Kara Swisher · 30:06
You know what? If I had authority, perhaps we would be
Scott Galloway · 30:09
a doctor. We don't People are
Kara Swisher · 30:10
very sorry. No.
Scott Galloway · 30:11
Don't give me a break.
Kara Swisher · 30:12
No. I do not have actual authority. Actual... Like, I do not have an ability to stop them from doing that. I have my mouth, which I can run on as you do, but I don't have authority.
Scott Galloway · 30:22
Run we will. Run like the wind, my sister.
Kara Swisher · 30:24
But it it seems like... Again, getting back to Charlize Theron, she... She's tired of fighting all the bad guys after a while, and this is the whole theme of this movie. But you get... Like, today on on on... When I was talking, I was like, I'm tired of saying this. I'm tired of, like, having to be the one to note it. And I I know Roger does it. You do it. Many others. It doesn't... They, like, wait you out. That's what they do. They just wait you out.
Scott Galloway · 30:46
Well, yeah. I gotta... I... You know, something... I'm I'm I'm I'm with you. People, I get a lot of calls, and I trust them. I'm like... In this big hearing coming out, and I just feel exhausted by it all. Do you feel exhausted? I feel exhausted
Kara Swisher · 30:56
by I do. I... They're not gonna... It's like with with Trump and other things. It's like today, Chuck Woolery. He was retweeting Chuck Woolery. I was like, are you kidding me?
Scott Galloway · 31:05
The game show host?
Kara Swisher · 31:06
Yes. He's very right wingy, and he says that science doesn't understand. No. Do do not... No. Go look and see what he just posted. He's like, you don't have to listen to doctors and medical people. This is all about hurting Trump and the election. He's crazy. No. Chuck Woolery is down Scott Bio Lane. He lives down there with Kim.
Scott Galloway · 31:24
Great actor.
Kara Swisher · 31:25
Oh my god. Come on. Oh my god. Of
Scott Galloway · 31:27
them
Guest · 31:27
have loves Chauchi.
Kara Swisher · 31:29
No. Joni hates Chauchi. Joni hates Chauchi. Let me just say both of those are big Trump supporters. That's a that's a level of celebrity he gets.
Scott Galloway · 31:36
I'm sorry. When Scott Baio and Chuck Woolery come out for Trump, I think that helps us.
Kara Swisher · 31:39
No. No.
Scott Galloway · 31:40
Go, guys. UBU.
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 31:41
Anyway, we're gonna talk about this. Like, in terms of what... Okay. I want a prediction before Rashad gets on of what you think that they... Facebook will come out with. What will it be? A total ban on political advertising, which I think is problematic, or what?
Scott Galloway · 31:56
The calculus they'll do, and I don't know what the decision is, I know the calculus leading up to the decision will be what will create the greatest perception or appearance of us doing anything over the minimum impact to revenue? That is the entire calculus driving that decision. What will we get the most potential credit for actually What moving
Kara Swisher · 32:15
is that? What will
Scott Galloway · 32:16
that be? This notion that, forty eight hours before the actual voting booths open, we will not allow political ads. Meaning that I think 8% of the revenue comes from political ads. If you cancel it the last seventy two hours or withhold it, you probably don't lose any revenue because if you give all your advertisers a heads up that that that the windows close for advertising seventy two hours before, you know, call it October 31, they lose no revenue. So they want to be perceived as doing something and being earnest. This is this trial balloon while having absolutely no impact to revenue. This is to their credit on some level, it's the most shareholder driven organization in the world, whether it means lying, whether it means addicting teens, whether it means perverting our elections. You know, honey badger just don't give a shit. What gets us the most money in the door? So they're gonna try and come up with something that looks like they're doing something but has absolutely no impact to their revenue.
Kara Swisher · 33:08
So something like cutting it off three days before the election.
Scott Galloway · 33:11
Which is what they're traveling. I mean, it seems ridiculous to me that that is even something that people think, oh, good for them. I mean, it's just so what?
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 33:17
I did not think good for them. Nice. That's what I said. It's just so what. Anyway, alright, Scott. Let's move on to a friend of Pivot who has a lot of opinions about Facebook. Rashad Robinson is the executive director of Color of Change, the country's largest racial justice organization. Last week, he was part of a meeting with Facebook executives about the July ad boycott on Facebook and the demands he and those companies have on the social media platform. He was not impressed by Zuckerberg's performance. Sheryl Sandberg was also on the call. Rashad, So, why don't you give us a rundown? I know you've been on the phone, before with these these two especially. So give us a rundown of what happened.
Guest · 33:59
So, you know, we got to the meeting and before the meeting, we had shared the list of demands again and demands are not complicated. These demands have been part of ongoing meetings, protests. Some of them have been highlighted in previous versions of the civil rights audit that have come out over the past year and a half, two years. And so we got to the meeting really with the goal of having them tell us what they thought and where they were heading because they actually requested the meeting. Right. And we've been very clear about the boycott. And so we got to the meeting and you know, they wanted us to go through and explain the demands. You know, I've been in a lot of meetings with Facebook. I've been in meetings with a lot of corporations where they get trained on how to run out the clock. They have these sort of strategies on how to, you know, have a meeting where they, you know, get you to talk a lot and then they don't actually have to tell you anything new. Mhmm. And so I I actually took the lead in the opening and really sort of pushed him like, hey. You know, you've got the demands. We actually wanna go through it. Right. Tell you where you're at. You brought
Kara Swisher · 35:06
them to them before. Is that correct? I mean, you had you you had mentioned... Mention one or two. Give me an...
Guest · 35:11
Yeah. So one is it was about a c suite civil rights leader that had budget and had the ability to oversee and weigh in on product and new policy. Another was specifically to deal with the political exemption and the way in which they kind of talk out of both sides of their mouth. On one hand, they'll say that they have political exemption, but they don't really use it and no one ever gets exempted. And then Donald Trump will get exempted, and then they'll say, well, that's because he didn't violate the policy, but they can't ever tell you Yeah. When he will violate the policy. It's just it's just like you're talking in circles. And so that's just another example of how you end up this situation where they may... We have spent years working on getting rules in place only for them to not enforce the rules when it actually matters. Right. And so I wanted them to go through this and you know my last meeting with Mark and Sheryl was on June 1 right after the looters and shooters post right after those posts around voter suppression where I, at the end of the meeting, was like, what are we doing here? Why are we continuing to meet if I don't feel like anything's happening and if you're trying to just explain to us why you haven't, you know, why you're working hard? They spent a lot of time in the meeting telling us why their platform... Why they're doing more than all the other social media platforms. Done
Kara Swisher · 36:30
that. They've gone around to advertisers and done that too.
Guest · 36:32
They're so much better. They're working so much harder. They have done things that other folks won't do. I mean, this is the kind of constant line. And, you know, at some point someone said in the meeting, so I guess what you're saying is that you're doing everything right and that we're just, you know, crazy. And they're like, no. No. No. That's not what we're saying. I'm like, no. What are you saying?
Kara Swisher · 36:54
Yeah. They're like, what
Guest · 36:55
are you saying to us if you're saying that, you are working hard. You're... This is part of an ongoing conversation. This is a start, not a finish. I mean, you've heard all these things as well. Yeah. And then they spend all this time telling you how great they are doing, how much better they're doing. And you're left to be like, soon, like
Kara Swisher · 37:12
So they were backed up by the audit too. Their own audit said exactly what you're saying, which was that they have have created a really dangerous situation, civil rights by favoring, favoring their version of free speech over civil rights. What do you... Why why do you think that is? You have spent time with him. If you were him, what would you do to to fix the structure among the demands of the first or second tier?
Guest · 37:39
Well, I would I would separate the the kind of decisions about moderation and content from his global policy shop.
Kara Swisher · 37:50
Mhmm.
Guest · 37:51
There is not a scenario moving forward where Joe Kaplan overseeing this is going to be fine with anyone. And if he replaces Joel Kaplan with someone else that has to oversee their relationships in Washington, other folks are not gonna be comfortable with that. The fact of the matter is is if these decisions are through the lens of how to keep policy makers and policy leaders happy, then you've actually violated one of the sort of opening tenants of bringing and fermenting sort of connection because you are making decisions rooted in keeping powerful people and powerful forces comfortable and happy which is what happens around the world, right? It happens here in The United States and we have a particular experience with it but other folks in other parts of the world have a different experience where protests might be illegal, where speaking out might be illegal. The fact of the matter is is that Facebook will tell us one thing about their intentions, but every single decision is rooted in profit and growth. Yeah. And every single decision is through that lens. So in order to keep profit and growth going, they actually have to stay friends with those in power.
Scott Galloway · 39:03
So Rashad, first off, kudos to you and color of change. I was really skeptical that this boycott was gonna have any impact and this boycott that you and your organization have catalyzed has had more impact than, and more awareness than almost any other effort I can see to date. So first off, well done. Secondly, quite frankly, I'm not sure it's going to do anything. Let's speculate that if you call on their better angels, that no one's home. And that you have to move back to applying financial pressure. Can you give us a sense of the state of the boycott and how you put pressure on or call on the better angels of the people at organizations that spend money on Facebook? What's the state of the boycott and how can you increase it 10 or 20 fold such you bring about real pressure, which in my view, financial pressure is the only lever that you or any of us have.
Guest · 39:57
Yeah. I mean, I think financial pressure as well as hopefully if we can change the sort of political levers in Washington
Kara Swisher · 40:05
Mhmm.
Guest · 40:06
That to me is the is the long game because even this type of effort feels like something that we just can't be in constant, go around with against the largest advertising platform the world has ever known. Right? And it just can't simply be about asking advertisers to walk away. I've had a lot of conversation with advertisers, a lot of conversations recently with the Madison Avenue firms who sort of manage advertisers trying to continue to get a pulse of where folks are at. I think one thing that's been really helpful here is that this conversation has trickled up to the board level at a lot
Kara Swisher · 40:44
of companies.
Guest · 40:46
And, you know, Facebook is really good. Cheryl is really good. Cheryl will pick up the phone and call you. And look, she's like a a personable person and
Scott Galloway · 40:54
and Very likable. Mhmm.
Guest · 40:55
She's in the role that she's in because she can sort of manage relationships. And a lot of folks who are in advertising who are in powerful positions of corporations don't wanna be on the opposite side of one of those powerful sort of corporations. Don't wanna be on the opposite side of the leadership inside the ad space at Facebook. And so they've built these relationships over time but because things have trickled up to the board level a lot of the sort of relationships are not as powerful anymore because they don't have the same levers with people who are making these decisions. They're getting pressured by other forces. I also think like some of the things that Mark has said about advertisers coming back. Some of the sort of flip ways he has sort of responded to this. I think we've, I've been able to sort of talk directly with corporate CEOs and be like, well, you know it's one thing for Mark to call us weak for us to say he doesn't have to think about sort of what we are demanding, but you know, a bunch of corporate CEOs at what point are you all gonna like stand up? At what point are you all gonna like say Yeah.
Kara Swisher · 41:57
Those are not
Guest · 41:58
gonna let this person walk walk all over you. And I think that that I think has been part of their challenging missteps is that I think that they have stepped on the ego of a lot of folks who have ego and who don't wanna be treated like that they're not valuable or their opinions don't matter.
Kara Swisher · 42:16
One of the things is they don't like Facebook. None... You can talk to most of them. They will... They they tolerate it because they need it because it's the only game in town. And you're right about the political levers. So two two things I'd love to know. What what do you think the impact right now of what Facebook is doing on people of color? Because you have a group that's not just people of color. You have the ADL. You've got the the NAACP. You've got
Guest · 42:36
so many groups you're working with. What is the impact on society right now for these continued, I would call them abuses by Facebook to the general public? Yeah, mean the technology that's supposed to bring us into the future is in so many ways dragging us into the past where we had created a sense of social context, social contracts around the ways that white nationalists could organize. Right? They can't organize at the Starbucks in a public space and have a meeting. They couldn't like do things out in public in the same ways and the ways in which the incentive structures at Facebook have allowed people to not only organize, but you know, when someone starts to, you know, a 15 year old that sort of is searching for some one thing runs into some white nationalist content and then goes down a hole because they get served more and more of this content because the ways that the algorithms are set up, they're almost sort of indoctrinated into these ideas that in many ways there's been a lot of effort to like put at the margins. They have created a space that it feels like home, makes these things comfortable, makes these things acceptable. And so to that extent that has been damaging. And at the same time, Facebook has refused to be accountable. So I was having a conversation with Alicia Garza, who's one of the cofounders of Black Lives Matter. Alicia famously post... Posted Black Lives Matter on Facebook right after the Zimmerman verdict, you know, after... Which tried to
Kara Swisher · 44:09
start it. It was a damn thing....
Guest · 44:11
How started. Mark talks about it. He talked about it in his free expression speech at Georgetown. And Alicia gets regular death threats. She's a friend of mine and a colleague in the movement and she gets regular death threats on Facebook. And she has to go through the same decision tree that anyone else has to go through. And she's had about 20 over the last like several months and every one of them has been declined through automation. She goes in, she puts the thing, she passes off and they say something about it doesn't violate. Never a phone call from Facebook, never an outreach, never sort of the engagement one would expect. And so this is Alicia who's on TV, who is like well known, who has who actually like they use her name, they use her work in the cases they make around this and they like don't even respond to the attacks that she's getting. It's because they don't care. The same way Mark can say that these fortune 500 advertisers don't matter. He's on the other hand saying that black activists in this, their voices don't matter. Like the fact of the matter is like one would imagine how he would have treated SNCC organizers, how he would have treated, you know the sort of civil rights leaders that we lionize in terms of the ways in which they were attacked and targeted. And all of this right is because you've got this person that has far too much control and believes that they and they alone sort of understand what's right and we don't actually have the levers to challenge them. And so I really appreciate what you said around the boycott and I feel really proud of what we've been able to do. But part of this from my perspective has always been about raising the level of attention and energy and focus so that we can advance the real conversation about twenty first century rules of the road. Because we... It's not just Facebook, it is that all of these platforms if left to their own devices will rely on the wrong set of incentive structures because profit and growth are key drivers to why they sort of exist.
Scott Galloway · 46:22
I'm always fascinated by, I don't know how old you are, you sound young. What advice would you give to a younger person or your younger self who wants a career in activism or social justice? How did you get where you are and what advice would you give to people who wanna be in a career that makes a difference?
Guest · 46:44
Yeah. A couple of things. When I... You know, I I grew up in a really, like, involved political family. I grew up in a town that was, like, 10% black on Eastern Long Island, so we had to organize for everything. I also learned what it means to, like, be involved with multiracial coalitions, like to be rooted in your community but recognizing that you have to build alliances to get anything done. You know, I think the thing that I oftentimes give people advice around is around disrupting magical thinking about how change happens. Like constantly questioning sort of what are the levers that we actually have to pull. I think we tell ourselves stories about that if we just change hearts and minds or that if we just have the right set of ideas that that will win. And I constantly help people. And I think I talk to folks in my own organization, people who come to me, is to really start wrestling with power. Because the reason why we don't have equality equality for for women, women, for people of color, the reason why we still have so many challenges is not related to like ideas. It's not related to hearts and minds. It is related to power. And that means that we actually have to build institutions and that means we have to be part of institutions. So the final thing I tell people is like, we sometimes tell a story that a single person can sort of like unlock stuff on their own and make change. And I just don't think that that's true. I think that like, yes, a single people each of us individually are important but we actually have to be part of things, right? Like this campaign was not built on a Twitter strategy an individual person's Twitter account. Now we've learned from a lot of people out in social media but it was built because we built infrastructure over the years. And then that infrastructure could leverage and make sure corporations did things that they didn't want it have to do and then followed up with them and then engage them and create an incentive for them to feel like if they did it they would be publicly rewarded. All of those things take time and you just don't make change overnight.
Scott Galloway · 48:48
So just to interrupt you along the lines of change, just a call to action here Rashad. If people buy into what you're saying and what Color of Change is doing with respect to Facebook, what are the one or two things any of the three and a half billion Facebook users could do right now if they wanted to be supportive of your actions? What's the call to action?
Guest · 49:06
So a couple of things. I think that folks need to first and foremost vote in this upcoming election. And I think that people need to make sure that politicians know that we want to hold big institutions accountable and that we vote because the long game is a new set of rules and we just don't get that by wishing. The second thing I think for folks who are like actively using Facebook is that if they see negative content, if they see content that's hateful and they see an advertiser next to it, send that to the advertiser. Advertisers need to consistently hear from consumers that why are you sponsoring this type of content? Why do you have your brands next to this type of content? Most most... The vast majority, the overwhelming majority of advertisers are not trying to have their stuff next to this but Facebook is telling them one story and there's a totally different story that's actually sort of at play. Yeah. And then sort of finally, I think that all of us have to be really active users about the content that's coming our way. What what are we clicking on? What are we sharing? What are we engaging with? Because the level of disinformation and misinformation that's gonna be sort of on platform as we head into this election is gonna be outrageous. And we all sort of in our day to day lives can play a role in disrupting that and Cleaning pushing up. Back on
Kara Swisher · 50:31
Yeah. Last question for me. They had just announced that they floated a trial balloon, that they're gonna cut off all political advertising. I am not a fan of this because I think it's Neither
Guest · 50:40
am I.
Kara Swisher · 50:40
Not nuanced. It's not complex. It doesn't require them to do anything, but, you know, it's not even virtue signaling. I don't know what it is. It's so dumb. I can't even begin to start. What what what do you think? You do not want that. You want them to just just... And, also, it doesn't address the issue of political content, not not just political advertising. What would... What do you think of that?
Guest · 51:02
Well, like, a in a country that's like... Was supposedly the story we are told, right, was founded on insurgents, right, who, like, wanted to make their voice heard up against powerful elites even if they kept so many other people out, right? This bakes in the people who are already in charge, right? If folks who are have emerging voices can't build audience, can't use this, It's going to prioritize people who can pay for TV ads. And you know, part of why these platforms are actually even helpful, useful is that they allow for people to engage people that they wouldn't otherwise reach. The other thing is that for groups like mine, I have to pay to reach my audience. I like I we built an audience but then we have to pay to reach them. And if I can't, and if they are classifying things that we're doing as political, then that creates a problem. Facebook has been really bad also about what is political and what's not political. Like ads for LGBT Pride celebrations have been classified as political over the years. And so like, is that political? Is it political to just to say that you're gay? Like, or and maybe it is, but is that politics like an election? Like do like, if this is their way of not actually having to have take responsibility for disinformation, for lying, for hate content their platform that money gets put behind. This is their way of continuing to make a lot of money without being responsible and not offending people that might, sort of play a role in holding them accountable. And, and it's not cute and we don't think it's a good trial balloon and I've already had that conversation with
Kara Swisher · 52:53
Good. Well, they have the oversight board, Rashad. I mean, come on. I
Guest · 52:58
mean I mean, I remember when they've called us about the oversight board and I asked, like, the questions that one asks when someone says has an oversight board, like, will those people, sort of, you know, what will those people's charge will be? I mean, I remember when the looters and shooters post happened, and I asked them about the oversight board, and they said something to me about, like, those people not being fully on board yet. They didn't have laptops. Yeah. And, they hadn't gotten their laptops. And all I could think of was, like, looking at these people's names and credibility and and bylines. It was like, oh, those people don't have laptops? Are you joking with me? Like...
Kara Swisher · 53:33
Yeah. But they're very good at a Davos dinner party, Rashaad. Yes. Absolutely. You know what I mean? And what do you... What what what is your next move? People getting boycotts or continuing the pressure? Because they
Guest · 53:43
do need the West. Mark... I mean, July 27, Mark testifies in front of congress on antitrust. And honestly like a corporation that has become so big and powerful where they don't listen to major corporations, where they don't have to listen to social justice leaders means that there are questions about has this platform become too powerful and does it sit in the space of needing new rules which I've sort of talked about. I think that that is the next sort of phase in and this how do we sort of get ourselves ready for that. And then the sort of end of July and beyond. You know, we are also in ongoing conversations with Facebook as they keep trying to have meetings with us to explain how they've done everything that we've asked them to do, which they continue to tell advertisers that they've done everything that we've asked them to do only to find like every week we get like BuzzFeed who shows a new white nationalist group that's been on their platform. You know, like the problem for Facebook is that are asking people to trust them and big companies to trust them. And the thing, the message I have for big companies is like, do you think that they're gonna embarrass you? Because I have a quick answer for you, they will. And so like, just know that time and time again, they have no problem with embarrassing you, embarrassing your brand so that they can keep the systems running as is and not have to make changes. So we've got to help them make changes or we've got to get new rules in place.
Kara Swisher · 55:11
Rashad, thank you so much. I don't know what to say. It's great to hear a voice like you. It's all... Your whole group is fantastic. You you all should pay attention, and advertisers should absolutely be paying attention to this as we're going forward. And I... Anything we can do to help, we certainly will. And we appreciate you being on.
Scott Galloway · 55:28
Thanks. Nice meeting you, Rashad.
Kara Swisher · 55:29
Pleasure. Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Rashad rocks. Hi, everyone. This is Kara Swisher.
Scott Galloway · 55:43
And I'm Scott Galloway.
Kara Swisher · 55:45
And we wanna tell you about Pivot, our twice weekly podcast.
Scott Galloway · 55:48
That's right, Kara. What a thrilling chance for us to break down all the big things happening in tech, business, and politics.
Kara Swisher · 55:54
Yes. And I keep you in check so people can make it through each episode, whether it's digging into constant changes in the world of AI and social media or trying to keep up with whatever the fuck Elon is doing. We're here to give you our take on all of that.
Scott Galloway · 56:06
Every Tuesday and Friday morning, we drop a new episode about some of the major stories of the moment.
Kara Swisher · 56:11
And Scott is a prediction machine gazing into his crystal ball to tell you about where it's all heading.
Scott Galloway · 56:16
That's right.
Kara Swisher · 56:17
So if that sounds like a good time for you, especially especially mister that's right, you can follow us on your favorite podcast app to get new episodes every week. Boom. Okay, Scott. Wins and fails. I'd say Rashad Robinson is a win, but what is your wins and fails this week?
Scott Galloway · 56:39
My win is an opinion piece in New York Times by Anne Borden King and she disclosed her breast cancer diagnosis on Facebook and immediately started receiving alternative cancer care, ads. In other words, pseudoscience, everything from, using different types of silver or non toxic cancer therapies on a beach in Mexico or cumin seeds. You know, and as someone who's been around a number of people who have terminal cancer, this is when people are at their most vulnerable and they are grasping for hope and very susceptible to this kind of junk science. It's not pseudoscience. It really is fraudulent. And it's at the end of the day, it's just not, I can't, I just can never see MSNBC or Snap or the New York Times deciding that, okay, this is clearly junk science preying on the most vulnerable. We're just not gonna allow it. And of course Facebook sees as long as their check clears, we'll let you target people who have late stage metastatic breast cancer with junk science cures. It's just, it's really, it kind of cuts to the notion that of, what does this say about the character and the code of the people at Facebook who are approving these ads and cashing these checks and sending the invoices and then figuring out who to target with these ads. And if we didn't have so many like gigantic dumpster fires at Facebook, we'd have the time to say, all right, Facebook, should you really be preying on vulnerable cancer patients? And anyways, Ms. King brought that to light. I thought very, very eloquently. My loss is, I just think it's fascinating. I'm doing a ton of work looking at schools that have the most international students and who is most vulnerable. University of Rochester, 37%, Mount Holyoke, 28%, BU, 24, Bryn Mawr, 22%, Bennington College, 21%, NYU, 19%. And then you could double each of those numbers and that's probably the respective cash flow. So if BU gets half its cash flow from international students and all of them go home, you could literally have, I mean these universities are so vulnerable. And these towns, it gets more nuanced because a place like BU or NYU, they have
Kara Swisher · 58:58
They have New York. They have
Scott Galloway · 58:59
great brands. They have big endowments. They're gonna be fine. This is a gut punch. But some universities that could go away that have not great endowments, high admit rates, meaning that they don't have waiting lists to dip into when they get desperate, large international, very expensive. An organization or a university like Sarah Lawrence that has 12% international, 56 admin rate, a middling endowment. University of San Francisco, 50,000 a year, 13% international, 65% admin rate.
Kara Swisher · 59:30
You know, that's used by commuters and people who don't have the money.
Scott Galloway · 59:33
And Fordham. Even Fordham, a a kind of a global brand. 50,000 a year, 9% international, a 46% admin rate, meaning they don't have big waiting lists. You could literally... So the University of Rochester, you could see some brand names we know go out of business by January.
Kara Swisher · 59:48
Wow. That's a big one. That's a big one. You know, it was interesting. I... Amanda noticed that there was a a college for sale in Vermont. I thought you and I could buy it. It's $3,000,000 and start it. It's like Scott and Kerry University.
Scott Galloway · 1:00:00
There you go.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:01
Like, you know what I mean? You couldn't be worse than Trump.
Scott Galloway · 1:00:04
Heaven would for people who don't believe in heaven.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:07
I know. We would we would have the best college. We would have the best college together. Some of the think...
Scott Galloway · 1:00:12
Anyway, thinking of buying it for you.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:15
I I was thinking of buying it for you, and and then we could argue... You could argue about cancel culture the entire... Anyway, I have a a fail, of course. Tucker Carl son's, top writer resigned after he was found. He'd been posting racist, homophobic, and sexist comments online for years. Yes. I can. Because he does it every day on the show. Like, he's like... He he... I think he was in date club at on the Washington Post. You gotta go read the date thing. It's linked to in many of the stories. He... You know, the Washington Post has this date lab or whatever where he puts two people together, and it's disturbing. The date lab is disturbing. You could already see him say, like, all this stuff that he's trying to trigger this poor woman on the date with him. But I have to say, no. I'm not surprised. They do it every day on the show. Like... So it's worse. It's the same stuff.
Guest · 1:01:00
Yeah. But to
Scott Galloway · 1:01:01
think that one of the most Tucker Carlson gets huge ratings, and supposedly the president watches it religiously. So arguably, this is the... One of the most influential media properties in the world. And the most influential voice at that media organization, even maybe more influential than Tucker who's writing this, ends up as a raging, closeted, misogynist, and racist?
Kara Swisher · 1:01:24
I don't think it's closeted. I think
Scott Galloway · 1:01:26
it's tough to put on pseudonyms. He wasn't even saying
Kara Swisher · 1:01:28
it's even worse. That. But on this show, when they put, you know, women of color, always attacking, constantly attacking, someone who's an... Tammy Duckworth, they do it in the
Scott Galloway · 1:01:38
open. Agreed.
Kara Swisher · 1:01:39
I... They do it in the open. They just do it slightly less. It's like it's like that same Tom Cotton thing in the New York Times. It was a Yeah.
Scott Galloway · 1:01:46
But I thought it was for business reasons. It's just that these guys are just fucking weirdos.
Kara Swisher · 1:01:50
No. They really... Go read that date lab. It'll freak you out. You're like, run, young woman. Run from this man. It was, like, full of just awful just... God. Jesus. Like, I literally am like, I I just don't know what to say because these are just awful.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:06
Your fail is a win.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:07
My fail wins. Yes. He's just awful. When? I don't know a win. I don't know a win this week. I think... I... I'm still loving that. We gotta get the Lincoln Project people on here because I think their ads are fantastic. Fantastic. Just fantastic. And, they just really... They know when to go for the jugular. And I was on Rick Wilson's, podcast this week with Molly Jungfest. And they were... I was like, you guys are so good at this. And they're getting noticed. They're getting... I didn't realize they have $16,000,000 now and a staff of 67. And whoever does their online media, whoever does their Twitter is so smart and funny, that it's really great. And I do think it's gonna make a difference. I know, you know, we can please ourselves and do something, but they seem to understand exactly where to where to shoot. Alright, Scott. We have to go. Okay. Thank you, Rishad Robinson. You were great. But don't forget, if you can't get enough pivot, we're doing a live stream event for the month of August. It's called pivot school from New York Magazine and Vox Media Podcast Network. Unfortunately, it's virtual, but someday we're gonna be at a school, our school in Vermont that we start together, the Kara and Scott University or the Scott and Kara University,
Scott Galloway · 1:03:11
whichever way
Kara Swisher · 1:03:12
can do it. Scare.
Scott Galloway · 1:03:15
Scare of you. It's expensive, but not worth it. Okay.
Kara Swisher · 1:03:21
Okay. Oh my god. That's brilliant. Yeah. That is really... You couldn't come up with a plan for for the Washington sports team, but you have a good name for our university. Anyway, you can get tickets at pivsschool.com.
Scott Galloway · 1:03:32
But horrified at our political incorrectness.
Kara Swisher · 1:03:36
There's also a link in our show show notes. We're gonna only... The only curriculum will be whether cancel culture exists or not or should. Anyway, don't forget if there's a story in the news and you're curious about it and wanna hear our opinion on it, email us at pivot@voxmedia.com to be featured on the show. Scott, please read
Scott Galloway · 1:03:52
this show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Fernando Finite engineered this episode. Erica Anderson is Pivot's executive producer. Thanks also to Drew Burrows. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. Or if you're an Android user, check us out at Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like the show, please recommend it to a friend. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. It is never too late to unite against a common enemy. Our common enemy is a novel coronavirus. Every mask, every attempt to distance is an act of citizenship, an act of generosity, an
Guest · 1:04:32
act of
Scott Galloway · 1:04:33
love. Let's beat the shit out of this thing. It is not too late to salvage something here. Let's get on it. Let's get on it, Kara. Let's distance.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:42
Let's match.... What I'm just saying? You know what I'm saying? You're trying to appeal people's better angels. I'm saying don't be a mascold.
Guest · 1:04:48
That's what
Kara Swisher · 1:04:49
I said.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:49
Also, don't be a mascold. As we teach it, scare you. Don't be a mascold. Have a good week, Kara.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:57
Thanks.
