Pivot · Mar 29, 2022

Oscars Reactions, Apple Subscriptions, and The Team Behind Super Pumped: The Battle for Uber

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 53:17. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Guest · 53:17 Life and change the world in a positive way. At the very beginning, they they all do say that and mean it, we think. And some of the Wall Street guys just want to make a return. Kara Swisher · 53:29 Yeah. I would agree with that. Although, I think I prefer the Wall Street people because they're... It's very clear. I think the tech people are are performative in their changing the world stuff most of the time. They just like money and power same difference. Guest · 53:43 Well, was... It's funny, when we had that Mike Berbiglia character on Billions who played Oscar Langstrat, who's a VC, he was more like that, like someone who's read the Tibetan Book of the Dead or the Book of Living and Dying, but only so that they can use it to charm a founder. But when... I will say we've had through billions the opportunity to spend time with people like Marc Andreessen and Chris Saka and Bill Gurley. And when you're around some of these VCs, and Mark, who's to me incredibly fascinating because almost as a unicorn unto himself, somebody who was able to, as a programmer, change the world and then as a VC, change the world. And they do... It seems to me that someone... If we look at someone like Andreessen, he just thinks differently than anybody else I've ever met. And I do believe that many people in the industry you've covered so closely read books that are different than the hedge fund people read. Whether they have to do it as a way to curry favor with the business they want to do or not, they do have a catholicity of interests and they do have a breadth of knowledge. And then they use that in some way to affect the world. And I don't know, I'm fascinated by that interlocking thing where they could all be professors. Very few of the hedge fund people could be professors. Scott Galloway · 55:15 I've worked... I advise a lot of hedge funds, and I heard that Axe was actually a mashup of four different hedge fund guys, and I named them, and I've worked with a couple of them. Is that true that it was meant to be a composite of four different famous hedge fund guys? Guest · 55:28 He... I was gonna say he's a... He's sort of a composite, but not four specific people just quartered up like that. We just... As a hedge fund operator on our show, we wanted him to be able to do basically every style of investing. So that we had more options in a way that no one person in real life would. Guest · 55:46 But the fun thing is one of those people who you definitely know who the person is went up to Damian at the US Open one year and almost like, I'm Bobby Axelrod. And this was not Steve Kone. Let me Kara Swisher · 55:57 be really clear. It Axman Guest · 55:59 or The only one I'll say it's not is Steve Kone. This guy goes up to him at the Open and goes, I'm Bobby Axelrod. And Damian texts us, Is this guy Bobby Axelrod? And we were like, no, man. That guy is not that guy is not Bobby Axelrod. Guest · 56:13 Well, everybody started saying it when the show was a hit. Right? Kara Swisher · 56:15 A 100%. We just interviewed Kelly, who played, who plays Jeff Bezos in your show and plays Scott Galloway, which is, of course, his greatest role of all time. Guest · 56:26 Don dollar bill on billions. Kara Swisher · 56:28 Dollar bill on billions. He's really great. One of the interviews I did with Travis was when he told the truth about what he was up to. It was a shocking interview because I asked him, you know, when are you ever gonna make money? I do math, and this doesn't make sense to me. None of this does. You know, it just doesn't add up. And he he said... He turned to me in this interview. It was a public interview, and he said, you know, Kara, when we can get rid of the guys in the front seats, that'll be great. That'll be... Essentially, that's what he said. I I don't have the exact words, but it was that lines is that once we get automated cars, it all works out. So we're just using these people as fodder to get where we wanna get. And a lot of people were horrified, and I said, thank you. Thank you for finally telling the truth of what a malignant fuck you are, you know, and what you're thinking about this. And I thought it was actually quite refreshing because he was being clear about... One of the things I did appreciate with Travis, he was... He didn't hide his face the way a lot of them do. Did you did you have that feel? I talked to Joseph Gordon Levitt about it, about this idea of of brutal honesty that I appreciated even though I was repulsed by it at the same time. Did you come away with an admiration for him at all, any of you? Guest · 57:43 It's it's hard to call it admiration, though. I'll say the show in the later episodes does get into that question of automated cars and getting rid of the drivers and the human beings being the impediment to the whole thing working. You know, it's... I would say we're fascinated by the way that he's a a brutalist in that way. We don't admire it, but Yeah. It is quite fascinating to us. Kara Swisher · 58:07 What about Beth? Guest · 58:08 Or Yeah. I would just say that we don't really... We try not to put a moral judgment on it, but instead try to create the most complex version of the character based on the book that Mike delivered to us and the conversations we had. And I think that's something, again, that the audience has to grapple with, which is he said it to your face. He was not hiding Otto. Kara Swisher · 58:30 No. He couldn't. No. He could. Guest · 58:32 Does that mean whenever you get in a car with... That's run by that company? Scott Galloway · 58:37 Have you have you heard from any of the characters or the financiers, and what has been their response to the program? Guest · 58:45 Well, the answer is, I do know Gurley, but we mostly talk about Jason Isbell, not the show. Kara Swisher · 58:52 Okay. Because he comes off good. Comes to god. So why wouldn't he like Guest · 58:56 There was a big outreach from various people before we and during making the show. And we spoke to some people. We didn't speak to others. We never spoke to Travis. But then when show Kara Swisher · 59:07 aired understand he reached out. Correct? I'm sure he did. Guest · 59:10 When when the show started to air, the the sort of conversational outreach definitely went quiet. Oh. Because, you know, they weren't gonna be able to affect anything, I suppose. Kara Swisher · 59:23 Right. Right. So they just wanted to move away from from the thing. Well, I suppose that's the best outcome. Right? So the final question I have is, does it make you use Uber more or less since you did this? Guest · 59:38 I find Lyft as an amazing platform. Scott Galloway · 59:41 Yeah. Kara Swisher · 59:42 Okay. Guest · 59:43 I use Lyft exclusively now, though, as Beth likes to point out. Scott Galloway · 59:46 That's interesting. Guest · 59:47 None of us are perfect. We're all deeply flawed. Mean, I were stuck somewhere and I couldn't get a Lyft, just to go back to Scott's original point, Uber is ubiquitous and it's a really good service in lots of ways. But I use Lyft. I would say I haven't used Uber since the show started, but I can't take a purity test. I would if I had to. Kara Swisher · 1:00:08 Yeah. What about you, Beth? Guest · 1:00:09 I don't use Uber unless I am in a position where it's, you know, stand in the cold or not stand in the cold. But I think as we say in the show itself, like, we are all constantly making these decisions based on the information we have available, and our brains are incredibly good at shutting out the information we have about many, many corporations that do really terrible things because we like the taste of the french fries or the taste of the chicken sandwich. So Yeah. You know, I'm imperfect. Kara Swisher · 1:00:46 Thank you very much, Beth Schachter, Brian Koppelman, and David Levine. You can find super pumped on Showtime. New episodes are out every Sunday, and there are just two more left. I wonder how it ends. Thank you so much. Scott Galloway · 1:01:00 Congrats. Well done. Guest · 1:01:01 Thank you. Guest · 1:01:02 Thank you both so much. Thanks. Kara Swisher · 1:01:04 Alright, Scott. One more quick break. That was really interesting. We'll be back for predictions. [Ad break] — Predictions segment begins — Kara Swisher · 1:02:03 Okay, Scott. Time for predictions. Obviously, you did a good job on Apple. So what is your next prediction? You can talk about whether your show's gonna be a hit, how well CNN plus, if you wanna go out on that limb, you can do it. I'll be happy to saw it off after you. Scott Galloway · 1:02:18 Look. I am really rattled by what happened last night, and I'm getting mocked on Twitter for, oh, clutching his pearls. Why is he so triggered by this? But I think what Janai Nelson, who's at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund said, and that is the way casual violence was normalized tonight by a collective national audience will have consequences we can't even fathom in the moment. And so my prediction is, and I always try to look at this through the lens of young men, there were two men involved last night. And one demonstrated tremendous masculinity, and the other is Will Smith. So my prediction is that as we come to grips with what these little instances of normalizing violence are and the repercussions, we're going to realize that our society needs to absolutely reject this and redefine masculinity as that strength and power in advocating for others is one thing. And I want to be honest, I think there is a time for violence. And I think that's being demonstrated by brave men and women in Ukraine. I do think that occasionally, do need that big dick toxic masculinity to pick up arms and protect others. Guest · 1:03:32 Yeah. Well But Okay. Scott Galloway · 1:03:35 You don't Kara Swisher · 1:03:35 need to be toxic. Scott Galloway · 1:03:37 It could be for a good cause. Describe as toxic. But, anyways Alright. Point taken. Kara Swisher · 1:03:41 There's nothing toxic about protecting your home. My Go Scott Galloway · 1:03:45 other prediction is, and I'm trying to use my platforms to bring attention to Ukraine, But I think we're gonna... There's just so many stories about almost 4,000,000 Ukrainian refugees so far. Expect 10,000,000, you know, heroic efforts to survive and save others. And, you know, the trauma they will process for years is unfathomable. I also loved that actor dressed up as a bunny to comfort children in subway shelters. And Kharkiv, did you see this on TikTok? Kara Swisher · 1:04:18 No. I did not. Scott Galloway · 1:04:19 But basically, lot of there's been this great footage of this guy roaming the streets under threat of shelling to rescue stray dogs. Just think there are just millions of points of light. So I'm trying to reposition a win as a prediction. I think we're gonna look back on this period and find just moments, millions of moments of heroism taking place in in Ukraine. War brings out absolutely the worst in society, but it does oftentimes get people to demonstrate the best. Kara Swisher · 1:04:50 I agree. I predict there's... It's still gonna be a long haul for Russia to do this to these people. I interviewed two people this morning quite early in California time. One was a journalist and disinformation expert from Ukraine. She's an... She broadcast... She she called me from her basement where she had to move to Western Ukraine with her child and will not leave the country. She refuses. It's safer in Western Ukraine, obviously, right now, and she... Her determination was quite adamant. And then I interviewed the head of TV Rain who had to close down his his his independent media company in Russia. He left the country because he was endangered over that law to making it illegal. He refused to broadcast lies with the government, and he just interviewed, president Zelenskyy and the Russians. That's illegal. He's a Russian citizen. He still did it anyway. I have great hope for these people. I really do. I was really moved by their determination and not in a sentimental way. They're like, we're not... This is our home. We're doing our job, and I was... And democracy really seems to have... They both talked about the tech groups and how it had become more entrepreneurial and democratic, and it gave me great hope talking to these people. I have great hope for that country. Hopefully, that we... And we should step up helping them, keep a democracy that was growing really nicely in a country that deserves it. Guest · 1:06:15 So that's what I would say. Scott Galloway · 1:06:17 There you go. Guest · 1:06:18 Thank you. Kara Swisher · 1:06:18 There you go. Okay, Scott. That's the show. — Predictions segment ends — Scott Galloway · 1:06:21 We're missing the launch party, Kara. Kara Swisher · 1:06:23 I'm sorry. Just drink without Scott Galloway · 1:06:25 Just think. The show got... The show didn't get canceled before it launched. That's a victory. That's a win. Kara Swisher · 1:06:30 Victory. But let me just tell you what you need to do with this party. Scott Galloway · 1:06:33 What do I need to do? Kara Swisher · 1:06:34 Do not drink Scott Galloway · 1:06:35 and try to the money drunk. Kara Swisher · 1:06:38 Don't drink and do something bad. Scott Galloway · 1:06:40 Take off your affectionate. Kara Swisher · 1:06:41 Show your stomach to people. Scott Galloway · 1:06:43 Don't super pump me. Don't don't conflate me. Kara Swisher · 1:06:46 I'm I'm telling you I don't want to be canceled. I'm excited to pay $3. Scott Galloway · 1:06:49 It's when a camera goes on me that I lose it. Kara Swisher · 1:06:52 I'm actually excited to pay $3 to hear what you say to me all the time. I'm very Scott Galloway · 1:06:56 There you go. There you go. Alright. Today's show was produced by Lara Naaman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertaught engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Emil Savario. Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot and New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for a breakdown of all things tech and business. What do real men do? They deescalate the situation. Kara Swisher · 1:07:17 And watch Scott's show Scott Galloway · 1:07:19 also. Kara. [Ad break] Scott Galloway · 1:08:16 See store online [Ad break]