Pivot · Jul 12, 2022

Twitter and Elon Head to Court, The Uber Files, and Guest Mark Leibovich

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 41:44. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Guest · 41:44 Like, I'm dead. But now I don't have... Larry King has nowhere to go. And I think that was a working title for a while. But, essentially, it's sort of the same dynamic with with people in the public eye, people of great wealth, people of great power. It becomes an addiction. Kara Swisher · 41:57 They also think the rules don't apply to them. Right? The rules don't apply. We were just talking about Elon in that same genre. Let me get back to the book, though. It's the... It is the same. It's the power dynamics, but whether it's Bob Kraft or any of them. So do any of the Republicans you've spoken to actually want Trump back in the White House? You you actually said they want him dead, essentially, die Scott Galloway · 42:16 Oh, yeah. Kara Swisher · 42:16 Go away. Yeah. There's a Republican And dead would work. Guest · 42:19 There Dead would work. This is just so we're clear. This is not me talking. This is a republican congressman saying to me, look. We have no plan about how to deal with this guy going forward just like we did in two years ago. Our only plan is just sitting around waiting for him to die. And I was like, are you serious? He goes, I am a 100% serious. That is our only plan. Kara Swisher · 42:36 I've heard that. Guest · 42:36 And, yes. I mean, it's Maybe he'll die. Maybe he'll Kara Swisher · 42:39 die. I was like, okay. Guest · 42:41 You know, profiles and courage right here. Just sit around. Just do that plan. I mean, you know, Liz Cheney, I mean, at great expense to her. I mean, her career, at least in the Republican party, is pretty much done. But, you know, and you could say, oh, well, got a profile in courage award at the Kennedy Library in Boston a month ago, and then she got another award at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley a couple weeks ago. I mean, and Yeah. Kara Swisher · 43:04 She'll get a lot of those. Guest · 43:05 Yeah. So she should. But, you know, what's that gonna get you in in the real world? I mean, I, you know, I... I'm all for it, but it's Kara Swisher · 43:12 just Board seats? Yes. Sure. She'll be fine. Guest · 43:16 You know, she also has a security Kara Swisher · 43:17 Possible presidential run. Guest · 43:19 Oh, absolutely. Kara Swisher · 43:19 Possible presidential run. Guest · 43:20 Yeah. In which she could probably get 15% of the Republican vote and, you know, and be great, though. I'd love to see your voice in there. Scott Galloway · 43:28 But, Mark, as you talk to these people, did you did you get a sense for who they would like to see in that position? Guest · 43:34 Not Donald Trump. I mean, I think, you know, as a default, it's a very lazy default. They say Ron DeSantis, but they don't know what Ron DeSantis Kara Swisher · 43:39 is. Guest · 43:40 They don't like him. Mean, people... Yes. Two Republican congressmen who's and women who served with him, this guy is a weird dude. He does not scale well. He does not wear well. Same with the other Republican governors I talked to, and he's also not a slam dunk to be reelected in Florida, at all. And Charlie Crist, his, Democratic opponent is a very flawed character, and they're basically neck and neck. So, can't imagine he would hold up well to Kara Swisher · 44:05 He's funny. Guest · 44:06 Who? DeSantis or or Chris? Kara Swisher · 44:07 Chris. Yeah. No. Mean, the... Santis is humorless. Chris? That's why he's not gonna win. Guest · 44:11 Is like the the the the host at the at the at the diner I go to. He's a very lovely guy, and, you know, Florida diner owner. But, no, he's he's impressive, though. He's a former governor. Kara Swisher · 44:22 You know the expression you're likable enough, she's likable enough with Hillary Clinton, as you know? He's not likable. I think that's gonna Guest · 44:29 He's he's a weird dude. Kara Swisher · 44:31 He's not likable, and he's not... I hate... You know, he doesn't smile enough. Guest · 44:34 I I that. They'd say, like, oh, he's Trump with a brain. I mean, he's obviously very smart, but he Kara Swisher · 44:39 No. Trump is funny. Guest · 44:40 Trump is funny. Kara Swisher · 44:41 Charming to Guest · 44:42 his audience. I mean, if you're into that. Kara Swisher · 44:44 Even though he's appalling, but he's also funny. Alright. Let's pivot to the January 6 hearing slot to finish up, and Biden. Do you think... Lot of people do think there really has been... They've gotten... Liz Cheney has gotten some real licks, especially Liz Cheney has got some real licks in. Bannon now says he's testifying. What do you think the impact? I think they're playing it beautifully. Scott Galloway · 45:03 They are. Kara Swisher · 45:03 This committee has done a great job. Guest · 45:05 I mean, first of all, I I do think the impact certainly beats my expectations. It... It's also a great template of how a hearing should be run. I mean, don't let everyone give your little speeches and then give all 20 people or, you know, even, you know, six... However many people are the... 10 people in this case, a turn to talk, you know, very short directed questions, a couple of people doing the questioning, you know, very thematic presentations, video friendly, and, you know, they... They've gotten a lot of good material to work with. So I like that it's making the right people nervous. Kara Swisher · 45:40 Alright. Scott, finish up Union. I know you wanna ask a Biden question. Scott has decided Biden is too old to run. Scott Galloway · 45:44 I'm just... My... From an insider who... Or my sense is you are an honest bystander with with great access. I'd just be curious to get your rundown on how the democratic side of this is shaping up in terms of it feels to me like everybody's publicly says, just as they say they they they like Trump and privately say they don't. I get the sense on the democratic side, everyone's saying they're supporting Joe Biden, and meanwhile, they're getting their own, you know, Kamala Harris for president posters ready. What what are your thoughts on the Democratic side Guest · 46:15 of things? I'm hearing the same thing except without the Kamala part. You know, the, I mean, first, yeah, Joe Biden's too old. I mean, I... I'm happy that my mother stopped driving at age 78 or 79, however old he is, and and I don't want her to be president either. It's obviously not an optimal situation. You know, there's there's no natural air apparent. I would, you know, personally, I've heard... I've I've talked to a ton of people who, and some have said this publicly. I mean, some more will say it publicly. I think as Biden becomes more entrenched in his, you know, mid thirties approval rating, and and just the the sort of swoon continues, is, look, he really needs to step aside and throw this open to a field of, you know, Gavin Newsom's or Stacey Abrams or AOC or, you know, J. B. Pritz or whom... Whoever. I mean, just like just anyone new. Just let let let just bring... Just open the gates, and you cannot be as afraid of Donald Trump as the Republican Party is. Because, basically, the inherent risk aversion that put Joe Biden... That made him the Democratic nominee a few years ago is a product of Trump too. It's like, no. We can't afford to lose this. We're gonna throw grandpa out there and hope he can take one more spin around the block. Kara Swisher · 47:31 Yeah. Because he beat him. Guest · 47:32 He beat him. Kara Swisher · 47:32 He beat him. Yes. So And they... The others didn't. That Guest · 47:34 he didn't. Kara Swisher · 47:35 And and the other thing is why should he give up power on some level? Like, he got to be president. Guest · 47:39 Yeah. Let someone beat him. Kara Swisher · 47:40 Screw Guest · 47:41 you. Exactly. I mean, I I I think the the complaints about his age are not being made to Biden. I just think they're stating objective truths. Kara Swisher · 47:48 He is down... 64% of Democratic voters said they would prefer it with new standard bearer in the 2024. It's a new poll. And, also, he's down at 33%. Although, I don't think people are necessarily linking him to some of the can... He's not dragging candidates down as much as we thought. Guest · 48:03 Yeah. Maybe. Sort of depends. It depends on the Kara Swisher · 48:05 Not in Georgia. Not in other places. You know? We'll see. Scott Galloway · 48:08 We'll see. Is there anyone we haven't mentioned? Is there... I mean, there's always... Karen and I always like to to to to bet on horses, but, typically, in this point of the cycle, if you bet on a horse, that only guarantees they're not gonna win. Are there any unknowns we're not talking about? Kara Swisher · 48:21 Yeah. Remember your bet... Speaking of Elon love, remember your Beto love? Scott Galloway · 48:24 We love Beto. Kara Swisher · 48:26 I love Beto. We didn't. We didn't. Kara's He's Scott Galloway · 48:27 tall and he's handsome, which makes Kara Swisher · 48:29 him 80 man boy who's Scott Galloway · 48:30 not fall by president. Tall and handsome is important for our leaders, Kara. Anyway, Mark, go ahead. Guest · 48:35 Well, yeah, I mean, think Chris Murphy of Connecticut, big gun... He's been very successful in the gun control, you know, getting this done. Very charming guy. I like him a lot. A lot of people like him a lot. Amy Klobuchar, doesn't get mentioned a lot, but probably should. She I love Amy. Decent race the last time, you know, checks a lot of boxes, definitely qualified. You know, I... So I'm sure there... I mean, I don't know. Kara Swisher · 49:01 Mitch Landry is a name I always hear. Guest · 49:03 Me too. Mitch Landry. Scott Galloway · 49:04 What do you think of, like, a Mark Cuban or even if someone like a John Stewart? Do you think that Donald Trump has paved the way for kind of famous private sector running. Guest · 49:11 Yeah. It would be interesting, but, man, I I... If Donald Trump paved the way, it's a rocky pavement in my mind. I mean, oh, boy. I mean, that that is... I mean, obviously, Donald Trump is sort of a unique figure, but I'm... You know, one one one thing I do appreciate about Joe Biden is he kinda knows how to do this. You know, Jared Polis, Colorado is another person you hear a lot. So, yeah, I mean, I Kara Swisher · 49:39 I'm on team Cuban because I'm his enabler. Guest · 49:41 Fine. Kara Swisher · 49:43 I'm just... I think he'd be hysterical. Guest · 49:44 The theme of enablers is actually is a nice Kara Swisher · 49:47 little My goal is to get Scott and I on air force one quite a bit. That's my Guest · 49:51 whole goal. Kara Swisher · 49:51 It's everything Guest · 49:52 That could probably be arranged if the right things happen. But first, Kara Swisher · 49:56 current That's correct. Must emerge. Yes. Must emerge. Maybe Elon will run. No. He can't actually because he's not American citizen. I mean, he is an American citizen. He's not born here. Scott Galloway · 50:05 I'm gonna be ambassador to Australia. Anyways, they'll love me. Guest · 50:08 They will love me. They just sat Scott Galloway · 50:09 at three parties. Go to Australia Kara Swisher · 50:11 and football. Mark. What, what are you writing about next? What's your next topic? Guest · 50:16 Well, I have I have this book thing for the next couple weeks. Still trying to figure that out. I mean, I have, I might write about... You know, I wanna write a story about baseball or basketball. This is my little thing. I need a little break sometimes after a big sort Kara Swisher · 50:32 of Yeah. Politics. Guest · 50:33 Exhausting topic and cycle, you know, if you can jump off for a little bit. Right? And, you know, I have a little more freedom now with The Atlantic, The New York Times, but I was much more Kara Swisher · 50:42 Politics. Guest · 50:42 Yeah. So, you know, maybe I'll get the freedom to do that. But, you know, vacation in August if there's if there's time. But right now, I'm I'm just sort of focused on this thing. Kara Swisher · 50:51 Alright. Thank you so much. Thanks for your servitude is out now. Mark, we really appreciate it. Guest · 50:58 Can I just say that shamelessness remains a superpower? Nothing has changed. Nothing like this has, has happened... Changed in the last fifteen minutes. Thank you guys for for Scott Galloway · 51:07 having It's good work. A good book. Congrats on your success. Thanks. Kara Swisher · 51:11 Alright, Scott. One more quick break. That was great. We'll be back for predictions. [Ad break] — Predictions segment begins — Kara Swisher · 52:09 Okay, Scott. Let's hear a good prediction, a nice fact prediction. Besides the fact that you and Elon will be getting married, I'm very excited. I've gotta pick out what I wanna wear. Go ahead. Scott Galloway · 52:18 You know, I'm finally... I'm I'm glad that he's finally becoming more in touch with his emotions. And his anger towards me, I get it. Anyways, look, my prediction's a boring one. You believe, and I think you're on the side of most people, that they are gonna look at this a drawn out ugly mess and wanna just get out and move on. My prediction is that's not the case, that they have a lot on their side here. I think discovery is gonna be really awful for Elon. And so my prediction is this is gonna go on further and that this lunch, I think that Elon is gonna be served a colder lunch than people are currently anticipating. The other thing I think will be really interesting is I do think there were likely, and I think they're gonna have to disclose this if the case goes long enough. There were other suitors who wouldn't pay this price, but would say we'd be interested in talking Kara Swisher · 53:12 Like who? Give me a name. Don't be like all coy. Scott Galloway · 53:16 Disney, Salesforce, private equity firms. Kara Swisher · 53:19 Oh, Chapek's not wandering into his... This neighborhood. No way. Scott Galloway · 53:23 You might be right. Kara Swisher · 53:25 I asked Mark Benioff directly. He said no. Like, he wasn't even... He didn't even, like, go, well, you know Scott Galloway · 53:32 Well, given also Brett the co CEO is the chairman, it would have created all Guest · 53:35 sorts of issues. Kara Swisher · 53:36 Yep. I think I think it's gonna be hard. They're gonna be... Have to be on their own. Actually, I would recommend a Bill Cohen column speak about this. They... Being on their own might be the best thing that ever happened. They could make it into... You know, they had some freedom and some ability to do some things. Mhmm. They could do pretty well. They could they could. They could. So we'll see. It's certainly a wake up call for this company, which has sort of floated around for the longest time, But we'll see. I'm gonna take the other side of that. I think they're gonna settle. Yeah. That's what Scott Galloway · 54:01 you said. And it's also it's also an opportunity to do what they should have done a long time ago, and that was move to subscription and actually clean up the platform. But, anyways Kara Swisher · 54:09 And payment. I think your payment idea was important. I just know these board members, and they are not pugnacious by... Not one of them. Scott Galloway · 54:16 Not one of them. Kara Swisher · 54:17 No. Maybe Egon Durbin. Is he still on the board? I don't even know if he's still on the board. He's a big important person. Scott Galloway · 54:24 He's treated them like such... Just he's... He literally has abused these Kara Swisher · 54:29 No. I think... I I know almost all of them, and I think they're like, let's get this person away. But I think they would like him to sell his shares and not buy anymore. That's... That might be a condition. That would be something I would... You don't want him near you anymore. Scott Galloway · 54:44 I still don't understand why they don't kick him off the platform. Kara Swisher · 54:47 And by the way, if Elon doesn't buy this, Trump has never come back, they're not gonna wait into that. They... It's... They've already gotten the damage from not letting Trump kicking him off. They're never letting him back on. That's the end of it for Trump. Scott Galloway · 54:57 This is this is... We'll see who's right. And I think the good money or the smart money right now is on your side, but you're taking it. We're... Our prediction is I think this is gonna go longer and be uglier for Elon than people are currently saying. And I think you're saying cooler heads prevail, and they will settle and get a... And move on. Kara Swisher · 55:12 They're very reticent people. These people are not like, fuck this guy. They're just not. So we'll see where it goes. We'll see where it goes, but, it'll be a bit. It'll be a bit. Okay, Scott. That's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more. Anyway, beat us out, Scott. — Predictions segment ends — Scott Galloway · 55:27 Today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Indratot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mio Silvario. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Block me harder, you bitch. [Ad break] Scott Galloway · 56:43 See you [Ad break]