Pivot · Oct 4, 2019

Mark Zuckerberg’s leaky staff and the silver lining to WeWork’s downfall

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 30:56. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Scott Galloway · 30:56 Around his own family. It's just... It's it's a total break of code. Kara Swisher · 31:00 Toxic narcissist. How else would he do this? He doesn't care about his kids. Scott Galloway · 31:03 A tarsicist. Kara Swisher · 31:04 A tarsicist. Then Scott Galloway · 31:05 my other loss is that people... Or I don't think the media's been focusing around We on what is kind of a... In my view, one of the more interesting stories, and that is just thirty days ago, there were three to 5,000 new millionaires. And that is the employees that had been at We longer than two or three years probably all had at least a million dollars in equity value based on the valuation they were certain they were going public at. And I've been in the... I've been in these shoes before. When I was in my early thirties and Red Envelope was supposed to go public at a 6 to $800,000,000 valuation, it is impossible when you get near the goal line not to start counting your money. It's impossible. Kara Swisher · 31:40 Yeah. I heard from someone from WME this week about that. They're like, Scott Galloway · 31:44 I was buying a house. Well, it's impossible Not Kara Swisher · 31:48 buying a house. Scott Galloway · 31:48 No. It's impossible for your husband not to be looking at bigger houses. It's impossible not to call your parents and say, hey. Let's start looking into that family cruise and reunion we've always wanted. It's impossible to think, wouldn't it be great to get a two bedroom and think about another kid? And you can imagine three to 5,000 people have literally gone from say 1 to $10,000,000 in wealth they had to zero. And it's it's like, oh, well, okay. It's easy to be cynical. It couldn't happen to a nicer group of people, but you know what? It's real... That's a lot of heartache, and you're about to see an amount... A level of animosity unleashed. Think about this. I'm a I'm a nice person. I work hard. I make a $130,000 as a VP of operations at this cool company called We, which after taxes isn't a lot of money to barely enough money to think about a kid living in Hoboken or Brooklyn. And all of a sudden, oh, but wait, I have $3,000,000 in We and I've worked my ass off for the last three years and listened to all this Jesus talk, but it's finally paying off. I'm finally gonna have a nest egg here. Oh, wait, am I gonna have health insurance? I mean, that's the question now. Am I gonna have to apply for COBRA to have health insurance? So, there's I think the real toll here, everyone's talking about SoftBank, who gives a fuck? They're gonna be fine. Kara Swisher · 33:01 If they lose money. Scott Galloway · 33:02 It's the the real tragedy here, if there is a tragedy, is is is the employees of WE who are really, I would imagine, really feeling hurt right now. Kara Swisher · 33:10 Have ruined the Brooklyn real estate market Scott Galloway · 33:13 Do you think? Kara Swisher · 33:14 Single handedly. Single handedly. Scott Galloway · 33:15 Do you think? Kara Swisher · 33:16 I feel great because I can buy there now. But here's the deal. I... It's not just them. It's also like I've heard from people at William Morris and some of the other companies, you know, that have seen real declines. Scott Galloway · 33:27 We never talked about that. It was a... It's a collection of great assets. Yeah. That aren't profitable. So I was always... I always thought, how does this thing get out? Kara Swisher · 33:37 Yeah. That's Scott Galloway · 33:39 of adventures... Hollywood adventures in private equity and rolling up. It'll be interesting to see... There's actually a clause in there, if I read the s one correctly, that their core asset, which is the UFC, the, you know, the cage fighting, is if they didn't get it public, it reverts back to KKR, I think. And that's kind of the crown jewel. So it's gonna be very interesting what happens there over the next several months. I'm I'm Yeah. Kara Swisher · 34:04 They've gotta pay the agents more. There's a lot more... There's gotta be a lot more investment just like with Oui. You know, these agents can go anywhere. I think they're nervous. And by the way, this is not a group of people that is... Likes to... You know, will just tuck their tails in and be sad, you know, you know, at a coffee shop in Brooklyn that they didn't get to have the, you know, house they wanted, the apartment they wanted. This is a group of people who are super aggressive that don't like Scott Galloway · 34:24 to And smart. And by the way, Veritan, in full disclosure, I'm represented by WME. If you are wondering why on earth a guy like me has representation, trust your instincts. But it's kinda... It makes sense. They represent Oprah, Adele, and a dog and a dog. Kara Swisher · 34:40 They... I had meetings Scott Galloway · 34:40 with them. There you go. WME. Kara Swisher · 34:42 I had meetings with them. I... I'm not represented by anybody. I've had meetings with all of them. I don't wanna be represented by Scott Galloway · 34:46 Oh, you have scary representation, and her name is Kara Swisher. Kara Swisher · 34:49 That's right. I just feel like every time I'm in these meetings, I'm like, I'm smarter than you. Yeah. Like, I Scott Galloway · 34:53 don't know. I don't Kara Swisher · 34:54 want out of date. They, like, cut you, don't they? They bring you special drinks and stuff like that. Scott Galloway · 34:58 They're actually super smart people. Super smart, creative, and, you know, and they see Kara Swisher · 35:03 I like the I like the deputy people. I I do. I I just... I don't care. Scott Galloway · 35:07 You know what they do? You know what they do that's interesting? And this is what's interesting about representation of any sort. It's easier for other people to fight for you than you sometimes. It's easier for them to have interesting or difficult conversations, and also a really good fiduciary or evangelist for you, whether it's a mentor, whether it's an agent, they can see you in a different light. And that is not not even necessarily a better light, but they see you in a different light. The reality is Kara Swisher · 35:30 people fighting for me? Scott Galloway · 35:31 Oh, Kara, everyone needs people fighting for you. I'm like the Irishman. Everybody needs people fighting for me. Kara Swisher · 35:36 I wanna see that movie so badly. Scott Galloway · 35:37 Everybody needs someone fighting for them. And Kara Swisher · 35:40 Alright. Okay. So you say. Not Kara Swisher. In any case, my fail the week, I I wrote a column in the New York Times about, mister Trump on Twitter. Now interestingly, I didn't say for them to kick them off, but everybody took it that way, which was fascinating. I just suggested that he's a dangerous Scott Galloway · 35:56 Your article is getting a lot of pushback. It It's not just pushback. You wrote that... Summarize for the people out there. I'm gonna represent you. I'm gonna pretend I'm Erica who fights for you every day. Tell us about that article. Tell us about that that seminal piece that's created all this stir. Kara Swisher · 36:12 I was just making the point that he's continually violating it, and he does... This one that he did sort of halfway with the with the with the pastor, you know, using his talking about civil wars was dangerous. And, like, think about it. Think about what you're allowing your platform to be used for. And then last night, did it that it's a coup, an irregular impeachment inquiry, which is completely normal. Scott Galloway · 36:34 Yeah. Kara Swisher · 36:34 It's not completely normal, but it's not out out of bounds of this country. It's it's done in the correct process just like the whistleblower is, has been doing things the correct way. He's saying words like coup on Twitter. The president is is is... I'm just saying this is this... We're in a different zone, and maybe you should, maybe we should think hard about what this means. And everybody came in. There wasn't a lot. There was there was also support of it. It's really interesting. Kamala Harris, for example, was like, kick him off Twitter. But other people had good ideas. Maybe limit his likes. Maybe not limit retweets. Maybe do something to indicate that this this kind of language... Like, the president The States saying something's a coup that is a... That is is is dangerous. And it it goes... You can just look at any of the rules of Twitter that he's, you know, he's... What he's done. And, you know, I'm not saying it's an easy situation, and I and I wrote that they'd be daunted by the incredible responsibility. And so I just I just want people to think about what is happening here because, essentially, they're they're... It's it's been hijacked by those who wanna take, as I said, advantage of its porous and sloppy rules and poorly enforced rules. And so it's just an interesting situation, and it's scary. And I wanted to point it out, and then everyone's got on their high horse whether they're like, first amendment, which I'm like, it doesn't apply to Twitter. Like, I just... Have to sit there and explain people what the first amendment is, which is exhausting. And then free speech, and I'm like, not so much. It's not really a thing, actually. And then you have others that say knock them off at Twitter. I just wanna hear all the the things. I was just trying to cause a ruckus, which I which I think I did for this. Scott Galloway · 38:09 You right now remind me of Toronto, Denver, and Columbus, Ohio when they submitted when they submitted their RFP or their proposal to be the h q two of Amazon, and it's just so adorable that you think that you have any chance this is gonna happen. Kara Swisher · 38:23 Oh, I don't think it's gonna happen. No. I do not think it's gonna happen. Scott Galloway · 38:26 All you need is a stock chart of Twitter from the IPO to Donald Trump's election. It's basically gets cut in half, and since the day he was elected, it's doubled in value. Kara Swisher · 38:36 Yeah. But look what happened when I started suggesting regulation four years ago. Donald Trump Scott Galloway · 38:40 has given Jack Dorsey a $500,000,000. Every employee at Twitter is gonna go into that voting booth I want them to feel bad. Gonna pull Trump. Kara Swisher · 38:48 No. I'm gonna tell you, I want them to feel bad. I want them to feel terrible. I want them to feel awful about what's happening on that thing. And that... That's my job. I'm I'm just gonna point it out. Scott Galloway · 38:56 I am so addicted to Twitter. You're not addicted to Twitter. Am okay myself, but for Kara Swisher · 39:00 political party. If it went away tomorrow, I'd be fine. Like, I don't care. Like, it's... I like it. But, you know, it's like I liked a lot of things. And so I think that they... I think it's just an interesting thing just to... You're, like, hyper cynical. I think there are... Once you start, like Hyper cynical. You suggested the Scott Galloway · 39:15 math I have people fighting for me, Kara. Kara Swisher · 39:18 No. I'm just saying you suggested WeWork's math was off, and look what happened. I suggested a couple years ago that maybe tech responsibility is something we should think about and continue to bang on that job and look where we are. I think we do have a Scott Galloway · 39:30 fucking nowhere. Yeah. Look where we are. Kara Swisher · 39:31 You're wrong. Scott Galloway · 39:32 Bang louder. Bang louder. You need representatives banging with you. Kara Swisher · 39:36 No. We need champions. That's everybody an agent. Ugh. God. Why would I pay him Scott Galloway · 39:40 at 15%? I I hate to you. Kara Swisher · 39:43 Unless I have to, like a lawyer. Unless I have to, I'm not hiring. Scott Galloway · 39:46 That's scary. Kara Swisher · 39:46 I hire smart people who work with me. That's what I do. That's not to say. I don't have smart people. Anyway, we're Scott Galloway · 39:52 not gonna argue about this. You need to Kara Swisher · 39:53 rescue mud from Puerto Rico and everything. And down all day. Scott Galloway · 39:56 That's what you need. Yeah. That's exactly what I need. At this — Predictions segment begins — Kara Swisher · 39:59 point You need a Great Dane is what you need. Now predictions. Predictions. Scott Galloway · 40:03 Awesome. Okay. So I'm the I'm the one trick pony here. In the next sixty days, we have a bankruptcy at WE. Kara Swisher · 40:11 Okay. Scott Galloway · 40:12 And so sixty days bankruptcy. Kara Swisher · 40:14 Alright. And then what is the next, Jesus founder that's gonna be ousted? Scott Galloway · 40:19 You know, that's a really... I I read that in the in the script. I don't know. I haven't... I mean, I've been so focused on... This is, know, the right now there really is only one Jesus, and he's in, you know, the Unicorn Protection Program. We haven't we haven't seen or heard much from him. You know these people better than I do. Is there anyone that kind of is guilty? I I call it the Yoga Babble Index. Is there any company or or individual who you think is is kind of off the Richter scale in terms of their level of ratio of bullshit. You know what it... Companies used to have numbers in the narrative. So someone someone accused Mark Benioff of this yoga babble and talking about society, but Yeah. When you when you deliver the numbers first Kara Swisher · 40:58 He delivers the numbers. Yeah. Scott Galloway · 40:59 You have the right to engage in some yoga babble, and it's actually a good thing. It's numbers then narrative, and what a lot of young CEOs in the unicorn era have have flipped is they think they can skip the numbers part and move right to the narrative around improving the world. But do you see that ratio of Yoga Babble... What company are you Kara Swisher · 41:18 looking at now? Yoga Babble or not? Which one are you like, mm-mm. No. No. No. What's your... Scott Galloway · 41:22 So the company I would love to see numbers on is Palantir. Yeah. I would be very curious to see what that looks like, and I'd love to see the s one on that. Kara Swisher · 41:33 We will. Maybe. Scott Galloway · 41:34 WME didn't get out. I didn't think that was I didn't think that was Yoga Babble. I thought that was just as collection of assets that... They were trying to pull a WPP where they smooth out a bunch of great assets, but the problem was WPP was very profitable and WME wasn't. I just couldn't figure that out. Peloton is probably gonna get pelted, kind of the... It's a great company. It's it's wildly overvalued. But I don't see... I'm trying to think if there's another company that's engaging in this sort of yoga babble. And I don't... I haven't identified it. I haven't seen the next one. And also, I wanna... Kara Swisher · 42:05 Well, Uber. You've been whacking at Uber quite Scott Galloway · 42:06 a Well, that's old news. That thing's off that thing's off 50 to 80% in the next twenty four months because they've gotta maintain the growth story, and there's — Predictions segment ends — Kara Swisher · 42:13 Who's a gonna play... Ronnie Mola Vermico asked on Twitter who he will play Adam Neumann in the movie, and one of our producers, Eric Johnson, said it should be Adam Driver who plays Kaili Lena to star with. Scott Galloway · 42:22 That's perfect. Kara Swisher · 42:23 You like that? Scott Galloway · 42:24 That's perfect. I like it. Although, I'm absolutely lobbing my... Or throwing my hat in. Wanna play Rebecca Newman. You think I'd be an awesome Rebecca Newman? Seriously, look at me. Imagine me with black hair and a and a like a dress. By the way, I have more legs than a bucket of chicken as a woman. I have perfect legs for a woman. Anyways... And I just wanna be in this scene where she meets with people for five minutes and says, I don't like your energy. You're fired. I like that. I don't know if that's mythology. Kara Swisher · 42:51 I think you do that already. I gotta get... I gotta do an investigative look into Scott Galloway's company. I'm gonna talk to your employees and see what they have to say. Scott Galloway · 42:58 Chipotle, after hours of little Cialis. That's about it. That's about it. Kara Swisher · 43:03 You in the movie. Who's gonna play Scott Galloway in the movie? If you could pick. And it's not Scott Galloway. Scott Galloway · 43:08 Bruce Dern. We're bringing back Bruce Dern. You don't know Bruce Dern? Kara Swisher · 43:11 Of course I do. That's perfect. Scott Galloway · 43:12 Coming home? Yeah. Know. I've... Everyone said that... Says that. Or either him or we're bringing back underrated tennis star be good too. Lindahl. Either Ivan Lindahl or Bruce Stern, the big dog story. Kara Swisher · 43:22 Ivan Lindahl? Scott Galloway · 43:23 Yeah. And by the way, not that I'm obsessed with tennis player? Remember him? Yes. Let's get creative. You need a representative to be creative. See you in a different light. That's right. Kara Swisher · 43:33 Oh my god. What? He worked for Ari Emanuel? He calls Scott Galloway · 43:36 me now and again. You know? Does he? Kara Swisher · 43:37 Like, he's a funny guy. I'm thinking of bringing him back to code this Scott Galloway · 43:40 year because he was so crazy when he was there, but I think maybe not so much that he's gonna wanna talk right this year. Like the idea of the two of you next to each other. That's definitely a chalk. Kara Swisher · 43:48 You would have been a bit too Scott Galloway · 43:49 that one. Oh, yeah. That's right. No. Always say that. Scare the Kara Swisher · 43:53 shit out of you. Scott Galloway · 43:54 You always promise that. So Kara Swisher, what are you up to? We're talking about code. Code's like seven months off, you're already pimping it. Kara Swisher · 43:59 I'm already pimping it. It's... I I I am working on that. I'm doing lots of stuff. I'm I'm I'm gonna have a baby soon. Not on me, though. Scott Galloway · 44:07 But my god. Just think that's crazy. Kara Swisher · 44:08 I'm I'm go... I'm doing a lot. I'm doing tons and tons of interviews. I got... We got a live pivot in New York in two weeks, I think. We've got a live pivot in San Francisco. It's pretty much Scott Galloway and the baby. That is really my life at this point. It's a sad situation. Scott Galloway · 44:24 Feel warm all over when you said that. That was nice. Thank you. Kara Swisher · 44:28 And only one of them is whiny, crying, and spits up all the time. Scott Galloway · 44:32 There you go. They're both adorable, though. They're both adorable. That's exciting. Exciting for you. Exciting for you. Kara Swisher · 44:41 That's what you tell the dog and Scott Cowley. Sit. Scott Galloway · 44:43 Alright. Enough of us. Sick of us, and I love us. Kara Swisher · 44:46 Alright. Scott Galloway · 44:47 We gotta obliterate our peace out here. Wrap it up. Bring it home. Kara Swisher · 44:50 I've gotta go out and buy canned food for my civil war twenty twenty bunker. Anyway, I will talk to you next week. I'm so excited for you and your dog and everything else. And and, really, you did a great job on WeWork. I I I kid all much. But, really, it's a it's a it's a public service way at you pointing that out. Scott Galloway · 45:07 Yeah. Right? And us Public service. Yeah. Think you're being generous with thank you. Kara Swisher · 45:11 Galloway. I salute you. Yeah. Thank you so much. Scott Galloway · 45:14 Thank you, Kara. Kara Swisher · 45:18 Today's show was produced by Erica Anderson and Eric Johnson. Thanks also to Rebecca Sananis, Rebecca Castro, Drew Burrows, and Nishat Kerwa. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. If you like this week's episode, leave us a review. If you have suggestions for what you wanna hear us talk about on the future show, send us an email, pivot@voxmedia.com. We gotta bring back some reader mail soon. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.