Pivot · Jan 13, 2023

Live from DLD: Microsoft's AI Future and the FAA Meltdown

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 16:38. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Kara Swisher · 16:38 String cheese. And it wasn't frozen. It was frozen string cheese, and it was all the characters on the sticks of string cheese. And I had to buy them because she screeched until I did. And then I texted Bob Iger. I go, go fuck yourself with this string cheese. That's enough. I spent enough on... Anyway, he enjoyed that. I didn't realize he was wrangling with Nelson Pace. He goes, I'm busy right now. And I'm like, with what? The string cheese is upsetting me. Anyway, let's move on. We're gonna go to our big stories. Artificial intelligence, you just mentioned it. Microsoft is talking about integrating artificial intelligence into its office suites and products. Reports say Microsoft's products such as PowerPoint, Outlook, and Word could incorporate technology from OpenAI, the group behind ChatGPT. Microsoft already uses OpenAI products in its copilot tool, which helps programmers write code. Last week, we heard that ChatGPT potentially could come to the Bing search engine. That's successful piece of shit. So now it could be revived. Bing could... Bing. Bing. Bing. C bomber started... Introduced Bing at one of our conferences and he kept saying throughout the interview, Bing. Bing. It was super weird. But what do you think? What's... Who 's getting the better deal? You seem to think Microsoft is doing well here. Why is OpenAI hugging Microsoft so so much? Scott Galloway · 17:56 I've been... That whole thing, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it and I was watching Sri Ramaswani at Neva talk about this. It seems as if already Sam Altman, who's this really smart guy says that AI by virtue of the technology will likely become a commodity faster and at the end of the day you need the infrastructure and the computing power. Supposedly it's about 2¢ per query of processing power which is seven times what a Google search takes. So if you're going to have hundreds of millions of queries a day, that's real cost and investment. We're going lose about $550,000,000 But if you think about he's going vertical and that is he wants to find somebody who has the processing powder, who has a huge cloud infrastructure and already has a front end monetization tool. So it already struck me that the people who really understand this company are like, we're not going to have much differentiation for very long. We need to vertically integrate forward with a front end business app and sit on top of unbelievable computing power. And I can't help but think the greatest concentration of IQ in history through the sixties, seventies and eighties was NASA because we got the best German scientists out of World War two. But the greatest concentration of IQ ever assembled right now in history is at Google. I wonder what Google is gonna do. Kara Swisher · 19:22 And they they've been eating away at at Google Works pace is taking bites out of Microsoft. Microsoft is still the dominant productivity suite, but there's others. But they've been eating at it. And Google has started to really rein in a lot of its crazy stuff. All his, you know, the moonshot stuff is staying on Scott Galloway · 19:38 the moon. What have you heard about chat, GPT? I'm still I out my hair. Kara Swisher · 19:41 You know, here's what's interesting about it is it's the first time when you think about cryptocurrency, I think it's... I still believe it's just sandbank and feed aside. There's still an important tech... The blockchain stuff is important. We don't know where it's going. With... When the Internet started, someone said to me, I don't get I don't get what it is. I don't get what I do. What is what is it? And I said it's everything. And they're like, what? I go everything. It's... And they're like, what does that mean? I go, I don't know. I don't know what it's gonna make, but it's everything and you can start Scott Galloway · 20:10 It's not like an ad for Bitcoin. Kara Swisher · 20:11 I don't. It's true. But it it... Bitcoin isn't everything. You started to see the uses of it whether it was wet when you got Yahoo, uses uses uses. And then it became... The efficacy became obvious very quickly. Right? Whatever happened to roll out, you're like, oh, I like that. But you didn't know what it was gonna be. And that's how I feel with ChatGPT. I don't know what it's gonna be, but you're already starting to see either entertainment uses, writing press releases. There's all kinds of things it could replace. It's essentially what spreadsheets... Digital spreadsheets did for accounting. You just plug the numbers in and it does it. This is gonna do for text and then photos and stuff like that. And so I don't know what it's gonna do, but it feels like it has efficacy and you can see it at Even if it's stupid and it answers dumbly, that's at the beginning of this. They're like... Someone once said it's... They're like dolphins now and they're gonna surpass human brain ship very soon. But they're they're still dolphins. Right? They're incredibly smart. And so I think it's... We don't know quite what's gonna happen, but I do think it's... You can see you can see in your head where it could work. It could start to begin to... It's not as fuzzy as crypt... Like, am I gonna use cryptocurrency for except for speculative? And I don't feel like doing that. Scott Galloway · 21:24 The the thing we do know will happen is this is the year of AI in terms of fundraising. Just as everyone showed up and Kara Swisher · 21:31 All the money from crypto will Scott Galloway · 21:32 come. In '98 and '99 saying, oh, we're not Williamsonoma, we're williamsonoma.com. I can't imagine the number of name, new companies are going to be AI powered or AI with I don't know if the reality will catch up to the perception, but it's it feels so exciting. It's gonna be a new gold rush in terms of capital. Kara Swisher · 21:48 Yep. And you look at the mental health nonprofit used GPT to provide counseling for 4,000 people before pulling the plug because they said simulated empathy feels weird. You know, I guess. You know, it'll be interesting to see if they could get it right. One of the issues when I was at the MIT Media Lab once, they were using therapy for, robots for therapy and they could never get the eyes right. The eyes were all... The answers were good. The eyes were off. CNET, the the the the website, the news website has been publishing AI written articles since November. And next month, an AI powered chatbot will help a defendant in The US fight a traffic ticket in court. I mean, things like that. Scott Galloway · 22:26 Like, who Kara Swisher · 22:26 would have thought of that? You know, we'll see. I think we're gonna probably go through that bad actor cycle like we did with cryptocurrency. I think this is the story of this year because I think these big companies... By the way, the most dominant people continue to be Apple, Facebook, Meta, Amazon and Google and Microsoft. So it will still be the big companies dominating, but it will be interesting to see innovation. Scott Galloway · 22:48 Yeah, but if you talk about Amazon, Facebook and Google, take Microsoft out. We always talk about big tech as if they're all equivalent. It's really now Big Apple. Kara Swisher · 23:00 But they're headed into the headset. That's what they're going to introduce this year, this headset that costs Scott Galloway · 23:04 Oh my god, what an enormous bag of shit that's going to be. Yeah. I love the notion that people think are under the impression anyone will put anything on their face that must make them more attractive to other people. And the first thing that happens when you put anything on your face from a tech company Yeah. Is it's a prophylactic and you'll never consume the child. Yeah. This will be this will be the Hermes watch. It'll get a ton of press. Much people will try them. You'll get one, and then it'll be in the drawer with your Fitbit and your FuelBand. Kara Swisher · 23:34 Yeah. Could be. I just found my Google Glass the other day. I feel like that was the single greatest line I ever wrote. Although now today, it's not as it seems a little Scott Galloway · 23:42 You're more hopeful though for the Kara Swisher · 23:43 I am, I am, I am. When Google Glass came out, I when Sergei, they he took it to the Victoria's Secret thing and they wore them. Do you remember that they were wearing them and walking down the aisle with them? Scott Galloway · 23:54 Diane von Furstenberg, wasn't it? DVF? Kara Swisher · 23:55 She was there. Yeah. DVF And was and they they they called me and they said, do you think? I said, you've rendered supermodels unfuckable. Nice. Which I think you can't say now. I believe it's cancelable at this point, but oh, well, I just said it. So there you have it. And so I... We'll see where it goes. I do think that actually we'll have applications and I'm very eager to see what Apple does because, you know, we didn't think those air... When when those AirPods came out, even though you go on and on, everyone made fun of them. Yeah. Great product. The AirPod... I I think they will make something worth looking at, and we'll see where it goes from there. We'll be right back with more from the DLD conference. [Ad break] Kara Swisher · 26:25 But let's, let's have another big story. We're gonna talk about the EU. This is not your area of expertise necessarily, but I'm definitely paying attention to regulation. The US and EU are racing to regulate tech giants. This month, European regulators find Meta more than $400,000,000. That's €390,000,000 over privacy violations. Meta says it will appeal. Meanwhile, president Biden, is calling on Republicans and Democrats to unite against what he called big tech abuses and ask for legislation on privacy competition, child safety. Of course, all that legislation was in the US congress and none of it passed last year. And now with the the current, the current the democrat... The democrat republican split, nothing is gonna pass in the house, except for whatever Marjorie Taylor Greene, I'm sure we'll do something against Jewish space lasers this year and take care of that problem. But otherwise, there's nothing gonna happen. The US is in the lead when it comes to Microsoft's pro taker of Activision Blizzard. The FTC is suing to block the deal. EU regulators aren't quite there yet, but that could be a real problem for that deal. Many think it's not gonna go through. Last month, they sent a questionnaire to game developers. So FTC is on the case, but it's... It doesn't look like a great... There's a lot of competition in games, by the way. And then there's TikTok. The president Biden signed a bill banning TikTok on government devices at the end of last year. Meanwhile, TikTok's CEO is on a goodwill tour of the EU addressing reports the company is tracking US journalists. They actually have done that. Should the EU do more to regulate TikTok? The US, you know, they've just created a new China China subcommittee in the house. Scott Galloway · 27:58 So so you're saying a lot. Let's back up. EU regulation. Right? Yep. The regulation that the EU has passed is exponentially has more teeth, more and it's more elegant than anything that has happened in The US. Kara Swisher · 28:10 That is correct. Scott Galloway · 28:12 And you're talking, from what I understand, if I've read of your regulation, is you're demanding interoperability and you're basically saying you're having this really crazy notion that hate speech that is illegal offline is illegal online. It sounds pretty obvious but no one's done it until the EU just now. And this is a big deal and it's also getting around this one problem we faced. And that is Facebook decided ten years ago, that the smartest thing we could do for shareholders was break the law. Oh, we're depressing teens and we know it, lie. And if they find out we're lying and they fine us, okay. Oh, our data is being used to weaponize elections, we could get fined, no problem. We are such a cash volcano that any fine they come up with will not be worth complying with the law. And part of this regulation in the EU says a percentage of their global revenues. So that shit gets real fast. When you start talking about a fine that could be five or 7% of global revenues Kara Swisher · 29:13 It's always been two. Scott Galloway · 29:14 All of a sudden they go, okay, the world just changed for us. We need to start doing these things and it makes sense that you would have more abiding regulation. Why? A third of my class, of my students at NYU will go to Amazon. 10 of them will go to Google. We have huge ups. We're net gainers in The US from big tech. As much as we rail on them, they create ecosystems, a ton of shareholder value, incredible employment, great high... Highly paid jobs. You get all of the calories of big tech. You get the weaponization of election, the coarseness of your discourse, the destruction of jobs, media companies. You get team... You get all of it, but you get none of the great taste. Yep. As far as I know, there aren't that many hospital wings or universities in Munich named after Google or Facebook billionaires. So you get all of the downside and a fraction of the upside, which stiffens the backbone of EU regulators. Yep. And you're gonna see the EU lead in regulation. Yep. Because in The US we have a system, election system, where all you need is to give money to our elected representatives and you make them a compelling offer. I'm gonna give you a lot of money. The fastest expense, growing expense line for big tech is lobbying in Washington. There are more full time lobbyists working for Amazon and living in DC than are sitting US senators. And the value proposition is this, I'm gonna give you a shit ton of money. Okay. What do you want from me? I want nothing. I want you to make sure Kara Swisher · 30:38 nothing And we saw that happening with senator Klobuchar who promised these antitrust bill would pass, the privacy bill would pass, none of them did and they targeted her as someone who's ruining the Internet. And you know it's interesting because the Republicans are sort of anti tech and more focused on China than anything else but very anti tech comparatively and so is the Biden administration and yet nothing happens. They just... There's a lot of noise and not a lot of action. Kevin McCarthy though is quite tight with the tech titans. He's been visiting them and getting money from them. And so the whole thing is is just nothing happens. No legislation happens and no privacy legislation happens. And I think it'll be up to the EU to take care of this honestly. I think that's that's the only thing. And the EU wants to wants to... Is now pushing tech companies around telcos and things like that. And of course, Meta vaguely threatened to leave Europe last year over regulation on moving data out of the EU. Really kind of ridiculous. In any case, keep going EU because We Scott Galloway · 31:34 just talk about TikTok because I know there's a lot of regulators here and a lot of people who have influence. Yep. I love TikTok. I think it's amazing. I'm a huge consumer, but I think it's just incredible. I think it's one of the largest threats to democracy we've had in the last fifty years. And if you believe like me, there is no separation between the CCP and a Chinese company, where they can disappear for a CEO for four weeks. Imagine Jeff Bezos just disappeared for four weeks and then showed up in Tokyo and said, I've taken up painting. Yeah. Right? That's what they've done. Kara Swisher · 32:05 Yep. Scott Galloway · 32:05 So if you, like me, believe there is no separation between the CCP and Chinese companies. If you believe that China has a priority or a strategic imperative to make the West, Europe, and The US less powerful, and you recognize that all of our children, all the young adults younger than 28 spend more time on TikTok than every other streaming media company combined? Kara Swisher · 32:29 Hours a day. Scott Galloway · 32:31 Wouldn't they be stupid? Wouldn't they be ignorant to not put their thumbs on the scales of anti western content? Income inequality, systemic racism, democracy doesn't work. That's what I would do. This is a... TikTok either needs to be spun to Western assets in those domains or it should be banned full stop. And we keep talking about espionage. It's not an espionage tool. That's what Facebook is for. It's the ultimate propaganda tool. We are gonna raise a generation of civic, military, government, and business leaders that feel a little shittier about Germany, London, France, and US because the CCP is gonna Kara Swisher · 33:11 Well, it's school systems. The government Scott Galloway · 33:13 anti western content. It should be banned. — Predictions segment begins — Kara Swisher · 33:15 The government the government had moved to take it off of all government phones, the use of it on government phones and used by government officials. The second thing is in in... Across The US, there's lawsuits right now of using it in schools or or Seattle is has a lawsuit. We'll talk about that more in London. But it's really... There's there's growing controversy around the uses of it and that it leaves even out the addictive nature of it, which I think is... The problem is it's a great product and it's a... It's an addictive product. You can't stop looking at it. So they've perfected that in the ways other companies haven't. In any case, let's finish with predictions and we have time for a few questions. Predictions, go ahead, go for it. Scott Galloway · 33:54 So I have two predictions. I tried to do some research on EU based tech companies. Germany is falling behind. There's just no getting around it. The rise of China hasn't hurt US, it's hurt Europe. All the biggest companies in the world, it used to be US and then Europe, now it's US and China. We still have as many unicorns. China's rise has really come at the expense of the EU and Germany, despite having a much larger economy, has half the market capitalization of its tech companies of The UK. I don't know why, but clearly there's something not working in terms of you look at how outstanding the culture and the education and the work ethic in Germany relative to your tech output, it's just not working. But I did find one company and this is my prediction. The biggest tech IPO in The EU, probably won't be in '23, it'll be in '24, is a German company. Does anyone wanna guess? And I I might not be right, but this is my prediction. The biggest tech IPO in The EU will be a German company. Salonis. 400,000,000 in revenue last year, growing 50% this year, 90% logo renewal, which is no churn, 140% dollar renewal, meaning everybody that renews is spending 50% more, business performance software. This company, every metric... I spent a lot of time thinking about software and investing. I've never seen anything like this in a private company. So I think this is gonna be, I hope this inspires a lot of follow on investments, a lot of VCs pop in. Kara Swisher · 35:20 Although difficult because look, they were just showing Stripe and Instacart are way off. They were supposed to go public. All these tech stocks are down. It's gonna be hard. Scott Galloway · 35:29 Oh, look, the markets are cyclical. The wind is not, the wind is in our face now in the world of tech. But when the wind comes back, the great companies are still there. This is a company that every every metric I've seen is just is just killing it. It's just doing really well. Do you have a prediction? I have one more. Kara Swisher · 35:47 Sam Bankenfried is not... Is guilty. Go ahead. Yeah. Scott Galloway · 35:50 Will he be found guilty? Yes. Yeah, think you're right. Kara Swisher · 35:53 Yeah. His his his unmade bed, three year old father boy act is getting very exhausting. He's a 30 year old man who stole money from people. Oh, by the way, Sam Bankenfried said he's not guilty. Scott Galloway · 36:07 Well then. So my other prediction is that in fifty years when we look back on the West, supposedly at the end of your life, the thing you regret the most is that you were so hard on yourself. You wish you'd be more forgiving of yourself. And I think we're gonna wish we'd been more forgiving of ourselves and acknowledge the best trade in 2023 will be the capital, the weapons, the intelligence we are supplying to Ukraine. For just 6% of the military's budget, we are kicking a murderous autocrat in the nuts over and over and over. We have removed 50% of the kinetic power of Russia. We have basically run the world's longest advertisement that Europe and The US, when they join hands and actually agree on shit, we are an insurmountable force. This is... We are gonna look back. We are gonna look back and I think and maybe hopefully sooner and say, why didn't we celebrate each other and celebrate Europe as a union again? NATO is out of a brain coma, right? We are no one, no one. By the way, no boots on the ground from Germany and The US. That's kind of a free gift with purchase, right? We are gonna look back and think this was one of the greatest accomplishments of the West of the last century. Kara Swisher · 37:24 Can I just say though, I just interviewed your friend, Ian Bremmer, and his top risk is Russia turning into a rogue state? Scott Galloway · 37:29 Going nuclear. They're like Iran. I Ian on yesterday. Yeah, I agree. Kara Swisher · 37:33 Yeah. He's That's the danger. Anyway, that's a good prediction. So we're gonna get some questions from the audience. Oh, my other prediction is George Santos is lying about quitting. That's our hope that... He said he's not quitting but he's lying about that. Scott Galloway · 37:49 Things were so much better in Germany when George Santos was chancellor. Kara Swisher · 37:52 He'd be so... He was chancellor. No. He was... He was he's a congressman who literally every time he says something, it's a the latest one is he's a volleyball champion. Like, how... Honest? I mean, I have to give it to him. He's an excellent liar. Scott Galloway · 38:07 Anyway, they don't know who he is. The congressman just lied about everything I got. Yeah. — Predictions segment ends — Kara Swisher · 38:11 We'll be right back with more Pivot in Germany. [Ad break] Kara Swisher · 39:06 Questions from the audience. Let's go. Oh, and by the way, I'll say this. A fan named Andreas couldn't make it tonight because he has a daughter in the hospital. Get well. We wanna say that to him, his daughter. All right, questions. Let's go. Speaker · 39:18 Hi, I'm Eva Rappaport from Munich. Yeah. I run an intercultural, country role, a youngster network. And I would like to understand why the world is not supporting Iran people in their fight for their freedom. Kara Swisher · 39:37 That is an excellent question. There's a lot of attention. It's something we've talked a lot on our various shows about and I have to say, I think The US press is actually doing a a pretty good job covering it and especially the executions and the the sentencings. Just recently, I've noticed there's an uptake in media coverage of this. But you know, there's... Because we'd rather look at some ridiculous circus in the house over voting and whether Matt Gaetz is smiling or not and that kind of thing. And so what's happened with at least the Republican Party in The US, this is just from a US perspective, is that they don't have... The focus is on so many other things including the k... Political chaos in The US that they're not focusing in on what's happening in Iran, and so there's not a... And then there's Ukraine, and then there's the weather stuff and the energy crisis and everything else. And so there's risk after risk and it gets pushed further down the list. That's my impression. I have noticed an uptake especially as they become more and more murderous. That's all you could say. They're murderous rogue thugs. They're getting more attention for it. I'm not sure there's much we can do about it, especially since they're aligned with Russia now in such a significant way. But Scott? Speaker · 40:52 I I don't think I don't I Scott Galloway · 40:53 don't think the world is missed that you see news about Russia and you see men fleeing and then you look at around and you see women taking huge risks and, you know, trying to inspire, a revolution, inspire a better world. I went to UCLA. I lived with my two roommates from Iranian. I've never understood why The US and Iran aren't great allies. The Iranians I knew in LA felt more American than Americans. I mean, just... I felt like this was such a culture that felt so similar to me as America. But... And I I... We don't have time or it's dangerous, but I guess the question... I feel like your question was pregnant with a comment and that is, should we be doing? Because my sense is we put in pretty harsh restrictions and sanctions against Iran. I mean, should we be, should our security apparatus be more aggressive? Would you wanna see us take military intervention? I guess the question is what Kara Swisher · 41:50 What do we do? Scott Galloway · 41:50 What should we be doing that we're not? Kara Swisher · 41:52 Yeah. Yeah. It should be a more unified approach would be guess. Alright. Another question. We have time for two more. Speaker · 41:58 Hi. Clyde Hutchinson. Long time listener, first time caller. Just say Elon Musk disappeared today. Kara Swisher · 42:07 Okay. Speaker · 42:07 What would yourself and Scott do with all your spare time? Kara Swisher · 42:12 You know, we had... Didn't really talk about him that much today. Just... He happens to be an OpenAI investor. That's all. He's been... He hasn't been quiet. He said a number of... I think people are getting tired of him actually. Even though I I hate to tell you people write us and say stop talking about Elon. But when we do, the numbers are crazy when... It's like Trump, you know, stop talking about Trump, but then everybody wants to read about him and that's an unfortunate thing. I think the problem is he is really, in many ways a visionary and that... Like Tesla and the Rockets and even Starlink, no matter what you think. The geofencing he's doing, which I think is appalling. There's so many astonishing things and then this jerk shows up on the other half. So I think it's difficult and I think his story is a lot bigger than you think because he's involved in foreign policy, know, he's involved in space travel and national security. It's more than just him being a jerk on Twitter. It is a bigger story. So I don't think he's going to disappear. I think though there is a good, there's an interesting chance if he becomes... The question is is he like a Thomas Edison or is he Howard Hughes? Right? I think that's real and you know how that ended. Charles Charles Lindbergh. You know, you don't know what's gonna happen to him. The The US has been littered with visionaries like this. Scott Galloway · 43:32 But I got the sense from your question. You feel like we talk about Elon too much. Is that accurate? If I read into the second layer of your question. You're worried about us? We're fine without it. I invite that. I need more people. Kara Swisher · 43:45 Yeah, we'd like more characters. We were thrilled with ChatGPT. Scott Galloway · 43:47 Let me just comment. On the ground, the biggest impact on business, I think in tech is another is gonna be is inspired by an action of Elon Musk. That is Kara Swisher · 44:00 Yeah. Scott Galloway · 44:00 You have to acknowledge and every CEO in tech has noticed that Twitter, as much as I was hoping the site would crash, is working. And it's a minimum viable product right now or an acceptable product with 75% fewer employees. So you got to imagine in every boardroom Kara Swisher · 44:19 They love them. Scott Galloway · 44:20 They're going, okay. What if we took our employees down 20 or 30% and managed to hold on to all the revenues? And this is a prediction I have for 2023, do a predictions tag. You're gonna see revenue growth decline in big tech and they're gonna have the most profitable quarters in history because they're looking at Twitter and go, if he can do this with 75% less people, can't we do what we're doing with 20% Kara Swisher · 44:44 we don't have to tweet terrible things. Know, I mean, I think he's... They love him. Trust me. Those tech CEOs love what he's doing. They don't wanna do it themselves necessarily, but they will do the actions, not the not the crazies... The crazy stuff. It's all his. Alright. Two more quick questions. Right there. This woman right here. Speaker · 45:03 Hi. Huge fan of the show, Giselle. Kara Swisher · 45:05 Hi, Giselle. Speaker · 45:06 So I'm an executive coach and my clients are all dealing with questions very often of mental health. Scott, you've spoken a lot about it. You're a huge advocate. As we think beyond now, how do we take mental health into consideration for the decisions that we're making and the people that we're affecting? Kara Swisher · 45:22 That's a great question. It's an important one. Scott and I were just talking about it before. My son is doing his college things and he's just too wound up and they just had a mental health day at school and he's always like, why are they having mental health days and not incorporating it into the entire scheme instead of talking about it? Which was interesting because anyway, go ahead. Scott Galloway · 45:43 Yeah, I think a lot about this. I struggle with it. I think we've... One of the wonderful things about what's happened in the West over the last, just as cancer was destigmatized, I think mental health is in the process of being destigmatized and people are open and can talk about it. However, I would argue it still hasn't been destigmatized for men. I think one way to take your career path off of kind of being a CEO as a male is to talk openly about your struggles with mental health. I don't think that's a good resume builder. So I still think there's work to do from a public perception standpoint. But I also believe that social media and there's evidence my colleague at NYU, Jonathan Haid, has shown that about the time social media went on mobile, you saw a dramatic uptick specifically with young girls in hospital admissions and self harm and self cutting. And what's the point of any of this bullshit if our kids aren't mentally well? So I think we have to hold social media accountable and I think we all need to just be... I can't tell you whenever I talk about the mental health struggles I've had, how many men reach out to me. And I'm talking about men who just never talk about it before. Kara Swisher · 46:53 You can have a men's movement. You could be like Jordan Peterson. Scott Galloway · 46:56 Thanks for Kara Swisher · 46:59 that. Just thinking about it out loud, sorry. Scott Galloway · 47:01 Got it. And so it just, it's very basic. When I'm talking about mental health, I try to do this and it's tough for me because in general, I don't like people. I'm trying to be open to new friendships. I'm trying to reach out and say, hey, what's going on? I'm trying to be nice. Do you want to grab coffee? I think especially men, I think we need to do a better job of like being open to new relationships. Kara Swisher · 47:20 I was just gonna make a friend for Scott in London. I'm making him go to dinner to meet someone. Scott Galloway · 47:26 She set up a play date for me. Kara Swisher · 47:28 I'm be the final test. Scott Galloway · 47:29 I'm with Toby yet. Speaker · 47:31 Selena Milanoich, a biomedical engineer working at Siemens. And my question is about digital health. We made a few comments earlier about the importance of very strict and very smart ways of regulating the topics relating digital and AI. However, when it comes to healthcare, this might be really a showstopper for Europe. So countries for example, like The US or other countries in Asia might actually develop a lot quicker than we can in Europe because they have a little more flexibility and leeway. So should we have a double standard in creating, let's say regulation for companies that are using artificial intelligence for entertainment versus companies that are, let's say, using AI for health? Yes, I do. Kara Swisher · 48:19 And I think you're wrong. I think The US is quite strict on digital health issues. They may be porous, that's different. That's about systems, but it's quite strict. That's the one area, that's why it hasn't developed as quickly. We have to be thinking hard about the privacy issues around health. I mean, really, I mean, Amazon knows more about your mental health than you realize, given what you buy and things like that. But I think it's... I think definitely stuff around entertainment should be different than it should be around mental health. That said, all of it is data for the system. Right? Anything you do, you'll be tracked the rest of your lives. And so it all goes into health. Whatever you eat, whatever you buy, whatever you go, whatever you do. And so we can't think of it not as an ecosystem because it's all part of the same things. But regulators should be very smart about healthcare, travel, EVs. They have to get smarter and it will involve a lot more regulation. Last word? Scott Galloway · 49:13 I do think you wanna on the side. I hate to say this, but section two thirty and a lack of regulation in the nineties was probably the right call for tech. And it resulted in some externalities, but we failed to then implement regulate... Regulation to get it in control. And I was fascinated with the fact that the EU has fallen. I mean, your biggest market cap tech company is that chip company in The Netherlands. The biggest one here is SAP and they're like 15% of the valuation of big tech. And I'm like, what? It doesn't make any sense. You got an educated populace, you're digitally very savvy, it just doesn't make any sense. And one of the things that kept coming up is that a lot of regulation that tries to envision and put in place safeguards. Kara Swisher · 50:00 Before And things Scott Galloway · 50:02 so it's a balance, but the, there's no doubt about it, the outcomes appear to favor a lack of regulation being a little bit more promiscuous in terms of what your innovators can do. Kara Swisher · 50:13 Yep. Anyway, thank you so much. Sorry we went over time. We really appreciate it. Speaker · 50:18 Thank you Munich. Kara Swisher · 50:20 Just a quick programming note, our next episode of Pivot will tape in London and will come out Wednesday the eighteenth instead of our usual Tuesday drop. But I promise it will be worth the wait. Scott Galloway · 50:29 That was Pivot live at the DLD conference in Munich. Today's show was produced by Lara Naaman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intratot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Miel Savario. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. [Ad break]