Guest · 47:25
That you have instantly throw them away. Maybe they go, oops. I I didn't... I will never do that again. I'm not... Again, I'm not talking about any particular person. But I'm saying that, like, if people get checked more often, you're gonna get less toxic behavior. Or you're gonna get people go, I shouldn't be in this business because I'm constantly getting checked. Or you're have the business go, you aren't learning anything. You have to get out of here. And the problem is is that we don't... We still don't live in a society overall, but specifically in Hollywood where that's the case. I... Not there are sets that are run that way. I mean, certainly with, like, all the shows I'm on, it's like we... It's very clear, and it's very about all about your feelings, and let's talk this through and and and checking in with people and making sure that we're not putting people in uncomfortable positions. So... But it's not it's not an industry wide phenomenon.
Scott Galloway · 48:05
So come out... I think it would be impossible to approach a story like this and not have a certain set of preconceived notions about Cosby or the situation. As you learn more about it, what what surprised you or what flew in the face of what you were expecting to learn? And also, what do you think we don't understand or would surprise us about what went down?
Guest · 48:24
So I think, what would surprise everybody is the thing I think that surprised me. I think even if you believe these, the survivors, you can sort of put it in a box that is not a great box to put it in, but you can sort of go over 60 women. Cosby's a big celebrity. You know, even if I believe them, I'm just gonna file it under 61 night stands that went wrong. Mhmm. Which is bad, and it's criminal, but you're sort of putting them in sort of a a box of like these... Of a groupie box, which I... Not a word I use generally. I'm using it for this example. But when you look into the stories, you find out that a lot of these... Like, you know, there's women who were just in stores hanging out with their family. There's women who just shook his hand after a show to say good job, and how it seems like he works just as hard at his career that he clearly worked hard at as he did at sort of bringing these women in, sometimes even grooming them, flying them around the country, really, you know, sort of introducing them as his daughter in certain situations. He seems like he worked as hard... Just as hard at that as he did in his career. That's something that surprised me and I think will surprise a lot of people when you hear the stories. And I also hope people look into these stories deeper, actually, because there's a lot more than we couldn't include just for time.
Kara Swisher · 49:33
Right. Right.
Guest · 49:34
Yeah. And then the other thing I think surprised me is that, you know, when we did our first interview with Victoria Valentino, who's a survivor from the late sixties, we... I was sort of... We were all sort of nervous that this person would come in and be on edge or be capable of being triggered very easily because they were gonna come in and tell their story. And after I learned from her and all the other survivors I talked to, and I can't say this is true of all survivors, but the women I talked to aren't owned by what happened to them, aren't owned by this story. There there are more painful things in their life than this. They have processed this. What they wanna do is achieve justice for future survivors and make sure that doesn't happen again, which is why they become... The story of their activism was very surprising to me how they... How Lisa Laut Lublin and her husband, Ben, have worked to to help survivors get statute of limitations laws struck down or expanded around, rate around the country. So that they're... It's... You know, they're not they're not always a bundle of tears the way you might see them on the news when they're giving those victim impact statements at press conferences. They just... They're... Mostly, they're angry and committed to changing things.
Scott Galloway · 50:36
What's the state of play now? Like, where is he? Is there a good chance he's gonna end up back in prison? I... Someone told me he was thinking about trying to revive a comedy tour. Does the... Do prosecutors say, you know what? Let's let biology take care of this. He's gonna be dead soon. What's the state of play?
Guest · 50:50
I mean, currently, because of the statute of limitation laws that were on most of these women's... In these women's cases, I don't know that there's any who still... That their cases are still in the statute of limitations within the statute of limitations. So I don't think that there's any other unless there's other survivors who come forward with it who are in the statute
Kara Swisher · 51:07
I of
Guest · 51:08
don't know if there's anything that can happen, and he can't be tried for what happened with him and Andrew Constant again from what I understand. The state of play is I don't believe that any major promoter would send him out on a comedy tour for multiple reasons. But I also believe that there are venues around the country that would be happy to host and
Kara Swisher · 51:25
maybe depend venues. He's quite wealthy.
Scott Galloway · 51:27
What did
Guest · 51:27
you say?
Kara Swisher · 51:28
Presumably, he's quite wealthy. He could self fund. Correct?
Guest · 51:30
Yes. Yeah. I mean, he could... There's any number of ways he could do it. But I think you still have to find a venue that that wants to take your money. But, yes, I believe there are venues around the country that would host him. Because as we know, this is a divisive issue because there are a lot of people who support him. But he's also eighty eighty five years old, I think. Is that... You know? So it's... I just... Who... How many 85 year olds go out on tour? And, also, I I know that he... They talked about not going on tour for a little while because of the two civics... Because of the two cases that are against him and how that would complicate those cases.
Kara Swisher · 51:58
The two law... These are civil lawsuits and that we'll never know. That's sort of what happened to OJ in a weird way. So last question. What are you working on now? You have your show and you're on the show. What what do you wanna talk about next?
Guest · 52:09
Ironically, I'm still doing my day job, United Shades of America. I'm I'm filming an episode this week that... Those shows will be out in the spring. So it's like
Kara Swisher · 52:16
What are you focused on right now on that?
Guest · 52:18
You know, I mean, we thought we would do one season that was sort of about the pandemic, and now we're in our second season that is still in large part about the pandemic and and the response. And and what and what it's really not just the pandemic, but 2020 overall. So right now, we're about to tape an episode about sort of how how Asian Americans and media got... Many got politicized through Trump in 2020. And it's an episode... We're doing an episode about how many Asian Americans who maybe didn't feel like they would... Didn't find ways to speak out publicly about issues of racism against their community or other communities have really found their voices since Trump and and all the... And all his racism specifically aimed at, Asian people in 2020.
Kara Swisher · 52:55
Mhmm. Oh, we're all better for him. We'll see. We'll see. We're stronger at least. Anyway, we need to talk about Cosby premieres on Showtime this Sunday at 10PM. Thank you, Kamau.
Guest · 53:06
Thank you for having me. Thanks, Kamau. Thank you.
Kara Swisher · 53:08
Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
[Ad break]
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 54:45
Okay, Scott. Prediction. Give me a prediction. Prediction.
Scott Galloway · 54:49
So beginning of q two, we're gonna start to, I would say around the April or May, time frame, we're gonna start to get data Mhmm. Because Facebook's trying not to break out data around Oculus. But we're gonna get data that this thing is a giant flaming bag of shit. Oh. In the form of a headset. Think it's I already look at their ads. I'd love to see what the cost of customer acquisition is for
Kara Swisher · 55:11
the retail People like it that have it.
Scott Galloway · 55:13
Can you say more? I think there's a... I think... Well, my prediction is the following. I think Facebook will do this kind of two movement thing. They're gonna realize that it... It's not selling well, and they're gonna come up with all sorts of b to b or other commercial applications
Kara Swisher · 55:26
that they're be talking about. Magically, CEO Yeah. At Pivot MIA. But
Scott Galloway · 55:31
But you say people like it. Go ahead. People like haven't met anyone that likes it.
Kara Swisher · 55:35
I have... Everybody uses it like Supernatural. They like a bunch of things on it. A lot of people who use it like it. I was interviewing Debbie Millman, who's a designer. Her wife, Roxanne Gay, uses it a lot and loves it. Like, people who use it love it. It's an interesting situation. Have got to start using all kinds of things. All kinds. Some of the exercise, this and that. I I have got to start using it more. I hate to use Facebook products, but I shall. And I'm gonna try some of the others, but we'll see. I don't... You're right. I don't think it's gonna be huge. I don't think everyone's rushing. My kids don't have any interest in it. Like, none, zero, zip a doo. They play their video games, they like it just on a big screen, and I just don't see them drawn to it. So that doesn't mean they wouldn't like it. So I don't know. But that's an interesting prediction. I'm I'm very eager to find out what's gonna happen there.
Scott Galloway · 56:23
I just... I mean, I look at my kid, like a lot of people who are my age, you think that just because you have teenagers, have insight into the future of all
Kara Swisher · 56:30
these a little bit. But
Scott Galloway · 56:32
the half life on usage of the thing, constantly bothering. I want an Oculus. I want an Oculus. Got it.
Kara Swisher · 56:38
Don't be
Scott Galloway · 56:38
it lasted, like, about as fast as Yeah. You know, the Fitbit, just... The FuelBand, or name another wearable that's in your drawer. Yep. So I'll be very curious. I think numbers are gonna start leaking that this is not this is not... It might have a niche application. It might even, you know, have some market. But this notion that they bet the company, it feels like they kinda bet the company on this side. Well, they're buying $10,000,000,000 towards...
Kara Swisher · 57:02
Well, this metaverse. That's the whole metaverse Metaverse is Oculus. Yeah.
Scott Galloway · 57:06
It's Oculus.
Kara Swisher · 57:07
Yep. Is. I think... I just don't... Myself, I don't think they're very creative people. So I don't think... This requires enormous creativity. And so the... It's like Microsoft when it went into the phone business or... You know what I mean? Like, I was like,
Scott Galloway · 57:18
nope. Think that's fair. I think their ability to monetize teen depression has been exceptionally creative.
Kara Swisher · 57:23
Alright. Okay. I knew you'd put bull on that one. I don't think they're creative. I think this is a creative environment, and it's gonna be hard for them because they're not creative. Now, I'll I'll have a prediction for once. We had a really interesting Twitter spaces on Peloton last night, and we talked about Oculus because we were talking about all the mirror, all these different heads up displays of exercise Mhmm. The use of online exercise stuff. And and I have to say, Dan Pramek made a very good case that everything will be fine at Peloton. That it will be just fine. This CEO will will will gut it through because he he wants to run for office. I didn't know that. John Foley? Yeah. Apparently, New
Scott Galloway · 57:59
York.
Kara Swisher · 57:59
Didn't know that either. So he wants to make this a success. He might sell it, but there's no reason he has to. There's no particular. And and I have to say, I really became convinced because a lot of the people we had... I don't know, a thousand people in the thing? People love their Peloton. Love love love. And the same thing we were talking about, and they loved... You know, attacks they're getting are really interesting, and they they definitely have problems. That's not the that's not that wasn't what was said. But the kind of affection and love of the product that people have, they had 20 or 30 suggestions, all of which were good. I want more community. I want them to sell me health stuff. I want them to engage with me this way. I'd like them to... And a lot of the the complaints were like, look, their customer service has gotten shitty, but they can fix that. You know, it has gotten shitty. It wasn't shitty before, but now it is. But nobody's complaining about the thing. They love the thing, and they're willing to pay more for it. There was ideas about bringing together a lot of these, like if you have a hydro and a Peloton and a this and that, that you bring them together so you don't have to pay $50 across all of them a month, for example. There was one idea that Peloton could be buying up some of these things because everybody's stocks are depressed because of Peloton stocks being depressed. Anyway, it was interesting. I was... I I feel like that was correct. I think they'll be just fine. That is
Scott Galloway · 59:19
my Yeah. The NPS on Peloton is substantially higher than Apple or Netflix. It's got one of the highest NPS scores, net promoter scores
Kara Swisher · 59:29
of any consumer one of the potential buyers, which was interesting. Anyway, Dan was saying weird.
Scott Galloway · 59:34
I don't see that.
Kara Swisher · 59:35
I know. But but it's around. He said that the rumors are around. Anyway, I was very fascinated by this. It's... You can listen to it on Twitter, but it's... Because they now can tape these spaces. But I was sort of the the audience had some amazing creative suggestions, and I thought, oh, these are people invested in a brand. Know what would be interesting?
Scott Galloway · 59:54
And I'm serious. You should do the same thing for Oculus. Mhmm. I'd be very curious what Oculus users
Kara Swisher · 59:58
That's great idea.
Scott Galloway · 59:58
Tune into that because feel as if I don't know enough about it.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 1:00:00
Yeah. That's a great idea. Okay. Anyway, Scott, that's the fascinating show here. We had, you know, we had Hooker blindness and we had Kamau.
Scott Galloway · 1:00:09
I don't see it. I just see women who are interested in me and men.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:14
I'm gonna speak to Ando on your behalf. I'm I'm a little annoyed at him. I'm not happy that he did that, especially for George Hahn, really. I don't like George Hahn being being disrespected. That's my feeling.
Scott Galloway · 1:00:26
He wasn't disrespected. I'm telling you. He's the No. No. He's the hot one. He gets to cancel
Kara Swisher · 1:00:31
last minute. Said, hey. I've gotta cancel. I'm like, no. Why? He's so important. I would just be so aggressive. Anyway, nonetheless, this is a great show. We'll be back on Tuesday for more. As always, there's so much news happening. It's gonna be really great, and we're It
Scott Galloway · 1:00:44
keeps coming. It's like the mail. It just keeps on coming.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:47
Very excited. A lot of these things we're talking about are gonna be discussed at Pivot MIA. Anyway, please read us out, Scott.
Scott Galloway · 1:00:54
Today's show is produced by Lara Naaman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertaught engineered this episode. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or, frankly, wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like the show, please recommend it to a friend. Pivot Miami, February 14 to the sixteenth. Come to Miami. Come see some of the most interesting CEOs, some of the most interesting people, and Kara Swisher.
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