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Kara Swisher · 12:33
Thanks to the sponsor of our show, QuickBooks, for Nat's story. Learn more at quickbooks.com. That's quickbooks.com. Now back to our show. Alright, Scott. What's up? What's next?
Scott Galloway · 12:44
So let's try something out. The midterms are over, but can we come up with an assessment of how fake news... How did social media do? How... Were we influenced? What what happened here? What's your view?
Kara Swisher · 12:55
Well, it's interesting. I was just talking about this with... I was just talking to WNYC in New York about this. I think that they're trying... They're starting to clean it up, obviously. They keep announcing how many... Like, I took off 30 accounts, whatever. This is a cockroach problem. Right? This is this is gonna be an ongoing problem. It's not gonna be something they've just cleaned up. And so I think what's... We... We've gotta do is as these... The stories die down, like the Russia story or whatever, we've gotta really hold these companies' feet to the fire on persistently making it a cleaner and cleaner place. And and sort of... It reminds me... I was trying to give an analogy, but it's like they're chemical companies that are dumping stuff into the river. They've to clean it up now, and they've to figure out a way. Now, look. There's been some damage. There's been some poisonings. But they've got to clean it up now and figure out a way to to do what they do and grow how they want to grow without continually, continually doing this. So every time they make an announcement, they call me. I don't care. I was like, this is... It should be your job. It's like saying The New York Times should spell the word and right. Just... I feel like we've gotta make it their jobs and make sure they realize that that's what they need to do.
Scott Galloway · 13:57
So so let's move to the how, and I wanna propose an idea, you tell me why it would or wouldn't work. Alright. So I'm I'm fascinated with this concept concept of identity.
Kara Swisher · 14:05
Mhmm.
Scott Galloway · 14:05
And I'm in Los Angeles right now, and everyone is just so friendly in the Starbucks line. And then in the moment there's a little bit of anonymity and you're in your car, there's road rage everywhere. And then take that times 10 when you can invent a fake identity or a 100 of them on Twitter or YouTube and there's not only a lack of civility, there's people willing to engage in things that that are, you know, unthinkable and damaging to the to the fabric of our society. What... Why wouldn't we demand or legislate that when people go online Mhmm. In on formats that have shown themselves to be very powerful, influence elections, suppress voter turnout, that you have to have an identity and be who you say you are.
Kara Swisher · 14:45
Yeah. Yeah. I I think that's critical. I think being anonymous makes sense in some cases in some countries. That's the problem in in being able to protect yourself in countries that are autocratic. And so I think it's a big question, but in other countries, it's not the case. And I always think that being anonymous... And these bots, it drives me crazy that they haven't been able to handle these bots because these bots gin up trouble, and then humans get involved with them. And so to me, the bottom... The the the lowest bar is gonna be have to get rid of bots and to make these... A lot of this advertising transparent. And that... It starts with that and then may... And get rid of fake accounts. Get rid of fake accounts and make sure everybody who has an account is a person. Whether it's a good person or not, that's that's gonna be harder to decide. But make sure they are actually a person. And I think that's the... I've always thought anonymous was always a problem anywhere you go because people act badly.
Scott Galloway · 15:35
So the the people... I've I've heard smart Internet analysts say that if that was... If any sort of identity mandate was actually put in place, that Twitter would basically go out of business. Mhmm. That you have something between a third and two thirds of all Twitter traffic that they advertise to justify their, you know, their entire ad business or their ad model would literally just go away.
Kara Swisher · 15:58
The two thirds of
Scott Galloway · 15:58
it is bot driven and noise.
Kara Swisher · 16:00
Yep. Yep. That's the problem. That's... They don't wanna show how exactly how unpopular they actually are. You know what I mean? I think that's with a lot of things. And, you know, again, these companies would be better off creating a better service. I don't get why they they wanna have, you know, a shitty experience for people. I don't... I... You know, that's the problem because some of it's so wonderful. I mean, I've had such a nice interesting time on Twitter with this election, reading people, having opinions. It had... It has a goodness to it that always gets superseded by the badness. And so it's really... To me, it's really... It should be a business problem that they should recognize that. So I don't know.
Scott Galloway · 16:33
Yeah. It's... So so I'm gonna put my tinfoil hat and come across as a conspiracy theorist. But I write a lot about I write a lot about politics, and and I haven't... You know, I've been very critical in certain instances about the GRU in Russia. And whenever I'm critical about Russian activity, I immediately get comments saying, Scott, love your stuff, but you gotta get off the Russia bandwagon. And I started noticing that same sentence structure, same theme across different areas where I post my content from different sources and different identities. And now I generally believe that if I were an economy one fifteenth the size of The US and I wanted to wreak havoc or promote my agenda, I would identify a thousand people of influence or in my case, know, a million people of influence and set these troll farms loose on them. And I now believe that the that there are bots and or bad actors going after almost anyone and responding and and putting up content, and they're not who they say they are. Does that sound... Am I paranoid? Which doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong.
Kara Swisher · 17:38
But do you think this is happening? No. I think I think, yes. I mean, broadly, yes. These are these are well orchestrated campaigns by different people. And the thing that you have to realize is they don't care what side they're on. Right? That's the thing. They'll go after Samantha Beath. They'll go after Roseanne Barr. They'll go after what I think is gonna happen is when they start going after... And they are starting to do as companies and affecting, like, Disney or... It's happened already to NVIDIA, and it's happened. Like, when they start to really... Especially with video manipulation and things like that, you know, you ain't seen nothing yet. It's not gonna be a tweet. It's gonna serious manipulation, a video, of of other kinds of things. And I think we're just at the beginning of that for sure. But, you know, it's gonna be a great future for us, Scott. That's where it's going. I'm gonna I'm gonna down mood today on on the Internet because I think
Scott Galloway · 18:23
they I was have wondering how you were doing. I was trying to think of something to cheer you up, and I couldn't I
Kara Swisher · 18:27
couldn't think of anything. What? I mean, LA? Scott Walker lost. I'm good with that. I feel good about that. It would have been nice to see Ted Cruz
Scott Galloway · 18:34
good.... Lost.
Kara Swisher · 18:35
Yeah. Oh, yeah. But I... Wait. Did did that... Devin Nunes go, or is he still there to drive us crazy?
Scott Galloway · 18:40
Nunes? I don't think so. I think he's in a district. I think he... It is... Think he represents his district pretty well, actually.
Kara Swisher · 18:47
Alright. Well...
Scott Galloway · 18:47
Honest answer is I don't know how
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 18:48
Oh, good. He's not head of the committee anymore. Goodbye, Devin. You dumb. Like, he's the worst. He's the person who uses tech for bad. There's someone I could... Would really like to to... Maybe I'll interview him, and let's see how that goes. Anyway, last thing. We have predictions, but we're gonna contextualize it too. So we we always end the show on a prediction. And and give us a prediction. Let's let's do a prediction. You have one. Correct? You have one to to bring to us? Because you were good on the headquarters. You were good on... You've been good on a couple of predictions. You used to... Casper has still not been sold, but otherwise, you've been pretty good on
Scott Galloway · 19:21
Oh, that hurts. Casper absolutely I think was right. So this is more macro, but I think the consumer world is gonna distill to a small number of what I call recurring revenue bundles. And similar to what what Amazon has done with Prime, you're gonna see some kind of mega brands, a Nike or a Walmart Mhmm. Decide, okay, I'm in charge of all of your... Not only your shoes, but your fitness and maybe even your health care. You can get a knee replacement from a Nike endorsed orthopedic surgeon, you could stay at a hotel that figures out a way to get you breakfast. It's not terribly unhealthy for you that has a gym that is Nike approved. How
Kara Swisher · 19:57
did you come up with this scheme? Is this your next book?
Scott Galloway · 20:00
This is what I do. This is how I fake making a living.
Kara Swisher · 20:02
I just called it a scheme. That wasn't really nice, but it it is a scheme.
Scott Galloway · 20:05
Yeah. No, but I think recurring revenue bundles are gonna be the next If big you look at a company that makes more than 10 or $20,000,000,000 or creates more than 10 or $20,000,000,000
Kara Swisher · 20:14
Right.
Scott Galloway · 20:14
In market value over the twelve month period, you're going to there... It's going to be an equivalent or a mimic of what Prime
Kara Swisher · 20:22
is to Amazon is person or you're a this person.
Scott Galloway · 20:25
100%. 100%. Places you might not think. Apple might say we have a watch picking up on your health patterns. Kara, you would love Yeah. I'm gonna you. Relationship with Lululemon. And we... You're gonna let us know where you are, we're gonna deliver stuff to you and make your life easier around I'm
Kara Swisher · 20:40
gonna say no
Scott Galloway · 20:40
to this. And fitness.
Kara Swisher · 20:41
I'm gonna give you a big fat no on this. I don't think they're gonna get
Scott Galloway · 20:43
in this. You don't buy it.
Kara Swisher · 20:44
They don't buy it. I don't buy it at any way. I don't think Apple has any... I don't think they have any expertise to do this, and I don't think they have any interest in doing it. So I don't think they will. I think they're gonna sell you a phone. That's what they're gonna do. And people are gonna stick to their knitting, as I like
Scott Galloway · 20:55
to They've all gotta get into recurring... And by the way,
Kara Swisher · 20:57
the They... May want them to, but they're not gonna do that. Apple's not gonna get me Lululemon. By the way, my son wears Lululemon, FYI. He likes their shorts.
Scott Galloway · 21:04
Every company... This is the key. Every company has to enter monogamous relationships. Right now, they're dating, which is expensive and hard. They have to enter
Kara Swisher · 21:11
monogamous relationships with consumers. They can't be promiscuous.
Scott Galloway · 21:15
That's a 100%. Think about the... What... What's happened with airlines where it's all distilled down to a small number of networks. Like, I'm flying Air France. It's an inferior airline, but I am in this monogamous relationship with SkyTeam because I've fallen in love with Delta because I'm, you know, I'm flighted. I fly Delta a lot. So now I do this stupid... I'm in this relationship with SkyTeam that I can't get out of. Mhmm. And that's what's gonna happen. It's gonna be a series of four or five small networks. One for your media, one for your apparel, one for your travel, one for your health. Mhmm. And it's gonna be a race to see what brand can be that Alright.
Kara Swisher · 21:46
That bring
Scott Galloway · 21:47
you that bundle.
Kara Swisher · 21:48
Ridiculous, Scott. I think it'll just be Amazon is just a store.
Scott Galloway · 21:52
Don't know your teenage boys too much. Ridonkulous.
Kara Swisher · 21:54
He's not. He's very smart.
Scott Galloway · 21:56
That's a good one. So my prediction, a bold prediction around recurring revenue.
Kara Swisher · 22:00
I think Amazon is it. And maybe
Scott Galloway · 22:02
prediction is I'm wrong.
Kara Swisher · 22:03
Because Google could have done it. That's ridiculous. Google could have... Any of these companies could... I don't want a relation with Google when I'm getting my lunch or Nike. I want shoes from Nike. I don't want my lunch from Nike. Oh, my Nike lunch has arrived. It's delicious. It involves carrots.
Scott Galloway · 22:16
You want you wouldn't want Emirates to plan all your travel?
Kara Swisher · 22:19
No. I wouldn't want Emirates because you know what? Since I've been insulting the Saudis and everybody else over there so much and they're dirty money, I think I would not wanna fly on their airlines because Would
Scott Galloway · 22:28
you want Amazon to give you and your family your health insurance?
Kara Swisher · 22:31
No. No. But I'll tell you, here's where I do... Here's where your redonkulous idea does work. Say, your Airbnb, I do trust them on experiences. They can do adjacent things, hotels and airlines. I could see that relationship becoming a little more serious. I would trust them because I trust them on their Airbnb homes, so I could see that. If it's adjacent. If it's adjacent, Scott, I would do it. Otherwise, no. Thank you.
Scott Galloway · 22:56
Yeah. So Airbnb is absolutely one of them. Airbnb could move into all sorts
Kara Swisher · 23:00
of traveling to kind
Scott Galloway · 23:02
of take
Kara Swisher · 23:02
you out world. Suddenly wants to buy me shoes, no. Thank you. That's all I'm saying.
Scott Galloway · 23:07
Yeah. But think about how many places I could go. Airbnb... It's either gonna be Airbnb or Expedia or another... The Four Seasons is another kind of brand that could probably come up with a recurring revenue
Kara Swisher · 23:14
Four Seasons. Is that where you stay, Scott? Is that where you stay? Four Seasons? Do you know what Four that's Seasons
Scott Galloway · 23:19
an interesting point.
Kara Swisher · 23:20
Oh, you step into going in.
Scott Galloway · 23:22
The Four Seasons of Ritz Carlton, I used to always stay at those two brands. One, because I do a decent job, and two, whenever I travel someone else is paying usually. Interesting. But I've stopped staying at these brands, and it represents kind of the end of the brand era, because I no longer need to defer to the shorthand of the brand, and I can go on my social graph, or these weapons of diligence, TripAdvisor, Google, and I can find out that the Waldorf, an aging brand that I would never associate with in LA is actually the cool new hotel and that's where I'm... That's where I'll stay. So you're seeing at least in in travel kind of new and innovative is Perhaps. Is the bomb, and brand is declining importance. So kind of the sun has passed midday on brand.
Kara Swisher · 23:58
Interesting. Interesting. You know what Four Seasons is? Holiday Inn for rich people. Anyway, because they're all the same. Hit me where you go. Thank you. That is my thought.
Scott Galloway · 24:05
Actually, I don't know. There's huge variance in how the Holiday Inn in Austin or Chicago, pretty weak. I'm sorry. The Four Seasons in Austin or Chicago, pretty weak. The Four Seasons in Toronto
Kara Swisher · 24:15
Alright, Scott. Or in Boot House. Your hotel recommendations right now. Speaking with I travel to hotels in San Francisco. There's strikes going on because of robots delivering food and one of the reasons. Anyway
Scott Galloway · 24:26
Although, speaking of robots, I just rented a car from Hertz, and I'm I'm that, in fact, Uber may be worth a $120,000,000,000, and we should replace every individual with robots. Have you rented a car recently?
Kara Swisher · 24:38
Yes. I do it all the time, Kevin.
Scott Galloway · 24:40
I think it's an awful experience.
Kara Swisher · 24:41
I think it's awful experience at Hertz. You're right. You're right. It's an awful experience. It is. But it's... You're right. That's a very good thing that needs to be reflected. But we're gonna discuss that another week because I have things to do. I have things to do.
— Predictions segment ends —
Scott Galloway · 24:52
I've gotta go watch the Trump conference for a while. What's the most interesting thing you're doing this week?
Kara Swisher · 24:57
This week? Oh, I'm gonna be interviewing Marc Benioff, but I can't tell you for who or why. It's a big it's a big interview. It's gonna be on TV. So Marc Benioff.
Scott Galloway · 25:06
And you're a big fan of Marc's.
Kara Swisher · 25:07
Yes. I am. And it's gonna be at the top of Salesforce Tower. That's all I'm gonna say. I'm gonna try to, I'm gonna try to helicopter in and then jump from the helicopter, take a rope down the the building, and then then crash through the window and then start the interview. What do think?
Scott Galloway · 25:20
Oh, I... Better yet, I think they should... He should build like a terrace, and you should get... Have like a Mussolini speech.
Kara Swisher · 25:25
Yeah. That's something like that. Something like... Something something goes
Scott Galloway · 25:28
the entire city.
Kara Swisher · 25:29
Would any
Scott Galloway · 25:29
Address the entire city.
Kara Swisher · 25:30
For audience. Anyway, Scott, I've got things to do.
Scott Galloway · 25:34
Good stuff, Kara.
Kara Swisher · 25:35
Alright. Good. Looking forward to talking next week, by the way. If have any questions for us or stuff you'd like to hear or cover on this podcast, shoot us an email, pivot@VoxMedia.com.
Scott Galloway · 25:45
Our show is produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Thanks also to Eric Johnson, and thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. Join us next week for more breakdown on all things tech and business. If you like what you heard, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening.
Kara Swisher · 26:19
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