Kara Swisher · 55:11
Reid, how are you looking at these? Obviously, you're making these, you know, AI investments in cancer research. This guy will be right there at the head of of all these organizations that are very related to some of these things.
Guest · 55:25
So, look, I think the unfortunate prediction for RFK's probable confirmation is it will probably be measured in thousands of American lives lost. Right? I think that the the question around the fact that he's saying, I'm just following science, no, he's not, right? Not only is he anti vaccine in many, many statements over decades, like, he is essentially anti science. Like, I've heard of meetings where he is meeting with scientists, where the scientists try to tell him, he's like, no, no, you're supposed to listen to me. It's like, no, no, The whole point is to listen to good scientists. And I think this will be... You know, if this confirmation goes through, I think the senators who vote on it should track how many thousands of American lives they're willing to spend in this calculus. Because if he implements any of the things that he has thought of, he has articulated and talked about, you know, I think the cost is going to be measured in lives.
Kara Swisher · 56:32
Have you been surprised by how many tech people, have been attracted to him? I'm I'm gonna leave that Nicole Shanahan. She was not a tech person. She's just a rich person who married a tech person who and got money that way. How do you... Have have you been surprised by that? Because there is a whole strain of people who really back him in the tech firm... In the tech area, even as they make these big investments in AI and cancer and... Where he will have an impact.
Guest · 57:00
So I think, that one of the, you know, the strengths and weaknesses tend to go together. And a lot of tech people tend to think they go, well, I met him, and it was a perfectly reasonable conversation. And so therefore, you know, like, oh, that's just all media stuff. It's like... It's media stuff that he said that he did in other rooms that you weren't in. Right? But there there tends to be this this this really strong, you know, kinda like, no. No. I met him, and I
Kara Swisher · 57:27
can Yeah. I I got the cut of jib. Actually, Gates did this the other day with Trump, which was disappointing. But go ahead.
Guest · 57:33
I think one of the things that's very important is to have a little bit of like, look, just how a person talks to you is not necessarily how they actually, in fact, operate in the world. And you have to apply that. And so, I've had a number of tech people try to say, Oh, RFK, he's great. I'm like, just look. Like, for example, in an alternative like hiring context, I prefer references to interviewing. I prefer to have both, but reference checking is much better. And it's like, I... I've seen the references on RFK. Like like, that's part of the reason why it's like, okay. The... This appointment will be measured in thousands of American lives lost.
Kara Swisher · 58:12
Well, let's leave it at that then. Alright, Scott and Reid, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
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— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 1:00:19
Okay, Scott and Reid. Let's hear a prediction. I'm gonna go first, actually. I'll be at the White House soon with Tracy Flick, the new press secretary. The White House is welcoming podcasters to the Briefing Room. Carolyn is is running it right now. She has decided that new media, which I agree with, including independent journalists, podcasters, and influencers, will be able to question... Ask questions at briefings. I welcome this. The Biden administration should have done it, should have had different and not just the traditional people. So I'm super excited to go to the White House, and I will be there this year. That's my prediction that Carolyn is gonna let me in, Tracy slash whatever the heck she is. Thank you. Any comment?
Guest · 1:00:59
I love that prediction. And by the way, I think it's a good thing
Kara Swisher · 1:01:02
I do to
Guest · 1:01:02
begin to broaden the kind of set of different folks in the briefing room. I just think it's critical if you think, like I am... This is the office of the president for all Americans to have a diversity of access to it. I mean, so for example, you have a, you know, kind of a Democratic president. You still have Fox News, obviously, in the room. You need to have that that that breadth of perspective to be representative to the American people. So I love that prediction.
Kara Swisher · 1:01:34
Yeah. I know she wants me there. She wants me on that wall.
Scott Galloway · 1:01:37
Well, first off, I long your prediction. I immediately read that, and I sent Jim Acosta an email saying, I need you to start a podcast. I want you back at those press Yeah. Those press briefings.
Kara Swisher · 1:01:47
Yeah. This is the CNN person, for people who don't know, who left, when they tried to put him on at midnight. He started his own... He has started a bunch of stuff on his own, which... And he's a great guy. We love him.
Scott Galloway · 1:01:57
He's a great journalist. So I'm fascinated by what I think is kind of a tectonic shift with DeepSeeker, just the notion that there might be a reasonable facsimile of the best AI models at a much lower price. I I I think that this... Regardless of what we find out, it was probably exaggerated. There is now, I think, a much greater likelihood we might be able to see cheap and cheerful kind of old old Navy like models. So my prediction is there's an entire layer of companies and pharmaceuticals in the consumer sector that had allocated a $102,105 $100,000,000 for CapEx for the cost or OpEx for the cost of AI that they were gonna have to spend to rent these models to develop new drugs, come up with a better itinerary for your air... Airbnb stay, that all of a sudden are gonna decide, wow. We're gonna be able to get all of the great taste of AI with a lot less calories, a lot less OpEx. And you're gonna see a bunch of companies that were setting aside a ton of reserves because they thought this was gonna be a lot more expensive than it's gonna be, recognize, take those reserves back, and it'll juice their bottom line. So I'm in the midst of trying to identify those... I don't know if it's Airbnb. I don't know if it's Johnson and Johnson or or GlaxoSmithKline, but I think there's an entire layer of companies that just got great news that their CapEx on AI could be 30, 50, 80% less than they'd originally anticipated.
Guest · 1:03:28
Well, I think that actually we will see a variety of those. I don't think it's necessarily because of the deep sea canoes. I think that we were actually already heading towards that. I think that part of the agenic futurethis is commenting on Scott's Part of the agentic future will be actually, in fact, compositions of smaller models that deliver really effective services across a wide range for individuals, for organizations, and so and so. I I agree with his prediction, but not necessarily just as a as a deep seek response.
Kara Swisher · 1:04:00
K. Reid, your prediction.
Guest · 1:04:03
So I, you know, I was thinking about this a little bit, and I think that one thing that would be an an interesting thing that people wouldn't expect out of this is I think that the AI agents will trend towards creating agents that will be actually massively positive for human mental health. And I think that the natural market dynamics will reach in that direction because as people interact with these agentsand I think I've already seen this from what my startup, Inflexion, did with PIE that has helped a bunch of other agents following this to be high EQ, kindness, and other kinds of things. And I think those will actually, in fact, help people feel more heard, more seen, a dynamic of interaction that is more who we aspire to be, and will actually help naturally through people just choosing the agents they want to interact with to an increase in kind of mental health and well-being.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:07
Well, unless... You know, as you know, I interviewed the mother of the character AI. There's the lawsuit there. They can take that turn where they shouldn't be around young people, for example. They shouldn't... You're talking about adults here. Correct?
Guest · 1:05:19
I'm talking about adults, although I think we also can, and I think we should be much more careful about how we engage with children in various ways. That's saying it's one of the important things for the technology industry to get much better at. But I tend to think that the natural dynamics of we will prefer agents that have this characteristic. Now, I think part of the thing that it can be is having even agents that are trained to be very good in mental health will also be good.
Kara Swisher · 1:05:50
So that they will so that there are good agents. There's my only issue is the potential for abuse is so massive, and you're seeing it. The lack of care. You know what I mean? Like, why didn't that kid why didn't that company alert it when the kid said suicide? Like, for stuff like that. Like, what... Where was... Why was that never there? And that's that's the problem, and their their argument is now that it's free speech. It it was gonna be section two thirty, but now it's... These agents, these... Like like, in that case, should bots have free speech? Like, that's the kind of stuff we're gonna have to deal with as a society. Is it free speech when it's bot generated?
Guest · 1:06:25
I think at the moment, it's definitely not free speech when it's bot generated.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:28
Yeah. Well, that's one of the issues we're gonna talk about because it will be just off the fly. I prefer kind agents to mean ones, but I suspect... I... This is why I love Reid. He's such a sunny character. But I expect really mean agents because people like that, like abusive agents and that kind of stuff. So.
Guest · 1:06:45
It may be they prefer agents to be abusive of other people, but I think most people prefer them to be kind to them.
Kara Swisher · 1:06:50
I don't know. I'm gonna... As usual, I take a darker turn on the thing. We'll see which which our future brings us. Elsewhere, in the Scott and Cara universe, this week on Prop G Markets, Scott spoke with Robert Armstrong, US financial commentator for the Financial Times. Let's listen.
— Predictions segment ends —
Speaker · 1:07:08
In the world we lived in last Friday, having a great AI model behind your applications either involved building your own or going to ask OpenAI, can I run my application on top of your brilliantly good AI model? Now maybe this is great for Google. Right? Maybe this is great for Microsoft who were shoveling money on the assumption that they had to build it themselves at great expense.
Kara Swisher · 1:07:37
Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Scott and Reid, that's the show. Thank you for joining us, Reid. And, again, your new book is What Could Possibly Go Right with Our AI Future. Thank you, Reid, again. Scott, read us out.
Scott Galloway · 1:07:52
Today's show was produced by Lara Nayman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, miss Severio, and Dan Chelan. Nishat Kurwa is Fox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Fox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Have a great weekend.
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