Scott Galloway · 59:17
Have you have you taken anything away personally around, you know, learnings and how you might change or or or what you would instruct your kids or how you would treat your parents when they become unable. It's just such... It it... It's dramatic here because he's so famous, but this happens everywhere. This dysfunction when people get old and can't take care of themselves and people see opportunity to prey on them or help them. But how has it impacted your own thoughts on the relationship and dynamics in families when people get older?
Guest · 59:53
One of the big takeaways from this is, as Jim said, at least legally, there's this huge... It's either Black or it's white. It's either Black or white that somebody's either competent or they're not competent. And, you know, I do have family members that are starting to or no longer able to fully take care of themselves. And I think there's really a balance between wanting someone that you love to have autonomy and also making sure that they don't get behind the wheel and kill themselves or somebody else. Right? And I think anyone, there are so many people that can relate to that. And I think I can't... I I would imagine that most people that have to deal with that feel that they did it quite imperfectly. And seeing it happen on such a grand scale with stakes that are so high, with people that should have all the means and the resources and the guardrails to do this right, I guess something about it made me feel like maybe when the time comes, like, I would be a little bit more forgiving. Because if those people can't get it right perfectly, and obviously, he was a target in part because of his wealth. But nevertheless, this is something that everybody will deal with. And you do... My mother always says to me, like, you know, if you ever have kids, you're gonna do the best job you can, and then you're gonna hope that they forgive you. And I kind of feel the same way when you... When the positions get reversed.
Guest · 1:01:21
Yeah. And I I... We've we've said to ourselves that if you want proof that, you know, money and vast money does not bring happiness or peace of mind, this is exhibit a. And I think for me personally, I mean, I don't have to worry about that problem exactly. And yet, you know, I think so many times, even I've seen it in families with relatively modest fortunes, as soon as there's money involved, the vultures are circling. And I think there is something there that friendship, real relationships, family relationships, you know, we've got to cherish them and nurture them. The judge in the case at one point said something about he just, you know, out of the blue said, you know, family ties are stronger than anything else. And I kind of thought, well, there wasn't any evidence in the trial about that. But I think he... There was some truth to that, and that that's what's important in life. And this story to me is just a huge reminder of that.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:19
So so right now, Paramount Global is worth $15,000,000,000, I guess, something like that, which is quite a bit lower than it was at one point. Where is it as a company?
Guest · 1:02:32
Well, it's... First of all, it's in an industry that is experiencing so much consolidation, and people are not going to the movies anymore. People are not buying, people are not watching television the way that it used to. There is so much consolidation happening, and obviously, a lot of speculation that, that Paramount is gonna need
Kara Swisher · 1:02:53
to merge with another company. So... Yeah. What what... So what is Sherry gonna do? Because the stock's at a low. It's not worth very much. And, you know, what's she gonna do? Because she's got... Even though she has hits like Yellowstone and others, that's not gonna carry them through where they are. They've got a lot of deficits everywhere.
Guest · 1:03:14
That's a really good question. It's something that Jim and I have certainly been asked a lot and are wondering. I mean, I I don't have any special insight into this, but I would... Just looking at the landscape, I would think that she will have to merge this company or be open to selling it. I mean, that would... If I just had to guess, obviously, nobody has a crystal ball, but it's just so hard to look around and say, oh, no. You know, there's, you know, there's a viable path forward.
Kara Swisher · 1:03:39
What is her motivation now from what you from what you can tell? Why did she do this, and why is she continuing to do it?
Guest · 1:03:50
Well, you know, she has said over and over again that she was reluctant to be a part of this family empire, basically. But now that she has stepped into this role, it seems like she is enjoying it and do... And and really is enjoying, first of all, doing her victory. Right? Like, finally getting the women kicked out, winning against Les Moonves. And while she might have been reluctant at one point to sort of step into these to step into these shoes, she she seems to be having a good time.
Guest · 1:04:22
Her ultimate goal in life is not to be a media mogul, certainly not in the the mold of her father. But as Rachel points out, I think she has gained confidence. You know, she was kind of shy and overwhelmed at those early Sun Valley conferences with these, you know, other titans of industry, all of them men, of course, roaming around. And she's gained a lot of confidence now, and I think is doing better. And look, they've done some, they did Maverick, they've done Yellowstone, they have some pretty interesting stuff coming out of there. But I believe, certainly the Wall Street consensus is they don't have the scale, they can't compete with Amazon, Netflix, Disney. They're going to have to merge with somebody bigger. There's a lot of talk that Netflix would be the ideal acquirer because Netflix doesn't have a big studio. Whether that would ever get past the Justice Department right now, I don't know. But the other issue is the stock price. You know, as Scott pointed out, it got so low, she wasn't gonna sell there. But it's been recovering lately, you know, at the right price, I think there's no question she would sell, and that it still lacks the scale that it needs.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:29
It still lacks the scale that it needs. You know, she... There's a little echoes of Katharine Graham in some of this in a weird way with the difficult father and the... Someone who was shy and not comfortable with the power that she had. It'll be interesting to see what she does with it, but I think most people feel like there's no choice but to merge. These are these are two small companies from a media landscape. And I guess that's my last question is, look. If this guy was a colossus over content... Over media, there's so many like it, and Moonvesque was a lesser colossus, part of the empire that Sumner Redstone built. Is that over, that idea of the great media mogul? I know we all love Succession, and we love the idea of the Rupert Murdochs, or not me necessarily, but how do you how do you look at that going forward, each of you? I'd love to get a sense of, like, this is... There's not any more Sumner Redstones coming from what I can under... They're mostly tech moguls at this point.
Guest · 1:06:23
Personality wise, I think that the era of the media mogul who can treat anybody any way that he, usually he, wants, I think that's over. I think the combination of the Me Too movement, everybody having a cell phone to capture your bad behavior, Internet gossip blocks. People cannot get away with what Harvey Weinstein once did. And I'm not even talking about the sexual misconduct. I'm talking about going outside of a party and punching a reporter. There is just... I I... There's just so many... There are so many... There's so much more, accountability now. And so I'm not saying that bad behavior is going to stop, but the the idea that you could have this sort of, like, this bully running your company given the way that our culture is, At least Changed dramatically. It's changed dramatically, and I just... I I think that that hopefully is over.
Guest · 1:07:14
Yeah. I think the owner mogul is is over, but there is something about media and entertainment that these CEOs do command a certain level of scrutiny, of interest, of admiration that is not the same in almost any other business. And we're certainly seeing that right now at Disney, where, you know, they had just replaced the CEO who didn't have the charm and the charisma of Bob Iger. Now he's back. I mean, he doesn't seem to be able to give up the reins. People get into these jobs and they don't want to give it up. They love, I guess, the attention, the glamour, the red carpets, the influence over our culture. So there is something kind of unique about it. But the problems of succession at publicly traded companies, the issue of sexism, I mean, it's not unique. I mean, we obviously delved into it in this particular company, but you know, even places like McDonald's have been having serious issues with this, boardroom and, you know, C suite misconduct. But I think it's mostly the Sumners of the world, the owner head with, you know, unfettered voting control over the companies. We still see some of that in the giant tech companies, but when it comes to Hollywood, think that is fading away.
Kara Swisher · 1:08:26
All right. This is a fascinating book. James and Rachel, thank you so much. It's called The Epic Battle for a Media Empire and the Redstone Family Legacy. It's out now. It's... It is a real life Succession in a lot of ways and even better in... Because it's real. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for having us.
Scott Galloway · 1:08:44
Thanks, Rachel. Thanks, James.
Guest · 1:08:46
Thanks, Scott. Nice to meet you both.
Scott Galloway · 1:08:48
I... It's funny. I think this calls on so many things. I... He's a fascinating character. And there's also... I think I think there's some really key lessons to be taken from his life. And the first is a real assessment of the quality of your life and the relationships is, you know, who's around you toward the end, and are they trying to take advantage of you or protect
Kara Swisher · 1:09:09
you?
Scott Galloway · 1:09:09
You know, if you die if you die under lights surrounded by strangers or people vying for your fortune, it's an indication that
Kara Swisher · 1:09:16
you why I will be there when you die.
Scott Galloway · 1:09:17
I appreciate that. I think you're very confident.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:19
Anyway, when we get back, we're gonna have predictions.
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— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 1:10:29
Okay. Scott, let's hear a prediction besides the fact that I'm gonna have to save you at the end of your life. Go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 1:10:35
I think that... So my prediction is in q three, probably q four, the IPO market's gonna come back. There's been a a real absence of IPOs that began. I don't know what will be the biggest IPOs. I actually think it's gonna be some unusual ones. I was talking to the CEO of Panera yesterday, and I used be on the board there. I'm no longer on the board. I no longer have a financial interest in Panera, so I'm not I'm not conflicted here. But there is so much money still on the on the sidelines. There are entire hedge funds and funds that do nothing but buy shares in IPOs. And there has been such a dearth of IPOs. The market has been so nonreceptive that I think we're building up demand for them. And also, you don't like to call the bottom, but I've seen across the companies I'm involved in that the economy over the last twelve months, they did what they were supposed to do. They paired some costs. They got more focus. They got in better shape. They got in fighting shape. And the recession that everyone's been talking about, if the media hadn't been talking about it for eighteen months and you were just looking at the data, you would see absolutely no signals of an impending recession.
Kara Swisher · 1:11:42
Well, Panera's among the ones that may be testing the IPO. They had... They were gonna go IPO, and then they did a SPAC deal with Danny Meyer that didn't work out, and now they're trying to do this IPO.
Scott Galloway · 1:11:53
Yeah, they're they're talking about it. So anyways, but I think I think the first kind of name brand IPOs that come out in maybe Q2 or Q3 are going get a much more positive reception than anticipated. Because I think we're building up pressure here. I think the spring is being wound, and I think by Q3, Q4, we're going to see the IPO
Kara Swisher · 1:12:12
market
Scott Galloway · 1:12:12
return.
Kara Swisher · 1:12:13
Alright. Well, that's a good that's a good one. We'll see what happens. That would be a good news for a lot of people, especially investment bankers who need the money. Interesting prediction. Anyway, we wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show, or call 85551 Scott, that's the show. We'll have a feed drop of the professor g show for you on Tuesday, and we'll be back with a fresh pivot in a week. Scott, read us out.
— Predictions segment ends —
Scott Galloway · 1:12:41
Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Inderthot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mia Silberio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcast. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, have a great holiday.
Kara Swisher · 1:12:58
You too.
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Scott Galloway · 1:13:47
just moved into our new house, and I didn't realize just how close we were to the neighbors. That's when my friend told me about blinds.com.
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