Kara Swisher · 18:47
One of the things is they moved a lot of extremist stuff off the platform, which you think is in response to this federal investigations and stuff like that, because YouTube is really the... One of the bigger problems for Google. And then they had a back and forth with a Vox employee, Carlos Mazza. He has been badly treated by this channel by Steven Crowder Yeah. Where he he he was just harassing. He was harassing him personally. Carlos is gay and just was making all kinds of horrible remarks. I I showed them to you. He also wears a t shirt that says socialism is for fags t shirt in many of his videos, and his followers have doxxed Maza in the past. And so Maza complained, it rose to the level of Susan, I think. And so first, they decided to back Crowder and say what he was doing was offensive but not, against their rules, and then they decided to demonetize him. And then they weren't clear about it because he was making a lot of his monies for these t shirts that he was selling, all the all the merch, essentially. And so they then pulled that until he changes his ways, essentially. And I'm not... They weren't very clear on that. So it was a really... It was a win and a fail because it shows how hard it is to deal with these things. And at the same time, they have real repercussions because a lot of Crowder's followers jumped to Twitter to to give him death threats and things like that. So now Susan Wojciecht is not in charge of Twitter. That's Jack Dorsey. But these things bleed all over the place. And so, you know, these... This is gonna happen again and again with these Yeah. Companies. So we talked about that. It was really really problematic on lots of levels, especially for Carlos.
Scott Galloway · 20:25
Yeah. And there's there's, what's interesting is that, the timing here Mhmm. In terms of YouTube's all of a sudden newfound concern around this, and that is as opposed to throwing up their arms and saying it's a platform, and people have a right to be offensive, etcetera, and we're not a media company. And that is Gary Reback, the lawyer who led the antitrust action against Microsoft in the nineties, said that it's not the actual antitrust action, but the public scrutiny of the company once antitrust is set in motion. And that's largely an excuse because I don't think he got it across the goal line, and Microsoft was never actually broken up.
Kara Swisher · 20:58
Mhmm.
Scott Galloway · 20:59
But there is some value there, and I don't think it's any accident that forty eight hours after
Kara Swisher · 21:03
Well, were working on This is a very complex change in their policies. But go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 21:08
I don't think it's I don't think it's a change. I'm not sure it's that complex. I think we've been co opted into believing this is much more difficult than it is. And I think there's some basic rules that if someone is being mocked, that could potentially result in violence. And this kind of this kind of mockery can spin up violence in my view, and it's based on something that they can't control, their ethnicity, their sexuality.
Kara Swisher · 21:28
Mhmm.
Scott Galloway · 21:29
You just don't engage in that. And and you overcorrect or I don't know what the term is. You air on the side of caution and this notion that we need free speech. I'm not sure that's really adding to the dialogue. That's not discourse around provoking interesting thought or moving us forward. This isn't... I don't see what's so complex about this call.
Kara Swisher · 21:46
Well, you know, it goes into the free speech. Like, they they they have to be able to say anything, and it's... He was kidding. He's very interesting. I was watching a lot of them, and they're totally offensive. But he cues to, like, that he's a comic. I think he is a comic, but it's a really interesting... He's very clever. You know? He's not... Like, Alex Jones was so bad at it. You could see him violating the rules, but this guy is really clever. He's just totally offensive and harassing, but he doesn't... It just is... He's... He makes... He's a... People like him are a problem for YouTube to figure out even though they have real life repercussions on someone like Carlos. And so, it's so... What they're doing is these people are gaming the system as it's built. And so it's very hard for anybody to get relief when this is happening. And it happened with Milo, whatever his name is, with Leslie Jones. And what they have to do is they make these one off decisions, like, that may be high profile, but how do you have a rule? Because, you know, I've heard dozens of different things. Each of one, you could have an whole ethics seminar on 100%. What to do. So
Scott Galloway · 22:55
But the... Here's the thing. The the best process or decision framework for this is something very expensive, and it's called human nuance. And these companies don't wanna invest in that. Right. And the New York Times makes these calls all the time. Fox makes these calls all the time, and they get them wrong all the time. But they mostly get them right, and they don't throw up their arms and say, oh, we're a platform.
Kara Swisher · 23:14
Right.
Scott Galloway · 23:14
Right.
Kara Swisher · 23:14
And it's You made the point about them being smaller too because everyone... Someone wrote a piece about something I said, which was take down the Pelosi. Like, you... I said essentially that in a column two weeks ago, I guess, in the Times. And someone wrote a piece saying, you know, Fox News got away with a Pelosi video and and was saying, so I made the point that most media companies wouldn't do this. And they said Fox got away. There would be repercussions. But you made an excellent point. I wish I was as smart as you that they're so much smaller. You know, these these TV networks, big as they seem, are so much smaller than the big social networks like Facebook, and it doesn't really matter what they do compared to a Facebook.
Scott Galloway · 23:53
Well, if you... Even if you look at the election, basically, if you look at the people on Twitter and you look at MSNBC and Fox, that's about 11 or 12,000,000 people are sort of controlling the debate around politics
Kara Swisher · 24:03
right now.
Scott Galloway · 24:03
We have 350,000,000 people in this country. If you look at what... It was a fair point logically, logically or the tautology around the argument makes sense, and that is, well, Fox mocks Pelosi runs the same video.
Kara Swisher · 24:13
Or similar.
Scott Galloway · 24:14
Aren't they held to the same standards? And so that is a fair point. But when Fox puts it out, it's immediately in public view. And, usually, there's some sort of pushback that affects them from advertisers, and it's sort of screened and starched or not starched fairly quickly. And Fox, the most viewed network in America, reaches 2,400,000 people. Average age, 67. A 30 year old accidentally turns on Fox. That means someone 104 is watching. But, anyways, let's let's look at the damage there. 2,400,000 people. Go ahead. When Facebook runs a doctored video of Pelosi showing that she is potentially impaired, it goes to 1,400,000,000 monthly active users or daily. I think 1,400,000,000 people across our networks now log on daily. So you literally have 50 times the potential harm, but we couple that with less regulation and scrutiny than is applied to our traditional media companies. So what do we have here, Kara? We have exponentially more damage, much less the fact that it goes to people individually and they can spread it faster and farther. Yeah. So you have 50 x the damage with what? 10% of the scrutiny? The algorithms here or the ratio of discretion and justice are totally out of proportion.
Kara Swisher · 25:28
And then Carlos, someone like Carlos has no... Like, these dot... This doxing, these death threats, this... It's just, you know... And the problem is that they can do that. They move like a... Like... And I I don't go... Buy into the total mob mentality of it, but in this case, there's no way to adjudicate between them. So it's it's an interesting problem. We'll talk about it with Susan. What is your wins and fails?
Scott Galloway · 25:51
So just to just to finish up on this, I think this stuff is hard, but something I tell my kids... And when I say my kids, I mean my students. I think every organization and every person has to have a code around this stuff. And I I Hammer. I go after I go after people professionally, but it begins to leak into personal because I'm angry and inappropriate. Right? So I'm guilty of this. I attack people personally. And what I've decided is I need a code around this, and my code is the following. And you know what? My code is around personal attacks because some of these attacks do feel personal. Let's be honest. Mhmm. Is they have to be more powerful than me. And when when those guys start going after this individual and they go after him in unison and they're using their network and they're they're jumping platforms, they are going after someone who is less powerful than them. And that means, in my opinion, that they lack code. I I don't think personal attacks should be off limits. For individuals, I think people should be shamed, but everyone has to have a code around this stuff. And a decent place to start is you don't attack people less powerful than you.
Kara Swisher · 26:48
Yep. That's true. I think you're right. Alright. Win and fail for you. Any?
Scott Galloway · 26:53
Okay. So my win?
Kara Swisher · 26:54
Yeah.
Scott Galloway · 26:54
FTC and DOJ. I know I've harped on this, but there used to be on average 20 to 30 antitrust actions in the eighties. Now there's two or three a year. Mhmm. I think that the... It's very easy to be cynical about government employees. Some of the finest legal minds in the world go to work at the DOJ and the FTC. And I think there are so many of them, and I think they have so much character and expertise that they will outlast any administration. Okay. A lot
Kara Swisher · 27:19
of them
Scott Galloway · 27:19
are left.
Kara Swisher · 27:19
There's... You see those
Scott Galloway · 27:20
A lot of them left, you know, welcome back. And I really... And, again, don't break my heart. I hope this really amounts to something. It's already having a positive impact, so that's that's my win.
Kara Swisher · 27:30
Alright. What... You have a fail?
Scott Galloway · 27:32
Yeah. My fail was... I thought Bernie Sanders grandstanding at the Walmart meeting was a bit of a fail, and that is if Bernie and the rest of the senate wanna do something that would have a more effective change, and that is to... Is federal regulation and a law around substantially increasing minimum wage.
Kara Swisher · 27:48
Right. Bernie Sanders, grandstanding. That that just goes together.
Scott Galloway · 27:52
What a shocker. Right? That's red... It's redundant. Redundant. That's redundant.
Kara Swisher · 27:56
Maniac, that guy is. I'm sorry.
Scott Galloway · 27:58
Dude, you have a great impression of Bernie Sanders.
Kara Swisher · 28:01
How are doing? Yeah. I can't do it right now, but I'll That
Scott Galloway · 28:03
sounds like Barney Frank.
Kara Swisher · 28:05
Walmart. Like, I have to I have to I have to, like, practice. Yeah. He's just... I'm sorry.
Scott Galloway · 28:11
You're you're not a big burden.
Kara Swisher · 28:13
Elizabeth Warren has taken his area. She's moving in fast. She's so smart.
Scott Galloway · 28:19
No. She's the... Who's the the
Kara Swisher · 28:21
Lady geek is what she is.
Scott Galloway · 28:22
No. No. That... She's the Lady Gaga. Like, literally, Madonna sits around, and whenever she sees Lady Gaga, she's like, that bitch. Lady Gaga literally came in and said, I'm gonna be Madonna times three.
Kara Swisher · 28:32
I'm gonna be more outrageous.
Scott Galloway · 28:33
I'm gonna say for hotter people.
Kara Swisher · 28:35
Back to... Not Madonna now, but that's like Elvis
Scott Galloway · 28:38
Oh my god.
Kara Swisher · 28:39
Older and Elvis younger. Madonna broke so many amazing barriers for people and did so much astonish. I'm not gonna insult the Madonna.
Scott Galloway · 28:48
She was great. Oh my god. I just... Literally, I go home. I listen to Madonna. I put on those bad dance moves, and I am happy.
Kara Swisher · 28:54
No. I'm just telling you, Madonna does not deserve your insults. I'm sorry.
Scott Galloway · 28:58
No. Lady Gaga just basically came in and and Elizabeth warned her.
Kara Swisher · 29:02
She's she's on the shoulders, you know, the large shoulders because she was wearing shoulder pads, but... Or those those those military outfits that she liked.
Scott Galloway · 29:11
A metaphor.
Kara Swisher · 29:12
I'm just saying.
Scott Galloway · 29:13
But, anyways, Walmart... Back to Walmart. Walmart's in a bit of a tough spot. Most labor is largely driven on supply and demand dynamics. But, unfortunately, in our economy, when you let... You outsource the decisions around your labor wages to supply and demand, you end up with 33% of American children live in a household that's on food stamps. Yep. And, you know, so there's something wrong here. And Henry Ford decided even though I have a line around the block for people who will work for $2 an hour, I'm gonna pay them 5 because I have to support the middle class, but Walmart has such an enormous company and, you know, they are the largest private employer in the world. Then any 10¢ increase in their wage substantially hits earnings, and they worry about going into a death spiral in terms of their stock and not having the capital to compete with Amazon. So Doug McMillan, I think is is an incredibly talented and empathetic Yes. Executive, has said, look. Raise the minimum wage. That way our customers have more money, and we can afford to pay our people more, and we can't disarm unilaterally. We just can't.
Kara Swisher · 30:08
Right.
Scott Galloway · 30:09
Bernie, you're coming down here, but are you gonna show up at every shareholder meeting and try and shame them? Because these guys, again, don't wanna disarm unilaterally and raise their costs faster than other discount retailers. So I I thought senator Sanders is my my lose. Raise the minimum wage, boss. You're in the senate. Yeah. Do what all the states have done.
Kara Swisher · 30:26
He doesn't ever do anything. He never... He doesn't have, like, any legislation to his
Scott Galloway · 30:30
Is that right? He's not considered legislatively effective?
Kara Swisher · 30:33
Honestly, he just talks a lot. You know what? Who's who's... His lady Gaga is AOC. She's an excellent grandstander. She does it beautifully.
Scott Galloway · 30:39
She's come in.
Kara Swisher · 30:40
She did several times this week on a number of things with an FDA agent. She took him apart, and she did it on something else. She's excellent at it. She asks just the right questions. So
Scott Galloway · 30:50
Yeah. She's very good. She's she...
Kara Swisher · 30:51
Oh, no. Gaga to
Scott Galloway · 30:52
By the way, I have my... I have a story about AOC and Anand. Okay. So I was at that fancy Vox dinner that you guys threw at South by Southwest.
Kara Swisher · 31:01
Wasn't that fancy.
Scott Galloway · 31:02
Oh my gosh. I saw her and him sitting next to each other. I'm like, I've gotta go meet them.
Kara Swisher · 31:06
Mhmm.
Scott Galloway · 31:06
And I started walking towards them, and they're both so hot. It was like shark repellent, and I couldn't get near them. I'm like, I can't infect them with my ugly. I literally got so intimidated by his hair and her perfect skin, I couldn't get near them.
Kara Swisher · 31:21
I'll somehow make the introduction. Okay?
Scott Galloway · 31:23
Oh my god. They're beautiful.
Kara Swisher · 31:24
I'm gonna make the... I have things up my
Scott Galloway · 31:26
sleeve, so
Kara Swisher · 31:27
I'll make the introduction.
Scott Galloway · 31:28
That is crazy. Okay.
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 31:30
Let's let's... We'll talk about it later. Prediction?
Scott Galloway · 31:33
Take Facebook, Google, and Amazon. You're about to see a 30 to $100,000,000,000 increase in market cap over the last... Next ninety days as analysts begin doing a hard serious analysis of a breakup and a sum of the parts analysis, which is actually greater in terms of valuation than they are now. So the market's got it wrong. Look at these stocks to go up somewhere between 512% over the next ninety days. Once well regarded analysts, you know, the Mark Mahaney's of the world start coming out and saying, you know what? They got broken up, the shareholders benefit.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 32:03
Well, that is a... I like that. It's very smart, Scott. I'm gonna compliment you this week.
Scott Galloway · 32:07
It's very It's Elizabeth Warrenish.
Kara Swisher · 32:08
It's very... I'm glad you're away from Pete Buttigieg, and you're back to the smart lady. Although he's very smart too. So Michael Bennett is
Scott Galloway · 32:16
very smart.
Kara Swisher · 32:16
You like all the smart ones.
Scott Galloway · 32:18
IQ's the new black. IQ's the new black. What is? IQ. Smart.
Kara Swisher · 32:23
Is the new... Alright. Okay. Right. Okay.
Scott Galloway · 32:27
There you go.
Kara Swisher · 32:27
Alright. I'm so glad we started on the the nether regions of Scott Galloway and moved on to something more intelligent, but it's time to go. In a few days, we'll be together at the code conference, and we're gonna do a live pivot, which is gonna be fun. So I'll see you there in Arizona where it's a 104. K?
Scott Galloway · 32:44
Is it really a 104? Yeah. But it's a dry heat.
Kara Swisher · 32:48
Yeah. It's dry. Good thing you have no hair. It's be
Scott Galloway · 32:51
Thank god. Thank god. Anyway I'll see you in the Southwest. Is Megan McCain coming? Is Megan McCain coming? No. No? Her. I think of Arizona. I think of
Kara Swisher · 33:03
her. No.
Scott Galloway · 33:04
Sorry. Okay.
Kara Swisher · 33:05
She lives in
Scott Galloway · 33:05
New York. A McCain there.
Kara Swisher · 33:07
You want a what?
Scott Galloway · 33:09
I want a McCain there. Bring a McCain.
Kara Swisher · 33:11
I have no McCain.
Scott Galloway · 33:12
That's the only thing I know about Arizona.
Kara Swisher · 33:13
I'm gonna I'm gonna sail in the USS John McCain so Trump doesn't show up. Anyway, Camila Salazar produced our show today. Nishat Kurwa is Pivot's executive producer. Thanks also to Eric Johnson. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business live from the Code Conference. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts so you can listen to that great episode. And if you like this week's episode, leave us a review.
