Kara Swisher · 57:44
What they need.
Scott Galloway · 57:45
Just listening to you now, you're you're... You are changing my view. And I wanna I wanna draw a distinction, and I wanna use two different environments. Let's talk about college, which has traditionally been the certification and the experience that is the widest on ramp into the middle and the upper class. Right? And in 1960, there were 12 black people at Princeton, Harvard, and Yale combined. That was a problem. The academic achievement gap between blacks and whites was double what it was between rich and poor. It made sense to have affirmative action based on race. It made sense. I believe it no longer does. 51% of Harvard's freshman class is nonwhite. What I think your argument is, we're not there yet in venture capital. We're not at the point. The numbers are still so skewed in favor of the patriarchy that we still do need race based affirmative action. So I think my go to was around what I know best, which is higher ed. But I think the point you're making is that we're still not there yet, and we need race based affirmative action. The way you would probably get there, I think, is the only way to jump start this stuff is with when a black woman led business goes public and creates billions of dollars of shareholder value That's
Kara Swisher · 59:01
what they say.
Scott Galloway · 59:01
People get over it. Now until then, I think what you could do is have state or federal sponsored legislation that provides what I'll call credits for investing in... I mean, here's the problem, though. When I was at Morgan Stanley, the syndicates would be picked for an IPO, and there'd be minority. They'd demand... The state of California would demand minority and women owned business investment banks in the syndicate. So we'd pick one or two. They did nothing. And and the people who ran the firm went to Harvard, and they happened to be, you know, women or people of color. And it was like, okay. All we're doing is reshuffling the elites here. This money isn't getting to... I wanna acknowledge your point. I'm... I have this reflex, gag reflex, or this reflex memory around what's happened in education, and I think your point is we still have a long way to go before we can get
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Kara Swisher · 59:50
answer, Scott. I don't honestly know. I just know that these white guys get to fail all the fucking time, and the women do not get to fail. There's no failure for them. And these men come up with, like, look at Shane Smith. Look. He's back. Give me a fucking break. He lost so much money for everyone but himself, but he gets to come back. Like, are you kidding me? Like, that's what it that's what it it looks like. If you were a black woman and you failed a company, that's the end of your entire process. That's it. That's all you get.
Scott Galloway · 1:00:18
That's fair. That's
Kara Swisher · 1:00:19
fair. And I think that's what it is. But, you know, Shane Smith, oh, he's so good at what he does. Like, come on. Adam Neumann. Come on, Adam. How many, bad days do you foist upon the world and and benefit from them? I just I just... It's an... I don't know the answer, Scott. I don't know the answer.
Scott Galloway · 1:00:39
I wanna acknowledge your point and agree with you that I don't know the answer.
Kara Swisher · 1:00:43
We don't know the answer, Tamara. So sorry. I I think this is gonna... I think this group is gonna lose. I think they are. I think this guy is very uncanny. What about Melinda Gates do it, focusing all this money on women businesses? Do you think she... They'll go after her? She can do what she wants. Right? Or can't she? Right? It's an interesting thing.
Scott Galloway · 1:01:05
Question. But but what she also did, she also gave $20,000,000 to the American Institute for Boys and Men. Yeah. And it strikes me it's gonna be difficult to tell people, what they can do or not do with philanthropy. I I don't know. I Some of it's a definitely money. That's a really fair point. But I think she I think she inoculates herself by saying it's not a condition, that she's gonna focus on a community, but it's not a condition of of her philanthropy. Because, like
Kara Swisher · 1:01:37
I said, she's talk about it.
Scott Galloway · 1:01:39
It's the language. I don't know. But, I mean, the the argument here, the logic is really sound that he's making. And that is we need to move to a post racial society. And at some point, we need to acknowledge that when you're advantaging... I mean, here's where we are with universities. And this is why I think DEI should be disassembled in universities. People of color
Kara Swisher · 1:02:05
have endured disassembled, Scott.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:07
Go ahead. I know. And I think it should. And by the way, it's a huge apparatus with a lot of overpaid people that, in my opinion, hold on to their jobs and have absolutely no accountability to anybody anyways and are protected because you're called names if you ever question their departments.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:21
Because there's no old white men doing that. But go ahead. Keep going. How big think
Scott Galloway · 1:02:25
the Harvard how much money do think Harvard spends on DEI? My question
Kara Swisher · 1:02:28
would be,
Scott Galloway · 1:02:29
what if they expanded their freshman seats to let in more black kids? Wouldn't that be more DEI?
Kara Swisher · 1:02:34
There's so many shitty old white man professors that... Where I went to school, but go ahead. Go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:39
Okay. But that was back in the middle ages.
Kara Swisher · 1:02:41
So Alright. Sure.
Scott Galloway · 1:02:42
Anyways, what you're saying, and I agree with you, is we don't have that issue yet in venture capital. I do think we have that issue on campus. I think... I did that podcast with those two very impressive women from Harvard, and they were talking about how wonderful the DEI department is. I'm like, take all of that money, expand your freshman class, and let in more trans kids. Let in more black kids. That's DEI, not reshuffling the elites.
Kara Swisher · 1:03:06
Well, that's a good point. We have to get out of this. A very interesting, question. Thank you so much. It'll interesting to see where this goes, but we both probably think, we'll lose. If you got a question of your own you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to n y mag dot com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. You better have a good one.
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— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 1:05:22
Okay, Scott. Let's hear your fantastic prediction.
Scott Galloway · 1:05:26
Just put a lot of pressure on me. Don't like this. Okay. So my prediction in one word is Chicago exclamation point. The Democratic convention in Chicago, I think, is gonna make a lot of news. I think one of several things might happen. One, I think the GRU and the CCP both wanna sow incredible division on our society and have the ultimate propaganda tool, at least the CCP does with TikTok. I think Russia has become exceptionally good, especially the GRU at weaponizing troll farms in an amoral, porous social media environment. I think there's gonna be all kinds of misinformation and noise around the Chicago convention. In addition, some of the protests we've seen, some of them have legitimate concerns. Some of it is being funded, in my opinion, by outside entities. In addition, if president Biden Biden, let me just say the quiet part out loud, gets a cold and, for whatever reason, can't be on stage one night, there's gonna be all sorts of speculation. I I just think we are setting ourselves up in Chicago in terms of scenario planning. Scenario planning is you look at what are a reasonable number of outcomes and then what what prediction or what scenario likely fits across all of them. My prediction is the following. The Chicago Democratic Convention makes a lot of news.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:42
Okay. I'm gonna take the opposite side. I think it's gonna be one of these things we're gonna, like, pay, oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. And then nothing's gonna happen.
Scott Galloway · 1:06:49
That that might... Fair enough.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:51
That's right. I'll take because they're they're o knowing it quite a bit.
Scott Galloway · 1:06:53
Everyone's worried.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:55
You know, I think it's gonna be one of these things where everyone's gonna be like... It's sort of like the debate. Everyone's gonna be like, hold on to your seat. Like, right? You're waiting for one of them to do something crazy on that debate stage. I don't think anyone feels comfortable because who knows what Trump's gonna do. Right? Can he be disciplined? Probably not. He'll probably say something nutty. Like, I'm gonna jail you with Joe Biden, and Joe Biden's, like, gonna go, come on, man. Like, that's probably where it's going. So then nobody knows where this debate's going. So everyone's gonna be
Scott Galloway · 1:07:23
That's not the fear.
Kara Swisher · 1:07:23
I may not I may not watch it because I I don't know which one is gonna have a problem. You what
Scott Galloway · 1:07:28
I mean? That's not that's not the fear. If Trump does something really stupid or irrational,
Kara Swisher · 1:07:33
that's cares.
Scott Galloway · 1:07:35
Hurt him as much as I... The fear, Kara, is that Biden has a McConnell moment. And Yeah. That's the fear.
Kara Swisher · 1:07:43
That's the fear. Doesn't and Trump doesn't, they'll be like, yeah. Well, whatever. His... The the bar is so low right now for Biden. So in that way, Trump... Seeing Trump, like, unfettered is gonna be... People are, you know, are gonna be like, oh god. Look at that guy. Like, time... So we'll see we'll see how that goes. But nonetheless, I think I'm gonna take the opposite. I think nothing's gonna happen at this thing. I think they will have the security. I think there'll be rings of security around the entire thing, and they No tents. And and the governor will... Who is a democrat, will keep it keep it tight. He's a he's a keep it tight kinda governor.
Scott Galloway · 1:08:17
A two or 3% chance he comes out of the convention as the nominee, Kara.
Kara Swisher · 1:08:20
That's true.
Scott Galloway · 1:08:21
True. Potentially go down here. So look. Could... What you're but what you're talking about
Kara Swisher · 1:08:25
so boring compared to what you think. But go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 1:08:27
What what you're talking about is a is a distinct phenomena, and that is anxiety. A lot of us have... For the first forty years of my life, I didn't have enough anxiety. I was literally sleepwalking through life. I almost got kicked out of UCLA three times, didn't care. Almost got fired from Morgan Stanley, didn't care. I just didn't, you know, took to the... Took to Sunset Boulevard, fucked up in high school, didn't care. And then from 40 to 50, I had the perfect amount of anxiety. And now from 50 on, I fucking worry about everything. And anxiety anxiety is a survival mechanism, because you are supposed to be worried that when you see the reeds flowing in the wind, that it's not the wind. It's a lion that could eat you behind. Because occasionally, it is a lion. And that when you go to a watering hole, you are supposed to be anxious because it might be one of those TikTok crocodiles about to jump out. But here's the thing. Anxiety is a form of survival because the shit you are most worried about... If you're worried about every computer and every elevator and every air traffic control system... Guidance system shutting down at at... On at midnight on 01/01/2000, you start to prepare for it. And by preparing for it and being anxious about it, you reduce the likelihood it's gonna happen. The things... And this is a lesson. The things you are most anxious about are the things that are least likely to hurt or kill you. It's the shit you're not expecting.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:47
I am exactly opposite to you. I used to be a lot more anxious, and now I'm like, whatever.
Scott Galloway · 1:09:51
Who cares?
Kara Swisher · 1:09:52
I literally have shifted.
Scott Galloway · 1:09:53
That means you're maturing. I'm getting immature.
Kara Swisher · 1:09:55
And, actually, you know, I had someone who, I would say, is on their way to not being my friend anymore. And they're always like, and all the political stuff. And I used to rise to the occasion, and now I'm like, yeah. Okay. Like, I don't even listen. I don't even respond. It's just literally I've become the opposite of you. I'm like, alright.
Scott Galloway · 1:10:16
You're about everything? I think it's kids.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 1:10:18
I'm not kids also. I'm not worried about everything except my kids. Like, my safety of my kids. That's it. Anyway, we're we're very different. I have shift... I was much more anxious earlier. And, Scott, that's the show. Just a reminder,
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Kara Swisher · 1:10:30
at the Trebecca Film Festival next week, June 11 at 05:30. I'm taping a slate podcast, death, sex, and money, which are Scott's main focuses in his life with Anna Sale. You can get tickets at rebeccafilm.com/death,sex,andmoney. And, also, listen to my AOC interview. It is quite a thing. She said quite a lot of things in it, among which she she thinks Donald Trump will probably try to have her arrested. She talked a lot about progressives and the need to calm the fuck down, essentially. She talked a lot about that that whole fight with Marjorie Taylor Greene. In any case, she's a very talented politician.
Scott Galloway · 1:11:03
Very talented. Definitely a comer.
Kara Swisher · 1:11:05
Really great interview. Anyway, we'll be back on Tuesday with more pivot. Scott, read us out.
Scott Galloway · 1:11:11
Today's show was produced by Lara Nayman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd, engineering this episode. Thanks also to Gibral's Ezeverio. Nishat Karua is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at edwinemag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things pivot.
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