Guest · 55:17
There are other studies that show that it's actually sort of biologically hard to listen, that our brains, for example, are hardwired to process, I think, 800 words a minute, but people only speak a 125. So you're sitting there, and that person is talking, but your brain has all these unused cycles that going like, let me find something to do. And they start thinking about not... You know, next weekend, what they're gonna do or email, or they start thinking, like Scott said, what am I gonna say as soon as this person stops talking?
Kara Swisher · 55:44
Right. That's what it is. That is... It... Does does remote work impact them more on Zoom, for example? Because it makes it more difficult. Like, no. You go ahead. No. You go. It's a very different speaking environment.
Guest · 55:55
I think remote work makes it easier. It helped me. It was a great place to practice, especially on a group call. It's actually very easy to hit mute and to sit back, and you have the... A thing where you can put your hand up. So if you do wanna interrupt, you sort of put your hand up, and then you wait your turn. But you still have you still have crosstalk in Zoom calls, and it's just like in a physical meeting. Watch who does most of the talking and most of the interrupting. But I I think it was a great place for me to practice.
Scott Galloway · 56:20
I I love, Dan, what you said about how it's impacted positively the relationship with your daughter. Can you think of any other instances, either with your wife or with friends, where your newfound skillset around listening has impacted the relationship?
Guest · 56:38
Yeah. Sort of the through line of the book is my marriage. And just before the pandemic lockdown, my wife and I separated. It was very painful, and I was living away from her and the kids, pretty close, but in this rented house. I really did not want to get divorced. I really, really wanted to put things back together. And this is part of me taking stock of, you know, God, I often say stuff that's... You know, I don't need to say. And I started working on it in the way we would communicate, and I came up with this idea that I describe in the book as non talk therapy, because we had tried a lot of talk therapy, and I have this sequence of... We went to this guy, and he said this. This guy said this. This guy said this. And we finally got to this woman who said, you know what? Just break up. Like, just give up. Like, I know I'm a marriage counselor. Give up. And we started spending time. As I was writing this book and discovering all this stuff and doing this research, I thought, you know, maybe we should spend time together and not say much, or at least I should not say much. And there's research that shows couples who spend time together in silence deepen their bond. So we would take the dog out into the woods in the... And just to swim and just kind of sit. And I would make rules to myself before we had... I would take her out to dinner and say, before we go in, I would tell myself, I'm not gonna say anything except reflect back what she says and ask questions. And it really began to work. We really sort of began to click again, and we did get back together. We're back together now, and I I give it a lot of credit. And here's the interesting thing. When you listen and let people talk, they shine. They actually become more interesting. I interviewed a professor about this, and I said, you know, I did this with a couple people, not my wife. And this person became so fascinating. Like, I swear, I don't think... Maybe it was my perception. She said, no. People become more interesting when they're listened to. So my wife just dazzled and just, you know, really just was fantastic when I just... I was paying attention. I was listening actively. That's the other thing.
Kara Swisher · 58:48
You know, I had a friend who said the exact same thing. She was married. They separated. She was very sad, and she was like, oh, I gotta start dating again. And I saw her recently, and they are back together. And I said, what happened? He said he started listening to me.
Guest · 59:02
I mean, Scott, that probably makes sense to you too. Right?
Scott Galloway · 59:05
I'm just really... Dan, to be blunt, I'm moved. I think it's it's really wonderful and important when impressive men such as yourself speak openly and in a vulnerable manner about the relationship with their daughters and their wives. We just as men usually don't feel comfortable talking about those things. So I'm just impressed and want to commend you for the confidence you reflect. How do you help your kids as a parent? How do you train your I'm raising two boys, and I love the power of silence. I think there's a real power to it, both in terms of exhibiting confidence, being a good partner, being a good friend. And also, quite frankly, I think you're more attractive as a potential mate when you have the confidence to be silent. Any thoughts around helping younger people? Until my forties, I thought it was my job as a leader to fill every empty space and that the way I would impress people is to show them how smart I am and just not shut the fuck up, as you put it. How do you how do you teach kids and young young managers, to do this other than just saying, listen more?
Guest · 1:00:12
Maybe maybe you lead by example. I think... I have twins. They're 17 now, a boy and a girl. So I write more about my daughter in the book. But with my son, my son is very introverted. He keeps a lot close. There's a lot going on, but he's not saying much. And I've learned if I just sort of, you know, ride with him in the car... Cars are a great place to do this, by the way, because you... First of all, they can't run away. And secondly, you know, you're sitting next to each other, but you're not looking at each other. And you can sit in the car and sort of maybe say nothing for a while or say something open ended. And if I... Again, like, with my... My son is very much like my wife. If I shut up long enough, he will start to talk, and he will take me on this journey, and I will find out what it is that he wants to talk about, but I really have to hold back. So, yeah, I think it's being intentional, and it's also being active. It's not... Well, there's the silent treatment silence. My wife and I used to do a hell of a lot of that. But there's the open and active silence, but where you're engaged. And it's it's intentional. The the the biggest thing about listening is that it it just has to be intentional, and you have to keep telling yourself before every conversation to to remember to listen.
Kara Swisher · 1:01:31
When... We're in a world of really, you know, we joke about Elon Musk, but he never shuts up. There's never a thought that doesn't come out of his his mouth that's usually ignorant, but same thing with Trump or social media, Marjorie Joseph Greene. There's a volume of free speech that should not be speak... Spoken, like, you know what I mean? Whether they they can do it or not, certainly. But it seems like everybody is... There... There's a noise level that's so high right now.
Guest · 1:01:56
Yeah. I think the world is way too noisy, which is why the second half of the title is, you know, the power of keeping your mouth shut in an endlessly noisy world, and it just keeps getting worse. And I think that information overload is doing bad things to our brains, And one thing it is doing is encouraging us to sort of get in there and be even louder. So I think those people are terrible role models for the rest of us.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:18
Yeah. I would think so. Anyway, the book is shut the f up, the power of keeping your mouth shut in an endlessly noisy world. Dan is a wonderful writer. It's a wonderful book, Dan. I read I read everything you write because you're such a good writer. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. And you moved Scott, and now he's silent. You've rendered him silent.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:36
It's my power move, bitches. It's my power move.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:41
Anyway, thank you, Dan.
Guest · 1:02:42
Thank you, guys. Nice meeting Bye. Thank you.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:44
I thought you'd like him, Scott. I knew you would.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:47
I do like him.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:48
He's a great guy. He's a wonderful writer, but also, it's a great topic and it was... I I was very surprised that he he got so personal in this book. It was really, it was really important and he's right. He did talk too much. I know it sounds crazy. He's a very funny talker, that's why he talked so much because he got a lot of attention for talking a lot. Yeah. So it's great. Anyway, we'll be back for predictions.
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— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 1:04:23
Okay, Scott. I'll let you have a prediction since I was so right this week. And let me just say again, I'm right again.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:28
I I love how you wade into Twitter to correct people that it wasn't a joint prediction. It wasn't Scott. It was me. It was me.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:37
Well, I never get credit for my... Well, it was a very good... It was it was point on. I never get it. They always are like, oh, that was Scott. Even my wife was like, was it Kara or Scott? I literally was like, are you... I wrote... Called her. I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, for the once, I get it right, and you think it's Scott.
Scott Galloway · 1:04:53
I think it's common sense to think, oh, it must have been the man.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:56
It must have been the man. But seriously, my wife thought it might be you. I know. What set me off. That's what set me off.
Scott Galloway · 1:05:04
Anyways, my prediction, I was at Expedia yesterday. By the way, if you ever go to work for a company, go to work for a Barry Dillard company. He is a fan of building the most beautiful offices in the world. This is one of the most extraordinary campuses I've ever been on. Anyway, and somebody asked in Q and A, what sector will register the greatest impact from AI? And I've been thinking a lot about disruption and where AI is going to go, and I'm trying to wrap my head around it. And if you look back and you think about people say, well, Google was the technology that changed the world. Disruption is, in my view, as much or more of a function than the actual disruptive technology than how ripe an incumbent industry is to be disrupted. And that is if you look at the advertising industrial complex, every year, it raised its prices to reach fewer viewers. It just stuck its chin out. If you look at cable television and how Netflix interrupted it every year, they just raised fees because of these regulated monopolies when you woke up, and you're like, okay. I'm paying $200 a month for food channels, you know, Food Network three, four, and five. And so if you were to look at this, what is the most disruptable industry, as a means of saying that's the tail that's going to wag the dog around where AI is going to make the most inroads, my prediction is that 2024 is going to be the year of AI driven health care startups because I don't think there's any industry that is more ripe to be disrupted than the industry that's growing faster than inflation. And again, we talked about this last week, only one in five consumers are happy with. So I think where we're gonna see... Just as we we we at the beginning, it does... It seems obvious now, but it's not entirely obvious that Google would have disrupted the advertising industry. That's... I think a lot of people wouldn't have said, well, that's the industry that's gonna get hurt the most.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:55
Yeah. Have you started... Helped my brother start his company yet?
Scott Galloway · 1:06:59
I haven't spoken to Jeffrey, but I will. I'm sure I'll
Kara Swisher · 1:07:01
see him.
Guest · 1:07:01
You should.
Kara Swisher · 1:07:01
You should.
Scott Galloway · 1:07:02
Next time we all get together, it's always a Swisher family reunion. I'm sure I'm gonna see him soon.
Kara Swisher · 1:07:06
Yes. It's true. But you should... That was a good idea. I think he liked it. Your idea was an excellent idea.
Scott Galloway · 1:07:11
Yeah, Cara. I used to this for a living.
Kara Swisher · 1:07:12
Anyways I know. So I... I'm not insulting you, sir. Have
Scott Galloway · 1:07:16
to listen
Kara Swisher · 1:07:17
to what I'm saying
Guest · 1:07:18
is To
Scott Galloway · 1:07:18
talk. I used to get paid to talk to old white guys. That that... I basically have made a living renting my brain to old white guys.
Kara Swisher · 1:07:25
That is correct.
Scott Galloway · 1:07:26
That is correct. Anyways, but you're gonna see... I think the space just as Google disrupted advertising, just as Netflix disrupted disrupted, cable, I think you're gonna see AI's first kind of really fertile ground or real chaos that's going to start in terms of a reshuffling of stakeholder value is going to be in health care. And that's everything from helping you find or diagnose stuff, develop treatment plans. I mean, you think about virologists or pathologists and what AI could do or radiologists, I mean, you're gonna see massive disruption. And I think consumers are gonna start leaning on different generative AI models, and they're gonna start developing the interface and the trust. I think it's gonna
Kara Swisher · 1:08:13
be fascinating. Question everyone's asking. Again, the student part I was at was... Everyone was at only about AI. It's really interesting. Everyone's... Can feel something's happening and not crypto. Crypto was more like, how can I make money? This is what's gonna change. Anyway, we'll see. That's an excellent prediction, Scott. We wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 Scott, that is the show. Another action packed show as usual where we have a little tension and just a tiny bit of love.
— Predictions segment ends —
Scott Galloway · 1:08:45
It's a healthy tension.
Kara Swisher · 1:08:46
It's healthy tension.
Scott Galloway · 1:08:47
Just Healthy tension.
Kara Swisher · 1:08:48
Love. Anyway, I'm gonna... I commit myself to not listening to you more every week. Anyway
Scott Galloway · 1:08:54
Sixty forty. Sixty forty.
Kara Swisher · 1:08:56
Get it. It's fifty fifty. I don't care. I don't mind you talk more. I really don't. It's it's it's planned by... On my part, most of it.
Scott Galloway · 1:09:03
No. I noticed. I think it's very deliberate.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:04
Anyway, we'll be back next week for more. Scott, please read us out.
Scott Galloway · 1:09:08
Today's show is produced by Lara Nimon, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertaught engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Miel Silberio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Pro tip to increase the intimacy of your relationships, just shut the fuck up. Listen.
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