Kara Swisher · 7:39
Speaking of income inequality, the jobs report, it was better than expected. 225,000 jobs in January. The unemployment rate ticked up slightly, but a lot of jobs were up, hospitality and construction. Manufacturing were down because of trade disputes in Boeing. Warehousing and transportation jobs were up. But still, the rate of how much people make still didn't rise. It's just... It still remains this, this economy where there's lots of jobs, and at the same time wages are not going up in any significant way. So any thoughts about this? Was a good jobs report, but I still think underneath it is this theme that Bernie Sanders and others are talking about, which is wage growth is lackluster.
Scott Galloway · 8:20
Yeah. It demonstrates in our society and that is you can find a job but you can't make a living. And, you know, forget if it's Indonesia or Malaysia, there's almost full employment. Unfortunately it's driving rich people around or their clothes. So we have work. We have lots of work. We're always studying to the wrong test here. We look at the unemployment rate as if it's some sign of prosperity. You're absolutely right. It's wage growth. It's the life you lead given that you're working all the time. It's the life you lead given that you don't get to spend as much time with your family. It's the life you lead when you have to make the trade off of not being around your kid as much as you should be when you're in those formative years. And the life you lead in America when you decide to work has gotten substantially less nice. Our quality of life has gone down for everyone, but the top 10% whose quality of life has outpaced any reasonable metric. And we come up with a bunch of, we talk about unemployment. First off, the unemployment number and the jobs number will be revised 12 times in the next twelve months. This is like a starting point. They'll announce in a month, oh, we're revising it, etcetera. And then the thing we don't talk about is the mother of all butts here is give me a trillion dollar credit card, Kara, and I'll give you some sort of illusion of prosperity that's much greater than this. With low unemployment and with a trillion dollars in deficit spending, there should be it should be should be champagne and cocaine for anybody who gets up at 9AM. I mean, it's just nuts. So the nuts, the idea that this is in any way somewhat of a positive indicator, just think. And then I always see monopoly power in everything. Look at the sectors that are growing: healthcare and education. Yep. And healthcare and education are probably the least concentrated businesses in The United States. And then the industry is shedding jobs, manufacturing, and retail. And who makes more stuff and makes more money as a monopoly? These guys, right? Where I watched Parasite last night. And then, and who's the biggest? What about let's talk about retail where almost every one in $2 in market capitalization now goes to one player who's, by the way, going to the Oscars. Yes. Has he not talked to the dog, the key to happiness, the algorithm for is to be rich and anonymous. Bezos needs to be he is not good when he's off his chain. He's He not
Kara Swisher · 10:41
likes dressing up and going. He likes wearing... He went to... I'm sure he went to all the parties and stuff like that.
Scott Galloway · 10:45
Yeah. Yeah. Well, good for him. But anyways, he was there.
Kara Swisher · 10:48
His head count rose. The head count there rose a lot, quite a bit
Scott Galloway · 10:52
in the... Second largest employer in the nation now.
Kara Swisher · 10:54
Right. So what does that mean from a tech I mean, are are these good jobs? These don't seem to be good jobs. Or they'll say they're good jobs, but many people do not believe them to be good jobs.
Scott Galloway · 11:05
Well, they're hiring both. They're hiring at headquarters, which are fantastic jobs. They're they're I do think that Amazon, I think it's hard to, when you're stacking up all the positives and all the negatives, and I spend way too much time talking about the negatives. But on an employment standpoint, they're fantastic. I would argue on the whole they're a very strong employer. I mean there's a lot of stories that criticism they've fallen under. A third of their warehouse workers in Arizona were on food stamps and stuff like that. And that they take advantage of government subsidies. But that's nothing that Walmart or a bunch of other people have They been put in place minimum wage recognizing they have more capital and they can drive Target and Walmart out of business if they start raising wages. And the jobs at headquarters are fantastic jobs. They're great careers for people. It's an intense culture but I think that's good for young people right out of school. But the jobs number, they're now the second largest employer and it's hard to believe that we are again at record low on them. It's 3.5%. It ticked up to 3.6. Most encouraging thing in the number was that it ticked up. Unemployment ticked up despite the fact we added a lot of jobs, says that people are being drawn back into the workforce.
Kara Swisher · 12:10
Right.
Scott Galloway · 12:10
And our labor participation rate is going up, which I think is a good thing because I think work
Kara Swisher · 12:15
Makes people happier.
Scott Galloway · 12:18
That's right. That's 100%. The two things that really drive your happiness is how you feel about your work and how you feel about your power.
Kara Swisher · 12:23
Let me just get back to our previous discussion, Parasite. That's... That was all about work and not enough work. Yeah. And how do you find work and the things you do to work. Correct?
Scott Galloway · 12:32
That's right.
Kara Swisher · 12:32
Okay. Let's talk about Uber's earning call this week. Scott, I knew you had some things to say about it.
Scott Galloway · 12:38
Okay. Uber is now in full Yoga Babble. I've started this thing called the Yoga Babble Index where I do a word cloud and then look at ridiculous words. Let me just read you something from the Uber. Everyone was excited. Their growth was up. They're only losing a billion dollars, and the stock moved 10, up 10% in what has become a total kabuki dance called a public company earnings call, which are staged Broadway productions where they pre pick the analysts to ask softball questions. This is verbatim from the call.
Speaker · 13:08
We're making proactive changes to achieve significant cost leverage for both Rides and Eats through a focused operating playbook including improved machine learning algos and further automation and targeting of our incentive and online marketing spend, stronger tracking and focus for our offline marketing campaigns, the reduction of defect rates that improve self-service tools to improve customer sentiment.
Scott Galloway · 13:30
What does that what does any of that mean? What does any of that mean? They're like, they're the Rudy Giuliani of the information age. Let's just overwhelm them with with ridiculous words this way, x way, and then line up some softballs and earnings I've always made fun of
Kara Swisher · 13:46
those earnings calls because the analysts are terrible. I used to do a live vlog of Yahoo earnings, and I'd always make fun of the
Scott Galloway · 13:51
And by the way, this is courtesy of my buddy Richard Kramer, who's a genius at a rut.
— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 13:56
Nothing fresh in that analysts do softball questioning things. But he did say, if you want to cut to it, expects the company What to be do you think about that projection? By this time next year, expects the company to be profitable.
Scott Galloway · 14:10
Well, it will be profitable based on made up metrics. They'll come up with their own metrics. They'll say, yes, we were profitable if you look at everything but our costs. Right now they're already reporting something called segment adjusted EBITDA, which is what I would refer to as fraudsplaining. It's basically let's take out the costs and then invent our own profit number. On a GAAP basis, on a GAAP basis, I will drive an Uber for a day, which I, isn't a big deal, I've always thought about doing that, it'd be kind of interesting. I'll make a bet, not that Dara Khasushahi wants to make a bet with me. On a GAAP basis, there's no way this company is profitable
Kara Swisher · 14:42
All by so any I'm gonna ask you one final question. Time next year, it's been it's been the first year as a public company. Dara obviously took over a very tough business. Time next year, where will it be?
Scott Galloway · 14:59
One year. Is who we should have on the show, and that is we should have Mark Mahaney, who's the best internet analyst. My bias against Uber clouds my thinking here because Mark Mahaney, you know there's certain people when they speak, you immediately question your viewpoint. Jeffrey Sonnenfeld's one for me, Mark Mahaney's one for me. You're a little bit that way, not much, a little bit. But Mark Mahaney, he likes this company. He's got a long call on it, and he is he is very good. So we should bring him on. But speaking speaking speaking of calls and predictions, let's revisit. We're not good at revisiting. What did I say about Casper? What did the dog say about his dog bed?
Kara Swisher · 15:37
You said it would take longer after the lockups were off. You didn't say within days.
Scott Galloway · 15:42
Well, on.
Kara Swisher · 15:42
You said not within days.
Scott Galloway · 15:43
Price at 17 to 19. They repriced at twelve such that they could have a pop. It opened at ten seventy one today. It's already got it's already crashing. I... We said our prediction was it would be single digits by March 1. It's gonna be single digits probably by the end of the day. Alright. Alright. This thing is little. It's the blue apron of Good. 20
Kara Swisher · 16:02
Good prediction.
Scott Galloway · 16:02
But what do you think of? Do you think Uber gets to profitability?
Kara Swisher · 16:05
No, I think you're correct. I'm on your side, not Mark Mahaney's. Think it's a troubled business. I think it's I think it's unless prices go up. Prices have to go up and then it's a growth problem.
Scott Galloway · 16:13
So You know, it's a growth problem.
Kara Swisher · 16:15
Then I think if prices go up, sure. Why not? You know, it's a good product.
— Predictions segment ends —
Scott Galloway · 16:18
So speaking about work, I wanted to do a behind the scenes talking out of school segment called Scott and Vox.
Kara Swisher · 16:25
Oh, okay. Oh, no.
Scott Galloway · 16:26
This is gonna make everyone very uncomfortable.
Kara Swisher · 16:28
Alright. We've a few minutes. We have a guest coming up. So let us know. Okay.
Scott Galloway · 16:30
What are you Okay. So it's clear you and I, it's clear Pivot are now the tallest midget, and we are literally the star of NBC Must See Thursday Vox or whatever it is we do here. Right? It's like everyone is calling me and being really nice to me, and I'm having dinner tomorrow night with the CEO of Lars. Yeah. And Bangkok, who seems like the nicest man in the world, and Marty Moe, who's also, who's like the second nicest man in the world. And like, what can we do for you? What can we do for you? So it's obvious you're the Michael Jordan here and I'm the Scottie Pippen. They're like, okay, make sure Scottie's happy every once in while. Just checking with Scottie.
Kara Swisher · 17:02
Who is Scottie Pippen?
Scott Galloway · 17:04
Oh my God, really? You don't know who Scottie Pippen is? No. Oh, he was like the number two. He was one of the most amazing basketball players in history, except he had the misfortune of playing on the Chicago Bulls when Michael Jordan was playing. You know, it's kind of Michael Jordan and the Seven Dwarves, right? So no one remembers Scotty. Anyways, I'm Scotty Pippin. So last week, and by the way, Where people love it when we are
Kara Swisher · 17:26
are we going with this situation?
Scott Galloway · 17:27
Bring it home.
Kara Swisher · 17:28
All right, bring it home. So land it. Land it, Scotty.
Scott Galloway · 17:30
When you got angry at me with the Sheryl Sandberg thing? Yeah. You sent me a text message at 11:30PM and you were very angry. Called it deeply uncool and it really hurt my feelings because I'm this terrible combination of offensive, yet insensitive, which is just the worst place, the worst type of person in the world. I offend others, yet I find reason relationship.
Kara Swisher · 17:48
Mission accomplished. But go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 17:50
And so you got me really upset and it got me thinking, outside of the house I'm an extrovert and I offend like there's no tomorrow and I'm very aggressive and very much pursue conflict. When I'm at home, I like harmony. And in my home, my son has just finished the fifth grade, which I describe in academic terms, the shit gets real, they decide to start giving kids Cs and Ds. And my wife loses her shit and goes after my 12 year old. This is unacceptable. No more electronics. You're not playing basketball. And the dog leaves the room. It gets so uncomfortable and ugly. And I wanna leave the room. I wanna go into the fetal position. I do not like Where
Kara Swisher · 18:27
are we landing this particular plane? Where are we going here?
Scott Galloway · 18:30
So he goes into his room. He goes into his room. And my role is to go in there and make a plan with them. And then with my boys, I adjust their back, I rub their ears, and I do geography questions and quizzes to relax them. They go to sleep. The next morning they wake up. Everything's fine, the scar tissue heals over, the muscle that's damaged grows back stronger, and then when they're 19 and they get their heart broken or get their first F, they're not gonna freak out. So on the whole, it's a good thing. Yeah. But it is really painful for me, and it was really painful for me when you sent that message. So Bankov keeps saying, what can I do for you? So I have figured it out. Oh, no. When you send me mean text messages at 11:30 that upset me, I want Bankov to come over, crack my back, rub my ears, and ask me what the capital of Iceland is.
Kara Swisher · 19:09
Oh my god. Really? I'm not gonna send you any more texts. Good god.
Scott Galloway · 19:13
Good It's Reykjavik, Kara. It's Reykjavik.
Kara Swisher · 19:16
Alright. You know what, Scott? I will not send you mean texts anymore at 11:30, but it wasn't mean at all,
Guest · 19:20
but whatever.
Kara Swisher · 19:21
Okay. Hurt
Scott Galloway · 19:22
my feelings. At 11:30
Guest · 19:24
at night.
Kara Swisher · 19:24
Oh my god. I... I'm always up on the text, Scott. You understand.
Scott Galloway · 19:28
You're always up on that text then.
Kara Swisher · 19:29
I promise. I didn't tweet at you, did I? Did I? No. I did not. Did not.
Scott Galloway · 19:33
No. Thanks. Yeah. That... That'd be good. Let's let's take our arguments to Twitter. That
Kara Swisher · 19:38
I'm would make gonna only send you nice things from now on on on on on text. How about that? Because it's a couple But during the workday, let me just tell you, you are. There... It is gloves off. Workday, you are gonna get mean texts
Scott Galloway · 19:52
off. That's it. That's it.
Kara Swisher · 19:53
Alright. Full body contact. Take a quick... I'm sorry. I made you upset, I guess, I suppose. Anyway, Scott, we're gonna take a quick break.
Scott Galloway · 20:00
Go on.
Kara Swisher · 20:00
When we get back I'm sorry. How you? Speaking of lovely people who are gonna massage your ears, friend of Pivot, Andrew Ross Sorkin, is here, We're and going to talk about a bunch of things around the stock market, about Instagram, everything else when we get back.
[Ad break]
Kara Swisher · 22:09
Okay. We're back, and we have friends of Pivot Live, and we brought our friend Andrew Ross Sorkin here. He's on the line. He's obviously the New York Times columnist and Squawk Box host, and we're gonna talk about a couple things. He's also... You know, I don't know if you know this, Andrew, but, Scott has a man crush on you. Scott, say
Scott Galloway · 22:26
you Well, he knows it. We had dinner.
Guest · 22:27
I got a... We we had dinner. I would say it's mutual, the man crush.
Scott Galloway · 22:31
Come on. That's right.
Guest · 22:33
It's real.
Scott Galloway · 22:34
That's His wife is lovely. Yes. He... And Andrew's actually quite
Guest · 22:38
much as is yours. It was... We had a we had a ball together.
Scott Galloway · 22:41
Did you? Yeah. It's it's... Andrew's actually a neurotic mess, which I didn't know. Yeah. That's what I figured out. It's true. He's actually... It's all a front. It is so a front.
Kara Swisher · 22:51
What I wanna know. Wasn't I invited to this dinner?
Scott Galloway · 22:54
Finally. And we're gonna do it. Finally to know. Next week.
Guest · 22:57
We'll do You and me.
Kara Swisher · 22:58
That's right. We are. Always. Alright. Fair point. Alright. Listen to me. Listen to me. We're gonna talk things now now that you've had your moment together, and I'm so glad we brought you together. We're gonna talk Instagram. Scott, a few weeks ago, you said that Facebook would become the next trillion dollar company off the back of the Instagram ecommerce. Andrew, we wanna talk a little bit about these trillion dollar companies. And since then, Instagram has made some other big moves, including the start of a prototype program that will allow IGTV creators to monetize content by showing ads in their videos. So how big is this for Instagram and ecommerce as a platform? And generally, are you expecting big things out of this model? And Instagram, you expecting a bust?
Guest · 23:34
So I know you want us to disagree, but I actually... I don't even disagree. But I... The only thing I disagree about is I actually think it's gonna even be bigger than that. I think that long term, Instagram has the opportunity to become the ultimate super app insofar as it not just being a straight e commerce play where people are, you know, seeing a pair of jeans or a dress or whatever and buying that. I think it's going to launch media. You just talked about the media component, but I think it could very well be that you launch Netflix shows off of it. You launch Hulu shows off of it. I think podcasts may get launched off it. I could even see financial products getting launched off of it. I kind of think it's it's one of those places where we may end up living our lives, for better or worse and basically doing everything in it. I think we're very close to that, actually.
Kara Swisher · 24:27
Super app. I love this idea, Scott, that's actually like one of your comments.
Scott Galloway · 24:31
It's actually a chill, it's chilling thought because I hadn't thought of this before, but Mark Zuckerberg is not afraid to make, I think there's a chill that's come out and I'm curious what Andrew thinks here. I think there's chill or a pall that's been cast over the big four and they're not as acquisitive or as aggressive as they might be because they're worried about raising red flags for the DOJ or the media. But I don't think Mark Zuckerberg cares. I think he's a honey badger. I think Mark Zuckerberg just don't give a shit. And I could see him, I hadn't even thought about the whole movie or media angle. I wonder if Instagram could acquire a Spotify. Andrew, have you thought about who they might acquire to get some momentum around kind of a Netflix like internet?
Guest · 25:09
Well, so I think there's two opportunities here. One is for them to acquire other businesses, like a Spotify, or get into the music space, get into all of these different spaces. The other thing they could very well do though is just create effectively such a great interface that it doesn't matter who it is, that it's all sort of integrated in, that they effectively create partnerships. They decide that Lyft is their favorite or that Uber is their favorite or that Netflix is their favorite over Hulu or whatever it is. And then you see us all, I mean, us as consumers sort of living inside this app and jumping around. I mean, look, you're seeing, you're already seeing, we just talked about jeans and dresses. What about food? I mean, one of the great things on on Instagram is beautiful images of food. I think you'll start, you know, buying all the food through that. It may be then you go off to restaurants. I just think... I think the opportunity for how... You know, you could be you could be getting a reservation on OpenTable through Instagram.
Scott Galloway · 26:07
So their ads their ads are getting so predictive. It feels like at some point they could just start telling you, okay. Trust us. Click here.
Kara Swisher · 26:13
Yeah. My son has bought a bunch of stuff off of there, and it's interesting that he doesn't buy it other places. So in terms of getting into areas they haven't gotten into, like competing with Amazon, what happens to the Facebook app then? They... That's always known as the Big Blue app, and that's what sort of has... They've always said this is what spurs everything is the Big Blue app. But it's becoming less relevant or this be... Replaces it or what?
Guest · 26:35
I think it replaces it. I'm not... Look. But maybe I'm not a core Facebook user anymore. I'm on it. I check it out. I go over there. I... For better or worse, I don't know if you guys do this. I... When I post the Instagram picture, I also post to Facebook. I kinda feel like I'm cheating by doing it that way. But I I I... That's... I I don't know. Generation... Maybe it's a generational thing. And by the way, it may very well be that one generation lives on Facebook core and one one generation lives off of Instagram.
Scott Galloway · 27:03
So What company... So I'm curious. I'm sorry to interrupt, Kara. What company... You're obviously bullish on Facebook and Instagram here. What company that you talk about a lot or we talk a lot about on CNBC? What company do you... Are you most skeptical on right now? Which of the big guys that we talk about are you
Guest · 27:17
are you least bullish on? That's a good question. Of the of the Fangs?
Scott Galloway · 27:21
Of anyone. Just name a company. You think these guys are gonna struggle.
Guest · 27:24
I think Snap's gonna struggle, but I don't think that's like the hardest. I don't think that's so unconventional.
Scott Galloway · 27:29
Right? Because because of Instagram. Because Instagram's so dominant.
Guest · 27:32
Because of Instagram. Because because Instagram killed them with... Mean, I think Instagram
Scott Galloway · 27:36
With stories.
Guest · 27:36
Told the stories.
Scott Galloway · 27:37
What about Pinterest and The story. Pinterest is the same thing?
Guest · 27:40
Same game. Yeah. I'm in the same place. I... Look. I like I like Ben. I I want I want all these guys to succeed. Can they ever have the same kind of success that that Facebook can with with what Instagram's creator at this point? I think it's gonna be very,
Kara Swisher · 27:52
very challenging.
Guest · 27:53
Again, though, to me, parts of pin... Pinterest end up, I imagine, will show up inside some version
Kara Swisher · 27:59
of Instagram. News? Because you were talking about... Because Facebook's always struggled with a couple of things. Commerce because Amazon is in there and media because Amazon is in there also. Apple's in there. Google's gotten into media. And so Facebook hasn't really been in the media space as much. And then, obviously, news itself, when I think of
Guest · 28:19
They haven't nailed news.
Kara Swisher · 28:20
So is this a way to it?
Guest · 28:22
And we're all trying to figure out how to do it. I can't fathom for the life of me why they can't figure out some kind of Twitter like copycat thing that lives inside Instagram on some kind of other tab. I'm just shocked that they haven't
Kara Swisher · 28:35
done it. So
Guest · 28:35
because I because I actually think if there was a Twitter like functionality inside Instagram, we'd all be living
Scott Galloway · 28:42
in there. 100%. I can't figure it out either.
Kara Swisher · 28:44
When you say living in there, explain that for the people that you do.
Guest · 28:47
When I say living in, I think I'd open my Instagram account in the morning, and I wouldn't leave. Yeah. I think I would just be rock... I'd just be locked in there. I think I'd be flipping around between the news feed if they had it, and they and they and they could productize it right. And I'd be living inside the sort of traditional feed of images. I I I am like you guys. I hit the ads. I think those ads, I don't know how they how they do it. You know, those images, I look at them. I say, oh, I want that. And I click on it. And I and I can see that much more contextually in the long term so that they're actually productizing my own image.
Kara Swisher · 29:26
I see. So what about Twitter? What happens to Twitter in this? Because that was something Twitter was gonna do, you know, in terms of getting you to do things or watch things or move you to things. And that
Guest · 29:33
Well, you tell me. Do you... Do we think that long term Twitter can do an instant... If you think No. One of them has to ape the other.
Scott Galloway · 29:40
Yeah.
Guest · 29:40
Right? But I think that on... For better or worse, Twitter... Look. I live on Twitter. I love Twitter, but I think it's all of us talking to each other. Yeah. It's this whole journalistic crowd and Political. Don't know what and political and some others. I don't know if that audience is ever the same size as Insta. So the real question is why can't Insta try to ape Twitter? I think it's much harder for Twitter to ape ape ape Instagram.
Kara Swisher · 30:04
Does Twitter get bought? I mean, Scott Scott, explain your theory of of people taking over Twitter this year.
Scott Galloway · 30:10
Yeah. So I I don't even I think Twitter, so I had a long position in Twitter. I actually sold last Thursday after it popped. But I think Twitter has gotten to the point at a $30,000,000,000 market cap, and that's after a 30% run up, so it's 24,000,000,000, that the opportunity, there aren't that many of these things. There's like three or you know, maybe five kind of quote unquote social media platforms. You haven't had one start since 2011. I think a Salesforce or a Disney or someone goes, the opportunity to have influence among journalists, actors, politicians, I mean they do reach a very influential crowd, is worth $30,000,000,000 I think there's a
Guest · 30:48
I've always thought that, but then you look at what Bob Iger said when he looked at it, he said, don't want to get in I don't want to get in the mess of all of this kind of stuff. Yeah.
Scott Galloway · 30:57
What about a sales force?
Guest · 30:58
Don't know. I
Kara Swisher · 30:59
They've looked at it.
Guest · 31:00
I mean, Benioff looked at LinkedIn.
Kara Swisher · 31:02
Yeah. But he looked at Twitter. Right. Twitter.
Guest · 31:04
And I think he looked at Twitter as well and more... But he was looking more because he he wanted the content for the AI and everything else. I mean, I don't know. The other thing is just making Delrahim and just president Trump or, frankly, it doesn't matter who's in who's in office. Can any of the big guys buy Twitter? Right.
Scott Galloway · 31:21
Right? Right.
Kara Swisher · 31:21
Right.
Scott Galloway · 31:22
That's that's the question.
Guest · 31:23
Off the table?
Kara Swisher · 31:24
Well, you know, interesting. I think a lot of, hedge fund people have been talking about it and sort of getting in there. And and I've gotten a lot of calls from hedge fund people about Twitter. What are they... What do I think? Do they think it could be bought? You know, it's interesting just lately. And maybe that's something that just happens every, you know, it's like a blue moon kind of thing. But it's always sort of thought of that way, but it's never thought of that they can actually productize these things you're talking about themselves. No one ever they... People think more that Snapchat keeps innovating its way out of trouble, but they they don't think the same of Twitter.
Guest · 31:56
Yeah. I don't know what Twitter could do. That's a... It's a very good question. But then... And I mean, look. Google looked at it. Does it just change the landscape for Google? If you somehow merged up Twitter and YouTube, does that, you know, advance your cause? I don't know.
Kara Swisher · 32:11
But but Instagram is where you think the thing is at... Is going to be where it's at in all.
Guest · 32:15
To me, that's where it's at because that's where I find my focus. That's where I see kids are all focused, older people. I mean, it seems like across the board, they are just, you know, running the table.
Kara Swisher · 32:26
Listen to me. We're almost done, but I want... You need to kick us off with win and a fail. Do you have an early win this week or something from last week?
Scott Galloway · 32:33
Okay. I have I have one more question. Oh, alright. Did I interrupt?
Kara Swisher · 32:35
Go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 32:36
So Yeah. To to me, business television seems like it's dying. It seems like someone in an oxygen tank that's buying or selling Amazon that wants to see one of your millions of women in a short sleeve dress. Although I think you'd be much more interesting in a short sleeve dress. Where does business television go? I think it's dying. I love, and by the way, I love CNBC. I watch you. I think it's dying. What what is it? What needs to happen here? What what business television question mark, your turn.
Guest · 33:02
The ratings would go up if I wore a short sleeve dress. That's for sure. You know? You
Scott Galloway · 33:09
have some limey and milky arms.
Kara Swisher · 33:11
Come on. Move along.
Guest · 33:13
Look. No. I'm not I'm not actually... I'm not gonna agree with the... With with the business news argument there because I'll tell you what. There's this crazy community of people who are diehard.
Scott Galloway · 33:24
No, they're dying. Not diehard. They're dying.
Kara Swisher · 33:26
Let him finish, Well,
Guest · 33:28
you can... Sorry. No, no. Sure. Go ahead. You you can you can make that argument. I think that if you look at what CBC is doing, for example, on air and then on digital. Yep. I think that there's a core... Look, To me, great content is always about having a core audience, I think there genuinely is a a genuinely core audience. If you go and talk to the CEOs of not just the Fortune five hundred, but even the guys in the Valley and elsewhere, They they may not be watching it all live, but they're watching the clips. They wanna be on it.
Scott Galloway · 33:55
Yeah.
Guest · 33:55
They wanna talk to the audience of investors. They're... It's part of this ecosystem. I can't tell you when I'm doing squawk in the morning how many phone calls I get or emails during the show live from people on the West Coast, big name CEOs you know, who say, Sorkin, I can't believe you just said that or what's going on with this or they're
Kara Swisher · 34:11
Well, they're Andrew Ross Sorkin fanboys, correct? That's the difference.
Scott Galloway · 34:15
No. It is sort of the business I mean, you think about business news in that format, everybody, it is in the backdrop. It's playing everywhere. It is
Guest · 34:25
question to me is a little bit more like ESPN, which is long term from from a cable perspective, will people, you know, are you gonna have to create like an ESPN plus like service? Do people then pay for that? How much do they pay for that? If you believe carriage fees are gonna come down long term, how does that all work itself out? That to me is a real sort of, question, but I think that there still is this core group that I think loves it and will pay a lot for it all.
Kara Swisher · 34:53
I am
Scott Galloway · 34:53
with Andy. On Instagram.
Kara Swisher · 34:54
I'm with Andy on this one. Okay. Andy, win and fail. Win and fail. He's right.
Scott Galloway · 34:58
What's your win and fail, Andrew?
Kara Swisher · 34:59
Innovated, Scott. But go
Guest · 35:01
A win and fail. And this is my own personal win and fail. Right?
Scott Galloway · 35:04
Yes. Whatever you want.
Guest · 35:05
Or just just a win and fail for the week.
Kara Swisher · 35:06
What are
Guest · 35:07
you talking about here? Give me the A win
Scott Galloway · 35:08
and fail. What hit you when we said win and fail? I think personal is more interesting. I don't think people know the real Andrew Ross Ordon.
Kara Swisher · 35:13
Oh my god.
Scott Galloway · 35:13
I don't think they know the real Win and
Kara Swisher · 35:14
fail, Andrew. Don't listen to him.
Guest · 35:17
Well, okay. So the the win... I said I did an interview with Marcelo Clor this morning. Cloray, I should The first first real TV interview he's done since all the crazy commotion. And he sits in so... I thought it was a win because I thought he opened up about the relationship with Adam Neumann and and said that they actually don't talk that much anymore, even though I think that's not what Adam Neumann would like him to have said. Because I think that Adam Neumann desperately wants to still be part
Kara Swisher · 35:45
of company. Out that Marcello was at the scene of the crime the whole time. So
Guest · 35:50
He was.
Kara Swisher · 35:50
So it's sort of like Bill Gurley trashing Travis Kalanick. You know? Now we are so much better, but they were there at the end.
Guest · 35:56
A 100%. But I actually thought he was humble about it in terms of saying, look, we totally screwed this up, and we made a mistake. I'm gonna watch that. That that Would you invest
Scott Galloway · 36:03
in WeWork at 8,000,000,000? I'm sorry. I interrupted. Would you invest in WeWork at an 8,000,000,000 valuation?
Guest · 36:09
It's tough. It's tough. They have, by the way, close to 15,000,000,000 in with with debt. So that's what I said to him. I said, how do you how do you get money? How do you make... How do you become money good?
Scott Galloway · 36:18
Yeah.
Guest · 36:18
He thinks that they're gonna get there. It's gonna be... I think it's gonna be a rough road. Big loss for me was, you know, the squawk show, which I love doing, makes you go to sleep so early, I didn't get to watch the Oscars last night. That's a... That was a fail. Oh, you hate to hear
Scott Galloway · 36:33
that. Parasite.
Guest · 36:35
That was a fail.
Scott Galloway · 36:35
You're welcome. Watch Parasite. Have you seen Parasite?
Guest · 36:38
No. That another fail. I'm just failing all morning.
Kara Swisher · 36:40
Fail. Go watch Right now, it's about income equality. F. Go watch it. I know it. Anyway, Andrew, thank you so much. This was totally insightful and... You made a lot of good content. Let me just say in a very
Scott Galloway · 36:51
short of. Time. Of. Only sort of. Sort of. I'm with you. Insightful ish ish. Little bit.
Kara Swisher · 36:56
Super asp. Little bit. Scott, was the interview.
Scott Galloway · 36:59
It was the interview. Yeah.
Kara Swisher · 37:00
Thank you.
Guest · 37:00
Thank you, Andrew. Thanks. Bye bye.
Scott Galloway · 37:03
See you, Andrew.
Kara Swisher · 37:04
Okay, Scott. He's brilliant. I'm sorry. You're gonna have to go now.
Scott Galloway · 37:07
It's my turn for Wins of the I get to follow Andrew off Yes, go ahead. Thanks for that.
Kara Swisher · 37:12
Go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 37:12
Thanks for that. Okay. So My Win is a motion picture or whatever we're calling the camera. Thought that they pulled off one of the great brand moves. I think they've kind of turned the corner if you will. Thought that Parasite was just such a unique opportunity and they seized So my fail is the continued shit show, ask clown management of the Democratic National Committee. And a guy named Rajeev Misra, the guy running the Vision Fund, deserves to be fired more than anyone in the world right now. I love that. I was thinking about Gina Rometti, you know when the chairman sits down and says, Ramadi says, we're making, we're going in a different direction as the lead director, he sits her down. I wonder if she said, well, you know what? The dog locking app is on its way. I mean, guy gets to keep his job. The head of Vision Fund gets to keep his job. Anyways, that person deserves to be fired more than anyone in the world with the exception of, is his name Tom Perez, the Yes. Head of the And I don't know if you saw Jim Carvell's rant this love That guy's a fucking genius. He's like, he's political... It's about political power. It's about power. And our moral imperative
Kara Swisher · 38:19
This is Southern
Scott Galloway · 38:20
Christian here.
Kara Swisher · 38:21
Do know that?
Scott Galloway · 38:22
It's not it's not to bring fucking Bernie. Why is Bernie Sanders on the debate? This is what Tom Perez or whoever actually has a pair who shows up after Tom Perez is justifiably escorted from whatever building the DNC occupies right now. We should have debates that say, okay, are you a Democrat? And do you have any... Why the hell is Andrew Yang on the debate stage? I like him. He's got great ideas. So do the guys. So do the writers of the Colbert Report. Should they run for president? You have better ideas and are much more qualified than Andrew Yang. Lovely guy. You know who doesn't want him to be president? Anyone that worked with him. Why is Tom Steyer a guy that made a billion and $0.5 pulling coal out of the ground has all of a sudden decided he's an eco warrior and can buy his way onto the stage? Then people conflate him with Bloomberg. Bloomberg was governor of the seventh largest state in the union called Manhattan. He absolutely deserves to be in the race. There are only three people that have any business being on that stage right now, who everyone finally is going to realize, okay, I've dated and I've flirted with some bad boys or some idiots and the nice guy. There are only three people that matter right now. Only three that have any chance of our moral imperative of kicking the weirdo out of the office. First is Bloomberg. Second is Mayor Pete who barely gets on the stage as the mayor of a town where he got 8,900 votes. And then the third and the person with the most momentum is senator Klobuchar. If they wanna sponsor a British Labor Party debate, more power to you, Bernie. Go to that. He doesn't even say he's a democrat. He's a fucking socialist. The DNC
Kara Swisher · 39:55
Tom Perez and the guy from SoftBank fired. Okay.
Scott Galloway · 39:58
I want the DNC to figure out their job is to get Trump out of office.
Kara Swisher · 40:03
Alright. The DNC and SoftBank, Scott, I'm gonna have to take you down now. Really? Something happened.
Scott Galloway · 40:10
Go ahead.
Kara Swisher · 40:10
Go ahead. I'm gonna have to write you an 11:30 text tonight about this.
Scott Galloway · 40:14
What did I do?
Kara Swisher · 40:15
Are you I'm teasing you. I'm teasing you. What's your What's your capital? Canada. Gonna be at 11:30. It could be 11:32. It could be 11:33. I don't know when I'm gonna send but it's gonna be
Scott Galloway · 40:25
I'm very sensitive, yet offensive.
Kara Swisher · 40:27
Just wait for Wait Wait It's coming. It's coming. You know, it's gonna be a card. We're gonna make a movie.
Scott Galloway · 40:33
Well, let me ask you this. I'm serious though. Call text. Do you really think this shit show politically correct? Why do we have a democratic socialist on stage?
Kara Swisher · 40:41
Scott.
Scott Galloway · 40:41
Why do we have a self identified socialist running for the democratic This
Kara Swisher · 40:45
is That's why. And that's the way it goes. There's a lot... He has a lot of points.
Scott Galloway · 40:50
You're about to Bernie The president's gonna be Donald Trump.
Kara Swisher · 40:51
I'm worried you're about I am I am I am working on lots of things. I have lots of podcasts. I've got all kinds of interesting things, and I will be here in DC just doing things. Amanda's going back to work for the first time after maternity leave, which I think parents in this country should have the year off, but they don't.
Scott Galloway · 41:24
How long did you have off?
Kara Swisher · 41:25
Just three months.
Scott Galloway · 41:27
You're gonna send me some reinforcing and subtle but nice text messages. 11:30 tonight.
Kara Swisher · 41:32
You just wait by that phone.
Scott Galloway · 41:34
Seriously?
Kara Swisher · 41:34
Yes. And then we're we're gonna make a movie called Text, and it'll be all about this relationship.
Scott Galloway · 41:40
I think it's been done.
Kara Swisher · 41:41
Alright.
Scott Galloway · 41:41
I think it's been done, and I don't think we're that interesting. But anyways, that makes a compelling viewing.
Kara Swisher · 41:45
Alright. I will I will send you a love... At 11:30 tonight, I will send you a loving massage of a text. Okay? How about that? Alright. Thank A head scratching of a text. Alright. Thank you so much for everyone. Scott, would you please read the the credits as we go?
Scott Galloway · 42:01
Rebecca Sinanis is our producer. Erica Anderson is our executive producer. Special thanks to Drew Burrows and Rebecca Castro. Make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts. Or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Kara Swisher · 42:17
And thank you to Andrew Ross Sorkin again for coming on the show. Andy. We love you.
Scott Galloway · 42:22
If you like the show, please recommend it to a friend. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back late this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.
