Pivot · Aug 16, 2019

Sharks, WeWork & Tumblr's tumble from grace

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 34:55. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Scott Galloway · 34:55 And just say okay, mean to a certain extent Amazon has done this in e commerce. You just trust Amazon. You just default is there. Now if Amazon were to go into predictive modeling and just start sending you stuff proactively or speculatively, that's what I think we're talking about. But I think there's gonna be a series of brands across our major consumer categories, travel, health, apparel and it's just gonna be one brand that says we know you better than you know you and we're just gonna start proactively sending you stuff so you don't have to make choice. So we're gonna tell you, you tell us you want to go to Africa, we'll tell you where to stay, how to get there and we'll charge you wholesale, and every year we'll just charge you one big fee, and we'll get to know each other. It's what... It's the difference between what I would call serial dating and monogamy. The most... The marketplace wants monogamy. It's a better way to run a business. So I think you're gonna see a series of monogamous recurring revenue bundle relationships emerge over Scott, the course of next Kara Swisher · 35:43 you're so deep this week. You're deep. You're not as shallow Scott Galloway · 35:46 as And I haven't even been to the dispensary yet. Talk to me in a few hours. Kara Swisher · 35:49 Alright. What's your fail? What's your fail then? Scott Galloway · 35:52 My fail is just this pump and dump culture that that I I just wonder when it's gonna end. I wonder if we were Never Kara Swisher · 35:58 never said the person who's the most human race until the human race is blown off this earth. But go ahead, go ahead. Scott Galloway · 36:03 But as we work the next tumbler, at some point does the manufacturing of hype and the nomenclature or the fraudulent nomenclature and just using the word tech 127 times in prospectus and then claiming that someone paid a valuation of 47,000,000,000 and then foisting it on the unwedding retail investor, at some point does the pump and dump culture, does somebody call bullshit on it? And so my fail is the pump and, you know, we'll see, but tumblers is such a cautionary tale and WeWork could potentially be I think the next tumbler if it manages to get out. I think you're gonna see an extraordinary destruction of value if the bankers are actually able to foist this thing on Kara Swisher · 36:45 And do think they're gonna foist it? What are the chances right now? Scott Galloway · 36:48 You know, Carol, I don't know because I thought, I didn't think, I thought Uber and Lyft, there was a chance they might not get out, and granted they're slowly but surely the air is being let out of that balloon. Those companies are off I think 20 or 30%. But look at, you know, the bankers got their money, the founders got their money, the investors got their money, and it's the guy or the gal holding shares in an ETF. Kara Swisher · 37:08 Especially heading into a recession. Yes, indeed. You're right. It's just really. We are cautioning you people, just the way there are shark cautionings on the beach where we are. There are sharks out there, you're gonna get bit, and you're gonna lie on the shore in pain and not dead. Scott Galloway · 37:22 Well, that's a nice image. Jesus Christ, what are you doing to me? That's like the last... You know what the worst thing is? Kids are running around the house in their wetsuits. Basically, they might as well be flapping their fins and asking for a I saw Kara Swisher · 37:37 seals this week, I went fishing with my kids, we caught quite a few fish, and then my son cooked them all, and we gave the carcasses to the seals as we were filleting them on the dock. Scott Galloway · 37:46 Stay away from seals, food chain, food chain. Kara Swisher · 37:48 Fisherman hate the seals here because they take all the fish. I like the seals because they're... What are Scott Galloway · 37:54 your wins and fails? Kara Swisher · 37:56 I have one that's a win and a fail, and it's Anthony Scaramucci's fight with the president. Scott Galloway · 38:00 My gosh. Go on. On. Kara Swisher · 38:02 I haven't talked to him yet. Scott Galloway · 38:03 I'm gonna Say text more? Kara Swisher · 38:04 I didn't have enough energy to text him this week. But I think, it's interesting that he's now suddenly, you know... And and this... The concept... And he and I have argued about this, is this a la carte liking and disliking of the president. It's the same thing with Steven, the the Hudson Yards do, Ross. Right? Like, he's an a la carte method of liking someone. Like, I don't agree with his racism, but I like his tax breaks. I'm like, it's not an a la carte thing. You can't pick and choose between this guy. Like, it all goes together. You have to take the sender backs. You gotta take the racist tweets. You gotta take what's obviously, you know, a declining mental situation, which I think Scaramucci quite specifically referred to, and which George Conway, also people, you know, close to those groups, are referring to, like, a continuing decline in mental facility. I mean, it's it's... They're not even being, you know, sort of, oh, he's a little bit off. It's like, he crazy, you know? So I think in that way, I kind of welcome the message. And at this... And in a fail thing, it's like, you were never our friends before. Like Right. Now you're worried and now, know, so you sort of say, ah, brave of you. And, ah, what took you so long? So that's... I think that I... I'm sort of of the double minds. And so I do wanna have a discussion with them about it because, like, what they tend to try to do is get you to dis- the the the people who oppose them when when these people sort of break out and start actually telling the truth is that they try to undercut them by saying things like, oh, well, you know, he wants a a contract. He wants he wants to be on CNN. He wants to be liked by the Libtards, whatever. I don't care. If he's telling the truth, who cares if he wants to benefit from it? And what is the real benefit? Is there a real benefit? And so I'm fascinated by if there's gonna be... He was saying that the cabinet members think this, that he's crazy and this and that. And so I'm wondering, will there be a moment when everyone goes, okay. Like, we cannot do anymore, but I don't think there is a bottom for the Republican Party with this situation. They seem to do... And now they're comfortable defending the indefensible. And so it was fascinating. I thought it was a win and a lose. I know quite how I feel about it. So that's my win and lose. Scott Galloway · 40:03 That's a great one. And you brought up the kind of the irony or the, I don't know, the inconsistency of when Cloudflare all of a sudden decided they'd had enough with HN, and you're like, well, look, we've been having this conversation for a while and all of a sudden you found religion, which was a fair point. But the mooch, there's a term to describe the mooch, and that is totally full of shit. And that is when a white supremacist ran over a woman, he was okay with that. He was talking about tax cuts. But all of a sudden, he's fed up with President Trump. You know what the mooch has no tolerance for? Being out of the media cycle. That is the only thing he gives a shit about. All And of a sudden he's popped up and decided he's had enough of the president. Well, show me anything the president has done recently that is any different than what he was doing while you were carrying his water. And the notion that all of a sudden he's found religion, no, he hasn't. He just wasn't on MSNBC enough. And when it's three months Kara Swisher · 40:56 we'll see where it goes. But people can also tell the truth at the same time they may be in it for themselves. That's what... That's my problem with all this. It's like... That's the that's the issue. I think Katherine Rampell from the Washington Post had a very good thing is that Mhmm. I think it all stemmed from an appearance on Bill Maher where he was on Bill Maher, he was defending the president actually quite handily and saying, have some disagreement. And he voiced his concerns about the racist tweets, but they were con... I'm concerned, you know, about these racist tweets. I don't like them. And what happened was Trump then reacted saying, you you you... Traitor, like, as he always does. And then and then that's where he then then by Sunday, he was like, fuck you. Like, you know, you you you know what I mean? It was like it's like an episode of Goodfellas, But... Which I feel like it is. Like, we're living in Goodfellas almost continually. And he's the, I guess, the Joe Pesci character. But it's a really... I I find it fast... And, like... But... And at the same time, I'm like, well, I kind of want these people to say this because they know. Like like... So so on on some level, at least he's saying it and the others aren't. So Scott Galloway · 41:55 What does he know? He was there eleven days. Kara Swisher · 41:57 What does he know? You know, they're all part of the same gangs. They're all... They're they're in the same gang. It's just... So I, you know, I I I welcome the truth, and at the same time, I'm like, what took you so long? I... Exactly. And I think I've had this discussion with him a million times on this Yeah. Issue. And so it's a fascinating... I I think I'll bring him back on the podcast just... And maybe I'll have you join. Maybe I'll have you join that one. No. No. Well, but the thing is, what what if someone is actually telling the truth that you just discount it? See, that's that's how the Trump group works. That's how they flood these people. So, you know, I I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm confused, And and and I don't know what to do about thinking this is what should be said. At the same time, do we like the people saying it? Sometimes we aren't... We don't get the people we want to tell the truth. So... Scott Galloway · 42:41 I think what we all need to do is to elevate our consciousness and pay $700 a day for a desk and IPA tapir. That's what we We need to Kara Swisher · 42:50 work for fourteen point two seconds, Recode was, it was fine. Scott Galloway · 42:53 They do a great job, by the way. WeWork does a Yes, fantastic Kara Swisher · 42:55 I mean, it was an inexpensive, it was like slightly better than a Kia desk and I was irritated Really? By Scott Galloway · 43:00 I think they're great. I do like what they do actually. Kara Swisher · 43:02 A number of things there. I did not spend much time there. — Predictions segment begins — Scott Galloway · 43:04 It's a great concept worth, 2 or 3,000,000,000 Any dollars predictions? Need a Oh, predictions. Kara Swisher · 43:08 You've got to get to the beach, I gotta get to the beach, predictions. Scott Galloway · 43:11 Okay, so I'm going to choose my words carefully here because this is such a hot topic, but I think that, right. By the way, if I'm not risking my career every forty eight hours, I'm not doing my job. Kara Swisher · 43:24 Okay. Scott Galloway · 43:25 Look, I think the story of the year and maybe even the story of the next several years is gonna be Epstein's apparent suicide. If you have ever, ever been in a situation where it feels like there's a, not a shoe, but a 10 ton truck about to drop, and it's not even, I'm not even curious around this, I'm kind of scared because the notion that an individual who was about to spend the rest of his life in prison and the only way he wasn't gonna spend the rest of his life in prison was to drop a dime on some of the world's most powerful people somehow ends up hanging himself in an eight by 12 cell after he's on suicide watch. Kara Swisher · 44:04 Yeah. Know. It's like an episode of Homeland or something. Yeah. Scott Galloway · 44:07 Yeah. And so I I wanna engage Kara Swisher · 44:09 fact, it was an episode of Homeland, but go ahead. Scott Galloway · 44:11 I wanna engage the same thoughtful investigators that president Trump engaged to investigate Ted Cruz's father's role in the assassination of JFK, or the fact that he alleged that President Obama was born in Kenya. I wanna get those same crack investigators on this because if you were to basically look at all the conspiracy theories the White House has laid out over the last four years, and then talk about the fact that you had this guy who, now that he's dead, the most powerful people in the world are all sleeping better. And how how... If I tried to hang myself on 5th Avenue with the cameras, somebody would stop me, yet they couldn't figure out a way to not let this guy hang himself in an eight by 12 cell, and there's all this stuff, well, guard wasn't around, and there was either just such incredibly gross negligence or malfeasance here that it makes me sad because some of the most talented people I know and some of my closest friends come to The United States, not only for our freedoms, not only for economic opportunities, but because of the rule of law and that our government agencies are not only seen as competent, they're seen as trying to do the right thing. And, Kara, this shit just stinks. Kara Swisher · 45:19 I know. It does. It does. It makes me feel like a conspiracy theorist. I'm like, this is insane. Like, this can't be incompetence. This is, like, so planned. Like, the problem is which one of them killed them? Because there's so many. There's so many on so many sides. It's like maybe if someone was like, it's like, you know, the Agatha Christie mover, Murder on the Orient Express. Scott Galloway · 45:37 Yeah, all did it. Where they all did it. Kara Swisher · 45:39 Yeah. It's like, that's what it's like all of them, like over here, the Clintons. Over here, the Trumps. The Trumps, the Clintons. The the Elon Musk is wandering somewhere around. You know? It's like, literally, it feels like there's so many... And, you know, who knows the Russians? It does feel like we live in Russia right now. It feels like, oh, they just fell, they just got a cold and died. Like, what? Like, You know, like, took an umbrella and poked him or something. Like, I don't... Right. I feel like So much crazy share. Conspiracy Scott Galloway · 46:08 And the president's criminal defense attorney immediately comes out and says he's outraged, like, thou protesteth too much, and then the president tries to create a diversionary tactic accusing the Clintons of this. It's just I know. The whole thing Kara Swisher · 46:20 That's what I'm talking about, this group of people on the top who are running everything. I'm just telling you. Scott Galloway · 46:25 Yeah. So I... Look. I'm not I'm I'm not even sort of curious here. I'm just really disappointed that we're now that nation. That can't seem — Predictions segment ends — Kara Swisher · 46:34 You probably were always that nation in case you're interested. There was always. Listen, I'm near the top, and I'm scared of the people at the top. That's... I'm just saying they just... They they have a thing going on up there where they do bad things. Scott Galloway · 46:44 Well, that's the thing. You gotta downgrade to the little dog park with the big dog. We don't have to worry about that shit. We just chasing our balls and smell other dogs' butts. Kara Swisher · 46:51 Again, you are on Nantucket. I am up on Provincetown. I feel like you're Scott Galloway · 46:55 Downgrade in the little dog park. I have nothing to worry about. Economically secure. Have people who love me. Kara Swisher · 47:01 Would be gone right where you are. One big giant wave, and it would be over for most of elite. That is an elite island there. I've been there. Scott Galloway · 47:08 I have They don't children Kara Swisher · 47:08 think love can't colors on your houses there because it doesn't fit. Anyway, whatever. Scott Galloway · 47:12 I have kids who love me. I have Netflix, a dispensary. I'm just gonna enjoy myself until All the ass Kara Swisher · 47:16 how can do that? Scott Galloway · 47:17 Until the ass cancer shows up, We're Kara Swisher · 47:19 good to go. The good news is we're gonna be seeing a whole lot of each other next week. We have a live Pivot Explained for the People. Scott Galloway · 47:27 My gosh, we're hosting a live Pivot Show in New York. Sold out. And we're gonna do live predictions, or we're gonna assess people's predictions, and it just, I'm just so, A, I'm just totally shocked that people wanna show up and see us live, that live podcasting is a thing, I just still can't figure out that that is a thing. It seems like it's sort of an oxymoron, You but Kara Swisher · 47:46 hear a thing. I have been stopped on the street a dozen times here in Provincetown. Scott Galloway · 47:49 People. Yeah. I know. Yeah. That's it. Whereas I had... Kara Swisher · 47:52 You know you know Sean Hayes from Will and Grace? He's a friend of mine. Jack guy? Three of his... Yeah. We were hanging out Scott Galloway · 47:59 with Jack. Kara Swisher · 47:59 Yeah. Jack is a friend of mine. So Scott Galloway · 48:01 Oh my god. That is so awesome. Does Jack ask about me? He ask about Kara Swisher · 48:06 He doesn't. But he brought over, like, half a dozen other gay guys who loved Pivot. Like, I'm just like, hi. He's like, this person's a huge fan. They like Recode Decode too, but they were like, they love the whole shtick. They love... Anyway. Scott Galloway · 48:17 Jack loves Recode. Kara Swisher · 48:18 Jack, I'll introduce you to Jack. I think he's a Scott Galloway · 48:20 lovely one. You know, another empty promise. There's another rabbit coat He lives Kara Swisher · 48:23 in LA when you're in I'm Scott Galloway · 48:24 getting you a rabbit coat, sweetheart. Kara Swisher · 48:26 Yeah. We're gonna send you a we're gonna send you a a video. Okay? Jack. Will do. Then you'll Scott Galloway · 48:31 feel better and say Kara Swisher · 48:32 hi, Scott. Anyway, we'll be in New York next week. It will also be in Pivot. It'll be two Pivots. Bonus episode galore next week. We're gonna have a regular Pivot and this Pivot. It's gonna be great, and I can't wait to see you, Scott. What what are you wearing? Scott Galloway · 48:44 You know what I was thinking we should do? I think we should go, or at least what I'm gonna do, I wanna go as Megan Rapinoe. Kara Swisher · 48:49 Okay. Scott Galloway · 48:50 I'm serious. We should dress up. Kara Swisher · 48:51 I didn't know what that Scott Galloway · 48:52 Don't you think? Kara Swisher · 48:53 You need hair for that. But okay. Scott Galloway · 48:55 Well, I'll wear a wig. I'll wear a Okay. Kara Swisher · 48:57 You do whatever you want. You... I was thinking jumpsuits, matching jumpsuits. But, anyway, we'll figure it out on the phone separately. Thank you for dialing in today. Get back to the water. Take a dip. Scott Galloway · 49:07 Yeah. No way. No way. Kara Swisher · 49:09 Jump in the pool. Scott Galloway · 49:10 Don't worry. Papa home scrabble. That's my day. That's how the dog rolls. Kara Swisher · 49:14 You don't have to outrun the bear. You just have to be faster than the other people running away from the bear. That's what I say. Anyway, today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis and Eric Johnson. Erica Anderson is Pivot's executive producer. Thanks also to Rebecca Castro, Drew Burrows, and Nishat Kerwa. Make sure you've subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts. If you like this week's episode, leave us a review. If you have any suggestions for what you wanna hear of us talk about on a future show, send us an email, pivot@voxmedia.com. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

Came true

Resolved Dec 31, 2019 · 5 months after it aired

Pivot #47 · Aired Aug 16, 2019

The Jeffrey Epstein 'suicide' story will be the dominant news story of 2019, and possibly remain a major story for several years afterward.

The top 10 national stories of 2019 - WTOP Newswtop.com

5 more sources

How we graded it

Counts as true if: Media coverage/retrospectives rank the Epstein death story as the top or one of the top news stories of 2019, and it continues to generate major coverage in subsequent years.

Epstein's death was widely listed among the top national stories of 2019, and the story not only persisted but escalated into a defining multi-year political saga through 2025-2026, including congressional votes, DOJ document releases, contempt proceedings, and a royal arrest. This far exceeds Galloway's prediction that it would be the story of the year and possibly several years afterward. Evidence spans from 2019 year-end retrospectives through ongoing coverage in October 2026.

Researched and graded by AI on Oct 13, 2026