Mean, there's a reason that, there's a reason we have journalists and people who interview other people. So, but I got, you know, let me be clear. I can't get over how much I'm hearing about Clubhouse. If I were Andreessen Horowitz, I'd figure out a way to monetize that buzz and sell it now. Because I agree with you. Think that's going Kara Swisher · 48:39 be Peach. Remember Peach and Oi? They were all like, I got a million of those. So the question is, can they make it substantive in a way? And can they make it safe, by the way? Like lots of crazies are going to flood onto this platform and they're going to have like, let's have the, you know, the white supremacy hour. How do you keep that out? How do you, and that's difficult. Scott Galloway · 48:56 And all the bullshit with like the ugliness between New York Times journalists and some Silicon Valley types, it's just like, do we need another platform with that shit? Do we need another platform digital exhaust in the form of rage and toxicity? And I'm sure that's not what it's all about. I hope they implement safety standards. That's kind of the stuff that makes the news. Is that's there a or anything? Kara Swisher · 49:25 The power is elsewhere. Its power is elsewhere. If they do it right, it could be great. They should sell it because everyone's going to get into it. But if they don't, it's going to be one of those, oh, remember Clubhouse, you know? So I think that's [Ad break] Scott Galloway · 49:40 But they're... I will get missed. They're smart. They're talking about moving to subscription. I think that's really smart. Kara Swisher · 49:44 Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. We'll see how it goes. They have certainly created buzz. By the way, are we going on... We're not going on Clubhouse. I don't see a plus yet. If they could show me a plus, I'm happy to. Otherwise, no thank you. I don't feel like arguing with Silicon Valley dudes about anything. Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. [Ad break] — Predictions segment begins — Kara Swisher · 51:31 Okay, Scott. Prediction time. Let's go. Scott Galloway · 51:35 Okay. So the best way to make the future or predict the future is to make it happen. A shareholder in Twitter and I've been advocating for this. And people say it's a ridiculous idea, but I think it's so obvious. I think Twitter should and will acquire CNN. I think Twitter I like Kara Swisher · 51:51 this, you keep saying this. This is, go ahead. Scott Galloway · 51:53 Well, first off, the moons have all lined up here. AT and T took on too much debt acquiring Time Warner and DirecTV. They need to shed assets, they need to raise cash. The best valuation in the M and A world is always one situation and that is a corporate parent looking to orphan a failed acquisition. So the price that CNN will get will be great for the bidder. CNN does about 1,000,000,000 in EBITDA supposedly. Supposedly they're going to get somewhere between 6 and 9,000,000,000. It is very difficult to shop a brand or a company like CNN without word getting out. Word has gotten out. CNN is on the block. CNN can Can be purchased right Kara Swisher · 52:30 I ask you a pushback question? Scott Galloway · 52:31 Sure. Do Kara Swisher · 52:31 you think Jason has talked about doing a subscription news service using CNN as the main brand? He seemed rather excited about the idea. Do you think they want to give it up for that and if they could do something interesting with it? This is Jason Kailar, who's now running Scott Galloway · 52:46 the I division think Jason the has made some bold moves. I think AT and T's move around the Warner films going dispersing straight to your TV with HBO Max. Kara Swisher · 52:57 Yeah, that's settled down, hasn't it? Scott Galloway · 52:59 Gangster smart move. I don't think Jay to be blunt, I don't think Jason's in charge. I think John Stankey is going to get together with the CFO, run a quiet process, and if they can get $7,000,000,000 or more for CNN, it's gone. Kara Swisher · 53:11 Okay. Interesting. I don't know. Scott Galloway · 53:13 Well, I don't know where Kara Swisher · 53:14 you I thought the idea of leaning into CNN could be really, really truly with Jeff leaving in December. Like what is it then? It's a subscription news service that's valuable? Is it interesting to ask you? Scott Galloway · 53:28 Problem is AT Okay, and what do you have here? CNN is worth $7.08, maybe $10,000,000,000 to AT and T. It's worth 20,000,000,000 to Twitter because Twitter right now is a $60,000,000,000 market cap. Say they pick it up for 7. We're talking about, we're talking about a 12 or 13% dilution. And then all of a sudden Twitter has the heft and the IP to become the dominant circulatory system for real time news globally. They start putting that amazing content of Michael Smirkanisch, Christiana Aminpur, and, and of course, the most trusted journalist in the world right now. The most trusted journalist in the world right now. Who is it, Kara? Anderson You're two. You're number two. It's Anderson Cooper. You figure out product innovation. You use that as the anchor to start charging subscription. You go you go vertical. By the way, when did Spotify and Netflix stock absolutely begin their tear up when they went vertical around Joe Rogan and House of Kara Swisher · 54:21 here. I just want to know who, what the reaction is from the media people. Like what, like Twitter running, who runs it? They've got to get someone really fantastic. Scott Galloway · 54:29 Well, think CNN, my sense of CNN has a lot of outstanding management. I think Zucker's been a decent steward. You know, I know who I would want running it, but no I'm one's not even going say it because I'll just get mauled on Twitter. If Twitter think about this. Kara Swisher · 54:45 You're so scared of Twitter. Scott Galloway · 54:46 Think about it. I'm like a dog that's been hit by a car and then it backed Yes, up and ran over get up, Kara Swisher · 54:51 sister. Get in there. Get in the fight. Scott Galloway · 54:53 I need stick in a skirt. Kara Swisher · 54:54 This is like a Scott Galloway · 54:54 rocky need a stick in a skirt. Kara Swisher · 54:55 I throw water in your face, I cut your eye and I toss you right back in. That's what I need do. Get back in there, Rodney. Scott Galloway · 55:01 Need a stick in a skirt. Kara Swisher · 55:04 Okay, whatever. Scott Galloway · 55:04 You can reach me in Albuquerque. Anyways, but think about this. If they, what an incredible risk. They give up, they take a 12% dilution and they own CNN and they have vertical content. They absolutely cement their position as the world's news leader. They can use that to create all sorts of subscription services around verticals and news, politics, finance. They get amazing talent. Their stock, they pay for this acquisition within 60 days of the acquisition. This is like Amazon announcing they're buying Whole Foods. And within forty eight hours, it's already paid for. This makes so much sense. Have Kara Swisher · 55:46 a Is corporate parent there any other buyer? Because we got to get going, but was there any other buyer? Scott Galloway · 55:50 Of CNN? Kara Swisher · 55:51 Yeah. Scott Galloway · 55:51 Oh gosh. I think there's a bunch of them including Comcast. You could see Kara Swisher · 55:58 They're not, that's, that'd run into trouble. Scott Galloway · 55:59 I don't know. I mean, this sounds crazy and I don't know because of antitrust, but I actually think Apple would be an interesting buyer, CNN. They have the money and to just say, no, we're putting it on Apple TV plus you're our news group and it's going behind a paywall. Yeah. I think there's actually quite a few potential. CNN is a great bargain. It's an incredible Kara Swisher · 56:18 Investment value right banker, Scott Galloway is offering up CNN to the people. Why don't we buy it, Scott? Scott Galloway · 56:24 You know, there's crazier things that have happening. I've been contacted by some SPAC I'm not joking. I've been contacted by some SPACs in the media space. Getting calls from SPACs. AT and The problem is it's a pretty big Kara Swisher · 56:34 fight Call that for Bill Ackman. Bill Ackman. Let's, Karen Scott want to run CNN. Give it to us. Scott Galloway · 56:40 Think our guy's Dan Lowe. I like him. He's salty. Let's do Dan Kara Swisher · 56:43 Lowe. What a disaster that would be in a kind of a great way. We'd just be like New York Post barter for years. It would be like. Scott Galloway · 56:51 Yeah, I don't know. Kara Swisher · 56:52 Don't I like it. I like it. I like it. I volunteered to be head of the internet for the Biden administration. You know, Scott Galloway · 56:58 nobody's gonna buy CNN and it would be great? Bloomberg. Kara Swisher · 57:01 Oh yeah. That's another issue. Scott Galloway · 57:02 Put it on the terminal. Kara Swisher · 57:03 Sure. Scott Galloway · 57:03 I mean, unfortunately the bad thing here that we're taking all of what I call, I mean, is got its own partisanship and has its own bubble and has its own anger factor. But they do things like fact checking. They have responsible journalists. The problem is almost all of that stuff, fact checking responsible journalism is moving behind a wall. And all the stuff that is gonna be consumed by people who don't have the money to pay for these things is going to be the crazy town shit. Kara Swisher · 57:32 Very Scott Galloway · 57:32 bad. Know, going be Jeanette Puro Well, or whatever name Kara Swisher · 57:35 know what? They're getting sued. That's not they're acting like it's not a big deal. Those lawsuits are a big deal for Fox. Scott Galloway · 57:40 Supposedly, if you listen to legal scholars, those lawsuits have real teeth. Kara Swisher · 57:45 They do. And that had even gotten to their COVID shit that they pulled. [Ad break] Kara Swisher · 57:54 I know he's gotten out of a lot of scraps, but this one's a scrap. They really allowed that. I want anything. Scott Galloway · 57:59 Think he's going to start worrying right now. I think that guy has had such bigger reasons to worry and he, it's just amazing. I think Rupert Murdoch, I think the most amazing thing about Rupert Murdoch and Mark Zuckerberg is not what they've accomplished, is not their incredible blue flame genius. I think those guys sleep really well every night. I think they sleep really well every night. I think they're like, oh, know, people being pulled out of cars and hanged in India, misinformation that threatens the democracy of the greatest experiment ever, you know? I think they just go I straight into don't, I don't think, I'm a fucking wreck when people insult me on Twitter. Kara Swisher · 58:35 I know, you are. Guys. Get back in there, Scott. I'm a little bit more like that. I'm like, yeah, whatever. Come at me. Anyway. Scott Galloway · 58:42 You mean a sociopath? Kara Swisher · 58:43 Yes, exactly. All right, Scott. Thank you. That was a really I'm good fascinated by this prediction. Thank you so much for it. And thank you for your teaching. It's really, you're a very good teacher. We forget that. I appreciate saying that. I appreciate appreciate saying that. Nonetheless, get back onto Twitter and start screaming at people. Alright. Read us out. — Predictions segment ends — Scott Galloway · 58:59 Today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Our sound engineer who doesn't get the credit he deserves is Ernie Indratot. Thanks also to Hana Rosen and Drew Bros. Make sure you've subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts. If you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like the show, please recommend it to a friend. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for a breakdown of all things tech and business. CNN and Twitter. Twitter and CNN. The future isn't what happens to us. The future is what we make of it. Kara Swisher · 59:32 Oh my god. Scott Galloway · 59:35 Yoga. Thank you. Great job, master. Kara Swisher · 59:38 Thank you, captain Kirk. And with that, we're out. [Ad break] Scott Galloway · 1:00:46 online [Ad break]