Scott Galloway · 19:56
Not to forget when you put their dads in jail, which he did to Jared. Yeah. But I
Kara Swisher · 20:00
think He doubled down on it too. He's like, that was the most disgusting prosecution. I was glad I did it. Like, he's not even backing off that in a lot of
Scott Galloway · 20:07
Yeah. He's not he's not, yeah, he's not apologizing. But if you've... I don't... Have you seen any of the media interviews he's done over
Kara Swisher · 20:12
the last couple He's always very... He's he's a smart man. Although, you know... And I don't I don't love his denials of what happened in wherever the heck when he was just stopping up the traffic on the bridge. Bridgegate? Yeah. Bridgegate. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's a liar about that. I think not... His people did it. I don't... I think he
Scott Galloway · 20:27
Anyways, my win Yeah. Governor Christie.
Kara Swisher · 20:30
Okay. Alright. Your win. My win is is historian Rutger Bregman, who called out the billionaires at Davos for not talking about tax avoidance, and he got a back... They... Him and Winnie Bayanaima, from Oxfam had a, a back and forth with someone I know very well, the c f... Former CFO of Yahoo, Ken Goldman, about it. Let's listen to mister Bregman talk about this.
Speaker · 20:53
The answer is very simple. Just stop talking about philanthropy and start talking about taxes. Taxes. Taxes. We need to... I mean, just two days ago, was a billionaire in here. What's his name? Michael Dell. And he asked the question like, name me one country where a top marginal tax rate of 70% has actually worked. Mhmm. And, you know, I'm a historian. The United States. That's where it has actually worked. In the nineteen fifties, during Republican president Eisenhower, you know, the war veteran, the top marginal tax rate in The US was 91% for people like Michael Dell. You know, the top estate tax for people like Michael Dell was more than 70%. I mean, this is not rocket science. I mean, we can talk for a very long time about all these stupid philanthropy schemes. We can divide Bono once more. But come on. It's... We gotta be talking about taxes. Yeah. Taxes. Taxes. Taxes. All the rest is bullshit in in my opinion.
Kara Swisher · 21:44
Thank you. So here he is, making the the salient point that we had it in this country for years. This is this is not, and he... I love we can talk for a very long time about all these stupid philanthropy schemes. We can invite Bono once more. That was my favorite. What do you think of this? He's he's... Taxes, taxes, taxes. You don't like taxes, I'm guessing.
Scott Galloway · 22:04
Well, it's it's... Complexity favors the wealthy and our tax system slowly but surely, whether it's capital gains on stocks, one... The top 1% own 50% of the stocks. So capital gains tax deduction is nothing but a transfer of wealth from the poor of the rich. Even I would argue mortgage tax, mortgage interest tax deduction is nothing but a transfer of wealth from the poor of the rich because who who owns homes? Old rich people who rents young middle class people. So our tax system slowly but surely has been nothing but an elegant transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. I would love somebody to do an analysis. I believe the the most valuable company in the world and the wealthiest man in the world, Amazon and Jeff Bezos, respectively, have not only not paid any tax, but I believe they've been subsidized by the government. I think when New York gives $3,000,000,000 in subsidies to Amazon as a function of this incredibly dept gamification of the Commonwealth, with Bezos owning 16% of the company, effectively, the government has written a check to Jeff Bezos personally for $500,000,000. Yeah. And if you look at what Bezos has likely done with his wealth, he never sells shares, so he never incurs a tax liability. He just borrows against his shares from JPMorgan at probably a 2% interest rate and keeps rolling, but never actually pays taxes. And then he'll put all his wealth in a trust, and it'll be transferred without taxes. So he's basically building a dynasty that's been subsidized by taxpayers. The wealthiest man in the world, most valuable company in the world, not paying any taxes.
Kara Swisher · 23:37
Yeah. But we can invite Bono once more. That's what we can do. I I
Scott Galloway · 23:40
I There you go.
Kara Swisher · 23:41
I think this does resonate with a lot
Scott Galloway · 23:42
of from Brazil who paints with their feet. Yeah. You gotta find someone who paints with their feet.
Kara Swisher · 23:47
You know, I I think it does resonate in this election. I think this topic is gonna be a bit what do we do about the rich kind of thing. I think it's not an attack... It's really interesting because the Silicon Valley people, all of a sudden, they're like, taxes. Like, it's really fascinating because I think they're sort of in the know that they're not really paying their fair share and how it ruins innovation, and you'll... They'll they'll they'll they'll trot out everything else. But it's a really interesting thing that it's being discussed as much as it... I don't know if it'll go anywhere because it's it's not just Ragman. It's Ocasio and others, the marginal tax rate. And we'll see if it goes anywhere. It will certainly affect tech given how much money they all have. So it'll be interesting where different tech people come down on this issue, and and what taxes they're willing to pay or what's willing to go through. So it should be an ongoing... It's gonna be an ongoing story. And some people will think of it as an attack, a class war kind of thing. I... I'm not so sure that's the case. I think there's... A lot of people are laying out very good arguments for what's going on. But we'll see if that matters.
Scott Galloway · 24:41
If But it's... What... What's interesting about it, it's a nuanced argument because you know who gets really screwed, Kara, is, what I would refer to as the workhorses, and that is people who earn, call it, between a 100 or a $150 in a million dollars a year in current income. If you live in New York or California, you're paying an effective tax rate of between forty eight and fifty two percent. Mhmm. So the kind of what you call the the wealthy current income workhorses, the partners in law firms, the entrepreneurs, but the people who don't pay their fair share are the people who get the majority of their income through capital gains. Mhmm. Basically, the investors and kind of the capital owners. But the people who do get... Who do who do, I think, pay an unfair share to the to the high end are who a lot of people would deem as wealthy, the workhorses. So I think it's a nuanced argument, but we should have it. I think the Democrats are screwing up by proposing, even using the term 70%, we should go back to a super tax. I don't think that's a win a Super tax. Don't think that's... Whether it's right or wrong, it's not a winnable Yeah. Argument. You can see that as Republicans now.
Kara Swisher · 25:45
Yeah. They can twist it because that's what they do for a living.
Scott Galloway · 25:47
They'll just put the number 70 on the screen and go, okay. Your choice. Is this what you want? You want 70% tax rate.
Kara Swisher · 25:53
Alright. We're gonna get to predictions how we get to run out. We're not gonna even talk about Roger Stone's back tattoo of Richard Nixon. I just didn't wanna go there at all, that guy. I just want him in jail.
Scott Galloway · 26:00
That's all they want. Gangster, though. That causes some conversation.
Kara Swisher · 26:03
He's such a weird. I'm sorry. He needs to just go tattoo. I think that's
Scott Galloway · 26:07
actually pretty... That's pretty cool.
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 26:08
He needs to go wherever Cato Caelin's gone. That's where he needs to go. Anyway, alright. Scott, you... Someone on Twitter called you clairvoyant with your predictions. But last week, I predicted I'd never buy a new car. And later that day, it was announced that Apple laid off, 200 employees in their project Titan division, which is working on autonomous cars. So cars are over. I get a little credit for predictions. No. I actually don't. I think there's gonna be autonomous cars, and I'm gonna be in But you were, you were predicting, that that the that the government would reopen. Now I need some more predictions about the national emergency, etcetera, etcetera. So go for it. Let's hear your predictions on this. And and you can take a run around, like a big cheering run around the the whatever you run around when you cheer.
Scott Galloway · 26:50
You're so jealous of the big dog's prediction. I just have one word.
Kara Swisher · 26:53
You call yourself a big dog?
Scott Galloway · 26:54
Come on. Who called it who called it, Kara? Friday morning, we said you announced
Kara Swisher · 27:00
that was right. But go ahead. Went in. Okay.
Scott Galloway · 27:16
Gonna just rock it up in the next three months. Be clear, bad for the bad for our democracy, bad for the planet. But this is... This stock and this company have a supernova business model. I think it's up 13% today.
Kara Swisher · 27:30
Mhmm.
Scott Galloway · 27:30
And I think it's just it's just getting started. And it's dangerous to make stock predictions, but... So I won't make a stock prediction, but I think the the underlying business results of Facebook are just incredible. Amazon reports. Amazon comes out tonight. Look for Amazon Media Group to all of a sudden be the third player in the Facebook, Google duopoly.
Kara Swisher · 27:50
Right. With advertising.
Scott Galloway · 27:50
Fastest growing media company in the world, over a billion dollars.
Kara Swisher · 27:54
Advertising. You know? That's true. Alright. So that's your prediction. Alright. Any... And anything else about the next government shutdown? Do you wanna, like, go there? Is there gonna be one?
Scott Galloway · 28:03
It won't happen, Kara. There's no way there's no way either party wants to go there again because I think if if Trump they test. If we went to another shutdown, people would just move to, okay. Let's vote them all out. And the one thing that scares all of them is the notion of not being reelected. So, no, the government won't be shut.
Kara Swisher · 28:18
So what about the national emergency? Are they gonna declare it?
Scott Galloway · 28:22
You know what? I I I don't have a viewpoint. What's your view?
Kara Swisher · 28:25
I don't know. He'll probably try to declare it, then it'll go to... It'll never happen. You know what I mean? Like, the lawyers will go to a town, and it'll go on, and then either there's not gonna be an office, or he's not gonna control either the House or the Senate. Something like that. I think he's he's kind of You know, he's He's never getting that wall. And Mexico's definitely not paying
Scott Galloway · 28:42
for negotiating. Yeah. What is it? Sun Tzu. In terms of negotiating, you don't wanna... Unless you give your your competitor absolutely no out. If you give them no out, you... What you're basically just saying, I'm gonna slaughter you. And I think the Democrats and Pelosi have won. And I think for them to give a little bit, whatever that little bit might look like, such that the Republicans and specifically POTUS can sort of declare victory or at least not be totally ashamed.
Kara Swisher · 29:07
He's... They're never gonna give him the fight. They'll give him some drones, a bunch of people.
Scott Galloway · 29:11
They'll give him something.
Kara Swisher · 29:12
Yeah. But he's got... He wants that wall. He's obsessed with the wall. He's got Anne Coulter on his back, you know, yelling him about that. And he seems to respond to what I've
Scott Galloway · 29:19
talked about where Cato Caelin goes. Why do why do we even use the word Anne Coulter? Like, what qualifies her for us to care?
Kara Swisher · 29:26
Because she has the... You know, I was at a dinner party, and someone said this, and someone else correctly said because the president listens to her, he happens to be the president The United States. So there you have it. You know?
Scott Galloway · 29:36
What do you think is gonna happen with a national emergency?
Kara Swisher · 29:38
I think he's gonna try to declare it. I do. He likes the idea
Scott Galloway · 29:42
of declare it.
Kara Swisher · 29:43
He's like... It's a little Mussolini move, and he'll do it, and then he'll go nowhere. I think eventually he'll end up indicted somehow. I just do. Just all... He's a sloppy criminal. So I don't know. That's where I see it.
Scott Galloway · 29:55
Yeah. The Southern District.
Kara Swisher · 29:57
Except he's a sloppy one. Like, I think about all these other... You just eventually... You run out of tricks.
Scott Galloway · 30:03
Well, when everyone around you has an ankle and and, you an ankle monitor, it's not a good sign. Yeah. But have you seen... Have you... You have two teenage sons. Have you seen honey badger just don't care that video about honey badgers?
Kara Swisher · 30:14
Of course.
Scott Galloway · 30:15
Yeah. Honey badger don't care. Honey badger don't give a shit. It just takes what it wants. Whenever it's hungry, just... Oh, and it So I think the new honey badger is the Southern District. I just don't think they care. I think they're going after the guy. It's like Southern... He's the president. This is... These aren't hard crimes. It's like Southern District just don't care. Yeah.
Kara Swisher · 30:32
They don't care.
Scott Galloway · 30:33
They are coming for him.
Kara Swisher · 30:34
They don't care.
Scott Galloway · 30:34
Yeah. I think that... I think we're gonna hear that... Those two words, Southern District, a lot over the next twelve months.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 30:39
To see what happens with his tax tax... His taxes when they come... When they finally reveal them, which I think eventually will will out itself. But we'll see. We'll see. He's always also shown himself to, like, get out of things, get out of of jams. So we'll see. We'll see if he can keep getting out. I think you eventually do not get out of jams, no matter how much.
Scott Galloway · 30:58
You know how he gets reelected, Daryl? No. How? Well, this is, this this should be another lose. I think the the politically correct beliefs that went after Tom Brokaw for his comments Yeah. Which I thought were wrong. But I thought the other journalists on Meet the Press handled it really well and basically said, no. You're wrong. You know, he had said
Kara Swisher · 31:17
I I
Scott Galloway · 31:17
essentially that the Latino community needed to have a conversation around assimilating better, which was a wrong... Which is just factually wrong. Mhmm. But the level... The the the level of hate that came out against him on Twitter, forcing him to apologize, I feel as if we're at a point where people are so sick of this indignance on both sides that the way Donald Trump gets elected is he says... He basically runs on a campaign of, you know, screw you, Snowflake. Yeah. And I think we have to be better about about being a little bit more generous with people and saying, okay. Let's have the conversation, and you might be wrong. But the the... Just the response. Again, we talked about this last week with some of the stuff that
Kara Swisher · 31:57
Yep.
Scott Galloway · 31:57
Between you and Fox. This gotcha culture really hurts. I think it
Kara Swisher · 32:02
hurts said he our started it. The That's thing is he started I do think people are... My... All my Trumpy relatives, I'm going to see some Trumpy people this weekend. They are tired of him. It's like the show. I watched that show for years. Again, I'm the only person who's watched every episode of the apprentice. And I got tired of it after a while. I think the show gets boring, and it gets ridiculous. And it... The stuff that you liked about it gets tiresome. I think tiresome ratings is gonna take him down. That's what's gonna happen. People are sick of it. And I know I can see my Trumpy relatives already being like, oh,
Scott Galloway · 32:31
shut up
Kara Swisher · 32:32
kind of stuff. So that's what I think. That... That's a
Scott Galloway · 32:35
huge distinction.
Kara Swisher · 32:35
Sick of it. They're not just... It's just like, oh, shut the hell up. Like, that's exactly what they're they're like. They don't wanna hear it. They don't even wanna defend it saying, oh, it's just him. They're just like, oh god. Stop talking. Go away. I think that's that's one of the things that I think. And if the Democrats have a
Scott Galloway · 32:48
a And who is Kara Swisher who is Kara Swisher supporting for president, or who do you like out of the gates? Did you see... By the way, did you see Kamala Harris' talk?
Kara Swisher · 32:56
Harris. Yeah. I like her. I thought she did a great job. I thought she was great on the CNN thing. I think she's gotten very appealing. I've interviewed her many times. Strong. And I thought she's she's improved drastically in her interview style, I have to say, because I... She was a little flat when I interviewed her. So I think she's... If she's... She plays it right, she's she's, very appealing in lots of ways.
Scott Galloway · 33:16
Well, so who do you like? Her. Does Harris wish her like?
Kara Swisher · 33:19
I like Kamala Harris. Really? I do. Do. Do. I like, I like all the women. I like, Amy Klobucher. I I I have hopes for her. We'll see. It's one of them.
Scott Galloway · 33:29
One of been a fan of senator Klobucher.
Kara Swisher · 33:31
I think it is time to elect a lady. I just... I know I don't like Beto, as you know. I'm not a Beto fan.
Scott Galloway · 33:38
You don't like Beto?
Kara Swisher · 33:40
Stop it.
Scott Galloway · 33:41
Stop it. Can you not like Beidou?
Kara Swisher · 33:42
Because he's a man child.
Scott Galloway · 33:43
Oh, he's outstanding.
Kara Swisher · 33:44
No. He's not. He's not. Oh my god. Women are Karen. Don't agree. Well, And not women. A lot of women like him. What am I talking about? Anyway, we will go on to this.
Scott Galloway · 33:54
I don't Beato at South by Southwest. Uh-huh. We would slay it.
Kara Swisher · 33:57
Oh my god.
Scott Galloway · 33:58
Oh my gosh. Little Tex Mex.
Kara Swisher · 34:01
He's like every boyfriend that made me a lesbian. I don't know what else to say. He's just like the boyfriend.
Scott Galloway · 34:06
Every boyfriend that made you
Kara Swisher · 34:07
a lesbian?
Scott Galloway · 34:08
Oh, this is getting better. Can we go another
Kara Swisher · 34:10
half hour? We're stopping. Okay, Scott. Let's see. Oh
Scott Galloway · 34:13
my gosh.
Kara Swisher · 34:14
Let's... I'm looking forward to seeing what next week brings. Rebecca Sinanis produces a show. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Thanks also to Eric Johnson. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week with more of a breakdown of all things tech and business and whatever screwed up thing Facebook manages to pull in this... In the next seven days. If you like what you heard, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. Bye, Scott. I'll see you soon.
Scott Galloway · 34:39
Stay warm, Kara.
