Kara Swisher · 30:53
Mucci thing. I went after him for a long time, and then we... Well, he's not my pal, but you know what I mean? Like, it was... I tend to use humor a lot more in in the thing. I just think you should expect to be attacked by the journalist. Welcome to the kitchen. Exactly. Yeah. Think no more letter writing, New York Times people, or any reporter. No more letter writing to their bosses. That's
Scott Galloway · 31:11
just 100%. So when? Let me talk about a win. It's along the same vein. I think his name is Josh Holly, a reporter at The Wall Street Journal, wrote a fantastic article about how big tech used to be innovators. Now their primary form of innovation is to exploit people. And it was really powerful that now the way they're adding shareholder value is, okay, how do we figure out a way to pay 4,000,000 driver partners less than minimum wage and delay and obfuscate the actual analysis of their pay? And some great articles have come out recently saying that now they are actually making less minimum wage or to have more and more contractors or what have you. But the new era of innovation is exploitation. And it's not only sad, but it's an important topic that needs more discussion and more examination. I think about AB InBev. There was so much innovation in the drinks category in the '70s and '80s. And then AB InBev came in and said, all right, our primary source of innovation is to cut costs. And now they've cut down to the bone, they need to start innovating again. And they're coming out with all these great mal brews and different things. But we're in this really unfortunate stage with big tech where the primary source of innovation is exploitation. And it goes back to another key theme. That is without more journalists I'm jumping all over the place, I apologize, but I thought one of the biggest stories this week, and it just made me really sad reading about it, was Oklahoma's decision to find Johnson and Johnson, I think it was $550,000,000 and the fact that Purdue may in fact be bankrupted or take themselves into bankruptcy and then come out as an Up Corp, and all the proceeds and profits go to the victims of opioids. And I really wonder if there had been as many journalists in this nation doing long form journalism as there were thirty years ago, would recognized we not the devastation, misery, and this general tragedy, the opioid crisis sooner? And
Kara Swisher · 33:09
Well, that is what we're doing with the social media, Scott. I feel like we are... We're ringing the alarms and stuff like that. I think it's a similar thing. Or it's not... No. Not... It's not it's not as devastating as the opioid crisis. But I'm saying, I think journalists did write a lot about it. I think the question is people were okay with it, and it fine... It takes a while for people to finally act on these things. That's... I I just... I don't know how. It seems like every kind of crisis like this, whether it's a water crisis or, pollution or whatever, It... Some... Someone goes too far just like Trump removing the methane rules today, you know. And then there's gonna be cancer and deaths and everything else, and the press will write about it, and then there'll be lawsuits. It seems like the American way in some
Scott Galloway · 33:52
Well, it goes to an ocean that Americans... Because, you know, we're in love with the macho. Right? We're Clint Eastwood and and general Mattis, who I'm actually interviewing next week, and I do think he's an
Kara Swisher · 34:01
Oh, ask him. Say him... Get him say Trump's name. Yeah. People who don't do allies are bad. Like, which people? Which one? Like Right. Did you notice that book? He never says Trump's name.
Scott Galloway · 34:12
Yeah. Don't think it's me. I I think he's... I think that's the way he... I think that's his punishment. I think I think Trump would rather use his name in a negative sense than not use it. But anyways, there's this macho where we've decided, Okay, regulation is wimpy in European. And the reality is some of the tragedy of the comments has been because we haven't had enough regulation. We haven't had enough scrutiny. We haven't had enough thoughtful people, elected officials, saying, well, what happens when people become addicted to opioids and who's responsible for that? And even weird things, like I was thinking about it, George Michael, Tom Petty, Prince, we think that they died of heart attacks or overdoses, but weren't those really opioid deaths? I mean, come... It's just strange we haven't connected the dots
Kara Swisher · 34:57
Don't go near Elvis. I love Elvis. Thank you.
Scott Galloway · 35:00
I don't know how you brought up Elvis. Anyways, I think Elvis
Kara Swisher · 35:02
because he died on the toilet drug abuse.
Scott Galloway · 35:06
He? Oh, I thought he died of ice cream. No. Anyways...
Kara Swisher · 35:09
Well, among the other things, but it was drug abuse.
Scott Galloway · 35:12
But, look, I I I wonder I wonder if we're gonna about to acknowledge that the regulation isn't necessarily a bad thing. It doesn't mean we're wimps if we ask our elected officials to be more thought... Or or have greater scrutiny and also hopefully armed by the greatest police force in the history that doesn't carry a gun or badge.
Kara Swisher · 35:30
Guess what? Real women regulate.
Scott Galloway · 35:33
Real women regulate?
Kara Swisher · 35:34
Get ready for Elizabeth Warren. President Elizabeth Warren.
Scott Galloway · 35:38
You... Are you all in on Elizabeth? Do you think... Is she here?
Kara Swisher · 35:42
You know, now that they've... I'll tell you. My win for the week is now there's just 10 of them on that stage, which we can see them all together.
Scott Galloway · 35:47
Chillibrand out. Pick and loop her out. Yeah. Yeah. And predictions. Do you have a prediction?
Kara Swisher · 35:52
No, bro. I guess, I do not have a prediction. But first, we're gonna... We have the listener email and voice email. So before we get to predictions, let's hear from some listeners, shall we? Go for it.
Speaker · 36:04
Hey, Kara and Scott. This is Dan Alasso. I'm a history professor in Bemidji, Minnesota and a big fan of Pivot. Super sympathetic to your approach, Scott, to inequality and class. But I gotta ask, what's the beef with Tesla? EVs are not as dirty as ICE cars, and Tesla is unlikely to increase the number of cars purchased, especially if autonomy ultimately works. It's more likely to shift cars off of petroleum while we're waiting for overall volume of vehicles to decrease, which could make all the difference to the carbon tipping point. And VW, give me a break. Dieselgate two with a new defeat device that apparently turns off the cleaners above 90 degrees Fahrenheit and below 50. I don't think it's inconceivable that Tesla would ever sell, but I can't see Elon with 22% of the stock and super majority voting rights to sell to VW. And I really don't see where you're coming from with the idea that the wheels are about to come off. If you guys really wanted to go after Elon, the question to ask would be who's gonna rule in space? Are we really gonna hand the moon or Mars or the asteroid belt or even low Earth orbit over to billionaires to try to create some type of Robert Heinlein millennium just because they're the guys that can get there? Thanks for listening.
Kara Swisher · 37:12
Wow. The Bemidji people are smarter than you are, Scott. I want him as my new host.
Scott Galloway · 37:17
God. I I hate it when thoughtful people call me out.
Kara Swisher · 37:21
So So what do you say? Answer.
Scott Galloway · 37:23
So first off, you know, word word to your mother. That was really impressive. And I think a lot of your points are really accurate. And he said a lot there, and I'll go in kind of reverse order. Where do we agree? I don't like it when wealthy people become the new arbiters of giant social projects. I don't think that we continue to allocate more and more of our government expenditures on the interest on debt, which is now greater than our expenditures on military, such that it crowds out all discretionary spending. And all discretionary spending around how we move forward humanity is left up to rich people. I call it the Pablo Escobar building parks phenomena. I don't like rich people getting to decide how we allocate big leaps in our society. So I agree. I think it should be NASA, not this sword fighting with your dick competition between Musk and Bezos in space. I don't like it. I think it's an externality of this incredible income inequality where we have people worth the GDP of Norway. As it goes to Tesla, I think there's a fair point. And that is I've said, I've said bullshit Tesla is not good for the environment. And a lot of smart, thoughtful people get back in my space and say, know, on the whole, is good for the environment. And I think I have to acknowledge that some of my own personal bias comes into this because I do not like Elon Musk. I think an individual who feels that he's beyond or above corporate governance and above what I call just general standards of behavior, calling strangers he's never met pedophiles. I have found that personally I want Tesla to lose. So there are some personal bias creeping into my viewpoint, which is quite frankly incorrect and inappropriate. So he's right. I do think on the whole, Tesla is probably going to be good for mankind. Now on valuation, I disagree. This thing is absolutely going to crash. And it's not a function of whether it's a good company or a bad company. I just think the structural economics of the automobile industry make it almost near impossible for an independent automobile manufacturer to survive long term. Now whether VW or Toyota or Daimler could buy it, that's a fair point. They may not have the balance sheet, but be clear, boss. Elon Musk is going to decide that rather than have the embarrassment of taking his company into Chapter 11, he is going to sell this thing. And every day he waits to sell it means he sells it at a lower price. Because this company is an auto company. It should trade at a multiple like an auto company, which means it's barely worth the obligations, the repair warranties, and the debt they have on it. So I agree with him. I acknowledge his point. By the way, that was a really thoughtful point, and thank you for taking the time to actually All do
Kara Swisher · 40:03
you, everybody, please call in and do these. We like answering them, especially when you argue with us, especially Scott, really. I'm always correct.
Scott Galloway · 40:11
There you go.
Kara Swisher · 40:12
But he's absolutely right. There's there's a really tough article on, Elon Musk this week in Vanity Fair, about, Solar City. And I think one of the things that I came away from is there's some really troubling things in the story, but that these are big ideas, and ahead of their skis is a very good way to put it. Some of them are, like, with stuff... What's going on at SpaceX or Tesla or solar city are great. They're not small ideas. And, and so it's a complex... It's complex is what it is. Yeah. It's what it
Scott Galloway · 40:40
Yeah.
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 40:40
Anyway, thank you, Dan. From Bemidji, we really appreciate it. So, Scott, we're gonna do predictions, but here's a question that came into our inbox is how you come up with your predictions, Scott. What is the formula? Is it a magic eight ball? Do you have chicken entrails? What is your what is your methodology around your predictions? Are you just, I don't know, sit and stare at a wall? What is your what is your manner?
Scott Galloway · 41:03
Sativa. Predictions? Okay. No, look, spend all tell day
Kara Swisher · 41:09
what people want to know.
Scott Galloway · 41:10
I spend all day. I work with a group of really talented people. And we spend all day marinating in data, looking at trends and data. And some stuff just bubbles up to the top that seems fairly obvious. One of the keys So if you will, the steel in the ground are the pillars of predictions are data. And you will see trend lines start to appear around data. So there's some fascinating things coming out of retail right now. We're going to see the resale market secondhand clothing be bigger than fast fashion in 2028. That's incredible data. So I'm thinking about a lot of predictions off of that, what that means for retail. And then the key around making predictions, that's the underpinnings, that's the steal. But the key is to be fearless. And that's to say, all right, take your gut, take the data, and then think of something. And regardless of how stupid that sounds, regardless of the actual likelihood of that at the current time, make the prediction. Because the thing about predicting is that people as long as you're predicting to learn, you're not predicting to be right. People respect you for it, and it catalyzes a dialogue. That's the key. So I am absolutely fascinated with predictions. But the way you reach the promised land of predictions is to say, I'm going use predictions as a means of learning and catalyzing a conversation and not trying to be right. Because if you're trying to be right, you're never going to have the confidence or the cojones to make predictions because eventually you're going to be wrong.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 42:27
That's a very good. Thank you for that cogent. I see we're getting you very serious, Scott. I'm liking that I'm focusing you on the year to come. Next week do know you what next week is? Our fiftieth episode. Our fiftieth. Wow. And we have lots to talk about because in, like, like, next week is right after Labor Day, but the week after that, Apple is is is... Has an event. It's just sent out the invitations this morning. I don't know if you got one to its September 10 event where it's... Where they're expected to announce the iPhone 11, which will be interesting. There's all kinds of things coming up. A lot of people think this is the first triple camera system on the rear of the device, all kinds of things, a little bigger display, all kinds of stuff. So we have lots to talk about, but this is our fiftieth episode. What should we do? What what... We're gonna do more live events, obviously, but what what should we do for our fiftieth episode?
Scott Galloway · 43:12
Well, first off, it's nice that you've noticed that we're going into year two of our relationship, which I would loosely describe as a triumph of hope over experience. Okay. Yeah, we're a year into this. You know what? You know what the first podcast I ever listened to? What? Was the podcast on Recode where you interviewed me. I had never listened to a podcast. Of course, I'm a The first podcast I ever listened to. And it spawned all of this, Kara. All of this. All of this.
Kara Swisher · 43:41
I'm gonna say.
Scott Galloway · 43:42
Yeah. Year two.
Kara Swisher · 43:42
I like it.
Scott Galloway · 43:43
So what should we do?
Kara Swisher · 43:43
We're gonna bring you more.
Scott Galloway · 43:44
What should we do? In a word in a word, Toronto. We're going to Toronto. We're gonna do Did live you
Kara Swisher · 43:51
see all those tweets? Yeah. Every city... We're like Amazon, which we ask for. Yeah. We should ask for things.
Scott Galloway · 43:55
That's an Amazon.
Kara Swisher · 43:56
We had Minnesota asking us. We had all these weird... These cities.
Scott Galloway · 43:59
All I want is a helipad. I don't have a helicopter, but I'd like a helipad. And I would
Kara Swisher · 44:02
a goat. I want one city to offer us a goat of some sort or something interesting or a big dog, for example. What city will actually offer
Scott Galloway · 44:10
us goat dog? Have you seen how many tweets we've gotten from Toronto?
Kara Swisher · 44:13
Toronto? Are
Scott Galloway · 44:14
huge in Toronto.
Kara Swisher · 44:15
We're going to Toronto with Canadians.
Scott Galloway · 44:18
I'd like to announce here we've... Because of all the online heat we've been getting and people saying come to Toronto, we're gonna figure... Year two, our anniversary, you and I are going to Toronto.
Kara Swisher · 44:29
All right. Fantastic. That sounds great. And other cities, please. We are welcome. We are bribable. We are absolutely 100%. Especially Scott. Anyway,
Scott Galloway · 44:38
I'm
Kara Swisher · 44:38
really excited, Scott. I've had
Scott Galloway · 44:39
such a lovely time. Here's the bad news is I'm a whore, but the good news is I'm
Kara Swisher · 44:42
a cheap whore. So just send me a little bit
Scott Galloway · 44:45
of merch into Big Dog's Goomboneer Park. It can be an old tennis ball. It can be a a pig's ear. It can be it can be a promiscuous poodle. Anything you want, just bring it, and I'll be there.
Kara Swisher · 44:57
Ends not with a bang, but a poodle. But a whimper. Anyway, Scott, thank you. I'll talk to you next week, and I will see you soon in New York. Anyway, finish your vacation, please. It would be really nice if you came back from vacation. Anyway, today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Eric Anderson is Pivot's executive producer. Thanks also to Rebecca Castro, Drew Burrows, Eric Johnson, and Nishat Kerwa. Special thanks to Gautam Srikeshin for engineering this episode. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. And if you like this week's episode, leave us a review. Also, we got so many emails, so shoot us more emails at pivot@voxmedia.com. Thanks for listening to pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.
