Pivot · May 25, 2021

Tim Cook takes the stand in Apple vs. Epic trial and a Friend of Pivot on app dating

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 53:09. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Guest · 53:09 Between porn and all of this. Mhmm. And I mean, think the fact that dating now involves nudes, which are essentially self generated pornography is one of the big tip offs about that. But anyways, I'm sorry. Scott Galloway · 53:20 But let's let's assume that technology around key components of our society, including dating and mating, that it's it's out of the bottle, and it's probably not gonna be put back in. Guest · 53:31 Whether more women. Hire more women in your company. Kara Swisher · 53:34 Alright. Ask your question. Let me ask Guest · 53:35 your question. I'm Go ahead. Scott Galloway · 53:37 Well, you you you began to answer my question. What what would you like to see us advocate and push these companies to do to make a healthier ecosystem? Guest · 53:45 Hire more women. Hire more people of color. I think that if there were more people of color at these apps, for example Mhmm. The algorithms... It wouldn't be acceptable that the algorithms were biased towards race, which a 2018 study book by Cornell says that dating apps are essentially racist. And you can read about that. But, you know, I don't have to go into why, but they're they're... They promote racism not only on the apps, but outside of the app. So I think that if there are more people of color, more LGBTQ people, more women in these companies, in positions of power, and in the design Scott Galloway · 54:17 So we have that Bumble, which was founded by a woman, do you find that that's a healthier ecosystem? Guest · 54:22 No. Bumble was founded by a woman who, I mean, I'm sorry to say, I think is a you know, what they call a foot soldier for the patriarchy because Mhmm. Bumble... The idea for Bumble was not Whitney Wolferd's idea. It was the idea of the guy who... The Russian mogul who does Badoo. Kara Swisher · 54:41 That is... Guest · 54:41 Andriv... Do pronounce his name, Ron? On... It was his idea. He came to, Whitney and said, hey. We wanna do this? You wanna be the face of this thing? And we'll say it's a feminist dating app and this is not like my conspiracy theory. This has been reported and it's it's known. And he still owns, I think 80% of it and she owns 20. It still made her enormously wealthy but they they they... She's one of the richest women in America according to Forbes but they, promote this and newspapers like the Washington Post and all these people continually say the feminist dating app. But then I talked to like feminist, you know, thinkers and scholars about it and they said, what is feminist about this? This is not feminist in any way, shape, or form. It just, like, codifies Scott Galloway · 55:24 first fall. Anyone that is less bad in your view? Guest · 55:28 I mean, I I I I think that there are people out there Mhmm. Like like like Justin McLeod who does Hinge. He's a good guy, and he really wants in his heart to make this better and make it a better experience. I don't think that everyone who does a dating app is is an evil person. Like, they they want, you know. Kara Swisher · 55:46 You wanna make people meet each other. Guest · 55:47 They want people to meet each other and Hinge for a while had this idea like, Oh, we're gonna be the app that you delete and we're gonna give you all this data about all our... This was a couple of years ago when I was also making waves. They came out, I don't know if it was connected, but they did come out and they said, we're gonna publish all this data about how many people on Hinge have met their long term partner spouse. I never saw that data. I think because it doesn't exist and if it did, it wouldn't or if it wouldn't be Kara Swisher · 56:17 As impressive. Guest · 56:19 Right. It wouldn't be a good advertisement. I do think that they want it to be better but they're gonna have to do a whole lot more. Kara Swisher · 56:25 Alright. I come to one conclusion. Let your mama fix you up. That's what I say. Guest · 56:29 Let your mama Kara Swisher · 56:31 fix you up. Guest · 56:32 Since you know about the ducks, you know that in the beginning of the book, I talk about the days of, like, you know, arranged marriages and everything, and I am advocating that. That would I know. Kara Swisher · 56:40 But I feel like I would make good choices Guest · 56:42 for children. Scott Galloway · 56:43 God. That's what we need. Guest · 56:44 You would. You would, but not everyone. Kara Swisher · 56:46 I know. Just me. I made choices for everybody. Guest · 56:49 Would have been that girl, that young woman in the book who, like, got out of Dodge and moved to New York City and became a factory worker and went on dates in the nineteen teens, which is how dating started. Yeah. And and I would have been her, and I would have gotten in all kinds of trouble for that. Kara Swisher · 57:03 But... Yep. Anyway, Nancy, I love the work you're doing. I think it's great. I'm glad you... Keep fighting the Scott Galloway · 57:08 Nancy Joe. Kara Swisher · 57:08 Fighting the good good fight. Guest · 57:09 I love you guys. Thank you Kara Swisher · 57:10 so much. Thank you. And good luck. The book is called Nothing Personal. And and it's Nancy Joe Sales who's very well known. She says it's my secret life in the dating app Inferno. And when the word inferno is used, that's not hot. It's just burnt. Correct, Nancy? Guest · 57:26 Although although there's a lot of hot sex in the book. Okay. Kara Swisher · 57:29 And moving on. Okay. Thank you so much. We really appreciate you being here. Scott Galloway · 57:33 Thanks, Nancy Bye Kara Swisher · 57:34 bye. [Ad break] Kara Swisher · 59:10 Alright, Scott. That was Grimm. Grim. Grim. It's a good thing you have that lovely wife of yours. I'll just tell you that. Me too. Scott Galloway · 59:17 I'm glad I was like... I grew up in an era where I just went to bars and got ridiculously fucked up so I could get the confidence to speak to strangers. That was much healthier. Kara Swisher · 59:25 Really? That's That Scott Galloway · 59:26 was much healthier. Kara Swisher · 59:27 Is that how you did it? Scott Galloway · 59:28 Pretty much. Kara Swisher · 59:29 I never used a dating app, my friend, never, not once, never. Just meet people and just meet people. Scott Galloway · 59:34 Oh, well, good for you. Isn't that nice? Kara Swisher · 59:37 It's true. Scott Galloway · 59:37 Isn't that nice? Kara Swisher · 59:39 Oh, it is nice actually. I have to tell you, would never be able to survive on a Scott Galloway · 59:43 dating app. I gotta be honest, When she said she was dating this lovely young man for a moment, I thought she was gonna say it was Louis Swisher. I gotta be honest. — Predictions segment begins — Kara Swisher · 59:51 Cougar Town on this episode of Cougar Town. No. Alright. Scott, wins and fails. Wins and fails. You know what I'm gonna talk about. Scott Galloway · 59:59 I told you I banged a cougar and now I'm no longer allowed at that zoo any longer. Kara Swisher · 1:00:03 Oh my god. Scott Galloway · 1:00:04 Oh my That's my that's my conclusion. Kara Swisher · 1:00:05 God. Why did I let you say that? Listen. Scott Galloway · 1:00:08 Listen. That was way too serious. Kara Swisher · 1:00:09 I'm gonna go first. You know what my win's gonna be? What is my win gonna be? Scott Galloway · 1:00:13 I don't know. What's your win? Guest · 1:00:14 Mary of East Town, Kara Swisher · 1:00:16 Third speaking of hot Scott Galloway · 1:00:18 week in a row? Kara Swisher · 1:00:19 Let me just say, it's really Win catching win win. It's becoming a big hit. It is a big hit now. I was right about it from the beginning. This is a big hit. This, I have predicted on online who is gonna, who is the killer? Who's the killer? I have... I I feel like I made a good case. I'm not gonna do it here. Yeah. But I did it on... You can go look on the Twitter to see my guests. Scott Galloway · 1:00:37 On the Twitter? Kara Swisher · 1:00:38 On the Twitter. I love that show. Scott Galloway · 1:00:39 Tried to explain it to me earlier today and I didn't understand. Kara Swisher · 1:00:42 What? Oh, Scott Galloway · 1:00:43 I'm having yeah. Trouble tracking all the characters and all the motives. Kara Swisher · 1:00:45 That's the whole point. That's the whole point. They're all related to each other. That's all you need to know, and they all have weird agendas they don't know about, and they all have weird relationships, and that's all you need to know. Go ahead. You go ahead. You go ahead. But that is my win and it's my fail that it will be over next week. Thank you. Scott Galloway · 1:01:00 Yeah. The win, I think there's a lot of really great innovation to encourage people to get vaccines. I think some of these state lotteries are wonderful. And I think also speaking of dating apps, some of the dating apps have agreed to make vaccines criteria. And Andy Slavitt, our friend, worked with some dating apps such that people could request and also it's now a criteria whether you're vaxxed or not. And I think there's a lot of great innovation and thoughtful encouragement around ensuring that we I mean this thing is a monster and it's on the run, but we shouldn't just let it escape town. We should hunt it down and put a stake through its fucking heart. And so I think there's some creativity around encouraging people who were maybe on the fence to get vaxxed. And my loss is that I think China has the opportunity to come, unfortunately, come out of this pandemic as a new global leader unless we catch up and start going on the offense in manufacturing. Last Kara Swisher · 1:01:56 week though you said they weren't getting their vaccines, they can't travel to Europe. So in that regard Scott Galloway · 1:02:00 Their vaccines aren't as good but they've actually donated substantially more vaccine to other nations than we have. And their Belt and Road Initiative, foreign investment, I think that coming out of this crisis, like coming out of this is the biggest crisis arguably since World War II. It tends to reorder the geopolitical chessboard. And I worry that I think worry and also think it's a huge opportunity. Unfortunately, have not shipped a single donated dose, I don't believe, outside of The US yet. We've promised some, but we haven't actually gotten our act together. And I think not only not only the vaccines, but to take advantage of some of the wonderful organizations, whether it's the Peace Corps or Latter day Saints who had to recall about twenty thousand of the missionaries because of COVID. But to put put Americans out on foreign shores with the best vaccines in the world and show what we're Kara Swisher · 1:02:53 capable know, think we're spending all our time worrying whether Marjorie Taylor Greene's gonna kill us someday or, you know, fighting over nine eleven... Excuse me, January 6 commissions and this and that. We do not have our eye on the ball here. And it's because these lunatics are scaring the bejesus out of the rest of us. Think that's part of it. We... You're right. We don't have our... We're arguing over stuff we shouldn't be arguing over, like kids in trails. Scott Galloway · 1:03:16 We're distracted. I don't know. Let let Just try. Just put the fucking idiot in the corner of the room and ignore them. Kara Swisher · 1:03:22 Yes. Exactly. It's hard. It's hard. We got bigger fish to fry. I think I think when you think about it, the fail... I have to say I do have a fail this week besides the fact that there's no mayor of Easton after next week. But I... You know, I was talking about the AT and T thing earlier. And Mhmm. John Malone, who I think is brilliant Yeah. He said on CNBC today, which I didn't buy the claim, which was John Malone said it was brave for John Stankey for inking the recent deal with Discovery. It was brave of him to do. He got, you know, he essentially said that that it was a good thing, that Malone said it was a good thing that he did, and it was brave of him to do so and Scott Galloway · 1:04:01 good said Malone is about to cash a huge check. Kara Swisher · 1:04:03 I get it. It was just incredible that they let him just say that because, you know, it felt like log rolling in our time. And I just sort of was shocked that he said that, you know. Scott Galloway · 1:04:13 Did you read the article in The Wall Street Journal with the behind the scenes where they went to a they went to a townhouse in the West Village, and there was a picture of Steve McQueen? It literally sounded like Speaking dating. Kara Swisher · 1:04:25 Speaking of dating. Scott Galloway · 1:04:26 It sounded like something out of the Kara Swisher · 1:04:28 Corporate porn. Scott Galloway · 1:04:29 Sixties. It was like Jimmy Gardner meeting Angie Dickinson for a high... It could not have been wider and older. Kara Swisher · 1:04:34 I know. Scott Galloway · 1:04:35 It's like, Kara Swisher · 1:04:35 all these exactly why. I was like, are you kidding? These people aren't capable. Mad men? Literally, Jed Serandos will blow them out of the water and, like, cut them into little pieces. Like, and he's a he's a schmoozer. Let me just say, he... There's... I saw him in the Polo Lounge many times, but he's the guy at Netflix. He's he's the run... Guy running iPhones. I just was like, that was disgusting to me. I agree with you. I agree. Angie Dickinson and James Cook. Scott Galloway · 1:04:56 Seriously. It's like it's like literally they're like, I used to party with these cool cats in Cuba. I mean, they sat... They could not have sounded more fucking older and wider. Jesus Christ. Kara Swisher · 1:05:06 Yeah. Okay. That's my fail. What's your fail? Your fail was that? You said China. Scott Galloway · 1:05:10 China. Seen the new LeBaron? Love it. That's a sweet ride. I mean, god. Kara Swisher · 1:05:16 They did. They sounded terrible. Scott Galloway · 1:05:18 Oh my god. Kara Swisher · 1:05:18 Sent... Also, it was, like, flirty. He sent him a stanky scent to David Zaslow. Yeah. They're little text messages. Scott Galloway · 1:05:26 Their little text messages? Kara Swisher · 1:05:27 Like, I oh my know. I'm never gonna... We're never... David Zaslov will never be on Sway or this show. So may... Maybe you're happy about that. Or John Malone. John Malone is brilliant. I can't believe it. Brave. He was brave of making a mess and Scott Galloway · 1:05:40 then He was cleaning brave it for for bailing out my shitty company for billions. He was brave. Kara Swisher · 1:05:46 Was brave for making a disgusting mess and paying and himself a then cleaning it up. What a brave thing to do. Ugh. God, people. Alright. Angie Dickinson. I really appreciate it. I like that you mentioned Does Angie anyone who's under, like, 50 know who Angie Dickinson is? Scott Galloway · 1:06:05 Police lover. Tull gangster police mama. Kara Swisher · 1:06:07 Say, look that woman up. That was the best show. Piper? Was that her name on it? Pepper. Pepper. Scott Galloway · 1:06:13 Pepper. Yeah. Yeah. No. Agent. Yeah. She was great. Then the Rockford Files. Kara Swisher · 1:06:16 Anyway, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit your questions for the pivot podcast. The link is also in our show notes. — Predictions segment ends — Scott Galloway · 1:06:27 Today's episode was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. It was engineered by Ernie Intertaut. If you like what you heard, please download or follow us. You know all the different places. Kara, I don't know. I I actually think online dating. Yeah. I I don't think it's... I'm not sure it's the technologies. I think it's I think it's us. People. I I think it's us. What do you think? Kara Swisher · 1:06:48 I think it's us with technology. There we have it. Anyway. Scott Galloway · 1:06:52 There we go. Anyways, we'll see you. I hope everyone has a fantastic week and we'll see you again on... When do we come back? When do we do fucking thing? Kara Swisher · 1:07:01 Monday. Oh, okay. Friday. Scott Galloway · 1:07:03 Jesus, where am I? Where am I? Kara Swisher · 1:07:07 Thank you, Rebecca. Jesus. We'll see you guys Friday. [Ad break] Scott Galloway · 1:08:08 online [Ad break]