Pivot · Sep 13, 2020

Pivot Schooled #4: The Big Four, with Google CEO Sundar Pichai and Columbia University's Tim Wu

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 1:01:17. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Guest · 1:01:17 Sure seems like Facebook helped just as they helped the Russians in the twenty sixteen election. So this just continues to be an issue Facebook is having trouble wrapping its arms around. Kara Swisher · 1:01:24 Yeah. Alright. Now what happens under Biden administration? Joel Kaplan, is he still with us? Guest · 1:01:29 The crazy thing about Biden is that Biden wants to destroy section two thirty, which is the underpinnings of the Internet that you and I love. Right? Just our ability to just get on Twitter, say whatever you want, like, Joe Biden wants to take that away. Now there's an open question as to how well he understands the law and how seriously he's gonna pursue that if he actually becomes president. But his stated position is basically we need to get rid of the Internet as we know it today, and I think most people aren't paying close attention to that. Kara Swisher · 1:01:55 I don't think he knows what he's talking about. Alright. But what about Facebook? Who's gonna have a Facebook and Joel Kaplan? He doesn't know. He's not doing it. That ain't You Guest · 1:02:02 know, I... I'm sort of working on a story about this right now. Like, Joel Kaplan often gets positioned as this bogeyman. Right? You read all these stories where, you know, Joel Kaplan appears out of nowhere to intervene and, you know, help out Breitbart here or there. And, you know, and and I believe all of that reporting. But the thing people forget is that Mark Zuckerberg's user base is more conservative than the average American and certainly his own employees. So Zuckerberg has a lot of just customer service reasons to cater to that population that go well beyond, you know, Joel Kaplan whispering in in his ear. So even though he's a convenient explanation for a lot of these things, it it... I think people really miss the real story when they talk about him. Kara Swisher · 1:02:41 Yes. That's a good answer. Last question from me broken up. Did... Are they in any real danger? I mean, Tim just said that that they're in the most legal jeopardy. How do you assess it? And I have questions from the audience. Guest · 1:02:52 I think if you if you look to the letter of the law, then, yes, I think there's a very good case to be made that that Facebook should have to unwind the the WhatsApp and Instagram acquisitions. The question is just, do you truly believe that this utterly chaotic, corrupt administration, you know, is actually gonna go through that process and will win in court? And that's where I sort of have my doubt. So I think it is the right thing to do in principle. I think it's unlikely to happen in reality. Kara Swisher · 1:03:21 Okay. One question from the audience. And Scott will have a final question. What's your take on the morning news about Facebook versus Apple's new operating system? Is it able to block Facebook's ability to merge... To target ads. It starts an interesting data compatibility war between the two giants, and they have fought before. Scott Galloway · 1:03:36 They have. And this is gonna be the subject Guest · 1:03:38 of my column today. So if you want the full take, go to theverge.com/interface and sign up. Look. Mhmm. I think there's a lot to like about what Apple is doing. At the end of the day, they're just giving people more control over the information they want to share. This is usually what we... You know, people like you you and me, like, argue for. Right? Like, we want people to have control over this sort of thing. But I do think that there's another view of this, which is Apple is unilaterally setting the terms of the advertising market and no one gets to appeal, right? So if you wanna be sympathetic to Facebook here, you can at least say, here is once again a case where Apple is abusing its market position just as it has with Epic and Basecamp and all the other companies we've seen this summer. Kara Swisher · 1:04:16 Alright. Scott, last question. Scott Galloway · 1:04:18 Casey, what's the most underreported story in tech? Guest · 1:04:22 The most underreported story in tech. You know, the thing I would point to is a great piece that that Rafat wrote on Skift today about how free Zooms are gonna destroy the events business, which I encourage both both of you to read and every media business should read. All of us are getting used to doing this sort of in person video conferencing, and I think it it has huge implications that actually are starting to become clear. Right? This is starting to become one of the major dividing lines between the the before times and the after times when it comes to COVID. He calls the Zoom basically the events industry having its Napster moment. And I think we we need to to think a lot more about that because a lot of companies are gonna get founded and sold, and a lot of incumbents are gonna get hurt and maybe destroyed because of it. Scott Galloway · 1:05:10 Yeah. Wow. Hotel. Kara Swisher · 1:05:11 Casey, so so much in Scott Galloway · 1:05:13 I like Kara Swisher · 1:05:13 Hotels and everything. So much information. Scott Galloway · 1:05:15 And by the way, I Guest · 1:05:16 wanna thank Steve Harper Chai for opening up for me today. He did a great job. Kara Swisher · 1:05:19 Alright. Scott Galloway · 1:05:21 Well, you were the man Guest · 1:05:21 of that. Scott Galloway · 1:05:22 He was the the... You're you too. Kara Swisher · 1:05:24 Alright. Alright, Scott. Thank you, Casey. See you soon. Well Maybe not. I'm curious. Guest · 1:05:30 Thanks, Casey. Bye. Bye. Bye. Kara Swisher · 1:05:33 See you in San Francisco. Okay, Scott. Let's answer some questions from the audience. We are running very late. So listener mail, first, we have a video question. So let's watch. Speaker · 1:05:43 What I wanna get your perspective on is sovereign risk in The US. We've heard recently that the federal government would like to nationalize the profits of a foreign asset sale with TikTok. And they've also of course talked about banning companies which are disloyal to the central government. We know this to be the authoritarian playbook. It's the next chapter we can likely expect in a Trump reelection that he will take over companies owned by non loyalists and hand them to friends and allies. I want to know if analysts are talking about this as a serious risk and whether companies, especially like Amazon, which is currently run by a known non loyalist of the central government, is asleep at the wheel in realizing the risk that is coming to them if Trump is reelected. Kara Swisher · 1:06:33 Well, that's Clinton Barnes of New York, and he's very jaunty. That's a very... I think, you know, Clinton, this is a really interesting question. I think you're right. It is the authoritarian playbook to tap friends take over industries. I... If I had to go even with another four years of Trump, I think Jeff Bezos will outlast him on every... In every aspect. So if you're gonna use that one, I do think he will try to help his friends and hurt his enemies. I don't think he's particularly effective at it as much as he thinks he is. And I think it'll get worse in the next administration because the next administration's gonna... If if he's the president, it's gonna be subject to protests and just constant scandal, I suspect. And and and still, you know, we're... The the the the the people working for him are getting less and less good, and I'm being kind there. So I don't I don't worry about it necessarily. And again, I think Jeff Bezos, if I'm gonna use him as the proxy here, is probably, just fine. What do you think, Scott? Scott Galloway · 1:07:28 Yeah. The liberal and liberal democracy is that we have institutions that slow down our thinking such that when we make a mistake and elect people who decide to play pretend CEO, that the courts and regulators can step in. And if you look at what's really happened, you know, he okay, went after CNN, I hate CNN, so I'm going to block their merger with AT and T. And the courts said no. So, look, you're absolutely right, Kara. Trump versus Bezos is Mayweather versus MacGregor, the redhead gets the shit kicked out of him. The big tech is the windshield. And right now any any single politician who tries to circumvent the law is just a big a big splat against that windshield. I'm not as worried. I think you're smart to be worried, but I haven't seen any evidence that he's been able other than saying picking on Maytag or I mean, it's just so it's just it's almost It's like a bad version of the shark tank. Kara Swisher · 1:08:23 I think, Casey and Tim both talked about Oracle being in this deal with TikTok is that. It looks like that, for orc. Oracle looks like friend of... Friend o Trump. Scott Galloway · 1:08:33 Oracle. Talk about hair plugs on an aging company. Jesus Christ. My God. TikTok and Oracle. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Seriously, that's like when I show up wearing my members only jacket. Yeah. Yeah. That Kara Swisher · 1:08:51 makes sense. Scott Galloway · 1:08:52 I got a Corvette. Let's go to the red onion. Some Lancer's wine. I used to party with these cool cats in Cuba. Kara Swisher · 1:08:58 Red onion. Scott Galloway · 1:08:59 Oh my Guest · 1:08:59 god. What Kara Swisher · 1:08:59 the onion? Scott Galloway · 1:09:01 The red onion. Kara Swisher · 1:09:02 I don't even know what Scott Galloway · 1:09:02 that That's where that's where the dog used to take dates in college. $2 $2 Long Island iced teas. Nine shots of alcohol for $2. That's right. Do you know how charming I get after seven or eight shots? Kara Swisher · 1:09:15 No. I don't think you're charming at all after seven or eight shots. Oh, someone asked Silicon Valley in hoodies. What's the deal? They they don't wear hoodies as much as you think. Wait. Do they? Oh, Sundar. Scott Galloway · 1:09:24 Sundar looked so elegant, didn't he? Kara Swisher · 1:09:26 He always Scott Galloway · 1:09:27 looked like Omar Sharif's nephew who's the ambassador to Rwanda. He looked like something out of mid century modern cool. Was that a hate crime? Did I do that wrong? Can't Have I just find been canceled on Twitter? Kara Swisher · 1:09:39 You know, not like Scott Galloway · 1:09:40 It was so offensive that it wasn't offensive. We will consult He's very elegant looking. Kara Swisher · 1:09:44 The cancel culture experts on that. Yes, is. He's great. Yeah. He... They just like to wear Scott Galloway · 1:09:48 You know what I took away? You know what I took away from the interview with Sundar? So first off, and you know my rule, anyone who's famous who calls me and asks me to lunch, I say no, because you know what happens? And this happened on this episode, this happened on Pivot School. I listened to Sunder and I see those sublime shoulders and that cool hoodie and that thoughtful demeanor. And I'm like, I just like Sunder and I like, immediately don't, Google is less of a threat. And then Tim Wu comes on and reminds us what the real world's like that this is a these guys are huge set and need to be broken up. Do not have lunch with famous people because they're almost very, always very likable and take your eye off the ball. Kara Swisher · 1:10:28 Okay. Alright. That's a real... Okay. I think. Okay. Alright. Okay. Sure. One thing I did note in that hearing, the only person they accused of being un American was the person of color on... Which was amazing. I thought that was Scott Galloway · 1:10:39 They used the word American nine times with Sundar. They used it they used it four times with Zuckerberg. The guys that were born in... Or Alabama and Texas, they didn't bring up the word American. Kara Swisher · 1:10:49 Yeah. It was really quite striking. I thought that was wrong. But you're right. We should not... Just because he has a lovely elegant hoodie, which they all do. They're they're... They all cost $200, just so you know, $300 hoodies. They're very very guy Scott Galloway · 1:11:01 be any more likable? Could that... He's the most They're smart. Kara Swisher · 1:11:04 Okay. I'm losing you, Scott. Anyway, thank you for everyone who sent in video questions. Remember to send in video questions for next week's show. We have one more thing before we wrap up today's show. We were gonna, we have predictions really quickly, but Scott has disappeared once again for predictions. Alright. So now very quickly, we're going to do predictions, Scott. You're not out of here yet. We're very close to being out of here. Professor Galli, before we get to your prediction, we have another special guest who sent in a video with their prediction. Let's play it. Guest · 1:11:33 Hey. It's Roy Wood junior, and I'm gonna give you my prediction for the big four. Let's talk about Apple. Apple is a company that started with a nice, small, and compact iPhone. And then what happened? It started getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And now we have an iPhone X plus XLRR, whatever the hell, that's basically close to the size of an iPad. But now if you see what's happening, Apple's offering smaller phones now to say that they're more affordable, but what they're really doing is making everything small again. They're gonna be the first company to go from small to big, back to small, and make us buy everything a la carte. Because the first thing that they're doing now, because everybody's going to the universal charging ports now, think the USB Cs, they're called, Apple, is not going to include a charger, or at least that's the rumor. They're not gonna include a charger with the next version of the iPhone. So now you got to buy the phone, then you got to go buy a case, then you got to buy a charger, then you know the next thing they're gonna do, they're gonna separate the cord from the plug. So now you got to buy iPhone, then you gotta buy iPhone plug, then you gotta buy iPhone cord. How soon today just selling us the glass and then you just got to assemble your phone at the house by yourself like a damn puzzle. That's where we headed. Alright. I gotta go check on my child, man. Scott Galloway · 1:12:49 What was that? What just happened there? Kara Swisher · 1:12:51 That was Roy Wood junior, a great stand up comedian and correspondent for The Daily Show. Alright, Scott. He's very funny. What's your prediction? Very quick. Quick. Quick. Quick. Quick. Please. — Predictions segment begins — Scott Galloway · 1:13:02 Trillions of dollars in shareholder value being moved to the home. Connected Devices, Peloton, or Sonos acquired by the end of the year? Kara Swisher · 1:13:09 Oh, that's a big one. What... Can't just drop that and run by whom? By whom? Whom? I'm usually wrong. Cool. Each of them Scott Galloway · 1:13:17 move is what? The really... The obvious acquirer for Peloton would be Apple. Kara Swisher · 1:13:21 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Scott Galloway · 1:13:22 I actually I think the gangster move here would be Netflix to acquire Spotify and then acquire Sonos and have vertical distribution that have content on the back end, they'd have and then they'd have a distribution with a device and both Netflix and Spotify need that. I just... Sonos is 1,400,000,000. It's just so ripe. It's it's the apple of sound, if you will, in people's homes. Kara Swisher · 1:13:43 I have someone waiting to finish setting up my system today. Scott Galloway · 1:13:46 It's a great it's a great brand. It's it just seems to me just to be so ripe. And Peloton, the workout from home space, think about literally, think about the sweating industrial complex has literally collapsed, but people are working out more, which means there's going to be an unbelievable transition in shareholder value and who's sitting there is kind of the coolest brand. By the way, the NPS scores, another prediction, Peloton, Peloton, Kara Swisher · 1:14:10 you know Scott Galloway · 1:14:10 what their business they're going to get into? Dating. They have a rabid community of like minded fitness people, they'll start they'll call it something and they'll get into they could put Tinder out of business, Peloton dating. — Predictions segment ends — Kara Swisher · 1:14:21 Well, that's interesting because I am in love with Ali Love. Yes. You're right. I love Peloton. I love the product more than anything. I've owned it a long, long time, and I know I'm an elite person, but it's the most satisfying product I've owned in a long time. Scott Galloway · 1:14:33 Thank you. Dom Swisher. Lady Dom Swisher. Kara Swisher · 1:14:35 Dame. Alright, Scott. Next week is our... That's all we have today for Pivot School. Next week, our final episode of Pivot School, we'll be talking about education and recovery. Our friends of Pivot will be the president of Howard University nearby, my house here, doctor Wayne Frederick, and he's... He is amazing, and the superintendent of the Los Angeles Unified School District, Austin Buettner. This is happening on Wednesday, September 2. Education's a big topic for Scott and for me too, at 1PM eastern. You can send in a video question for next week's episode to school@voxmedia.com. We really appreciate it. We're sorry you went long today, but, really, we don't. We're not sorry. We're not sorry. But, Scott, that was a really good prediction. We're gonna talk about it later. And Scott will be back on the main show next week. But this week, we have, Varitundi Thurston, who's a... Who's our guest host, and we're having a lovely time without you. But I miss you, and I can't wait to get back. Can't believe I just said that publicly. Shoot. Anyhow, Scott, you're frozen again. You're frozen again. So leave it with that. Alright. Thank you everyone for coming. We really appreciate it, and we'll be back next week. Good. You... Scott missed my my little love letter to him, and that's all he's gonna get from me. Scott Galloway · 1:15:46 Alright. Thanks, everyone. Saucy minks. Kara Swisher · 1:15:48 He didn't he didn't hear it. He didn't hear it. It never happened. Scott Galloway · 1:15:51 Bye, everybody. Kara Swisher · 1:15:52 Okay. Alright. Thanks, everybody. The dog. Scott Galloway · 1:15:54 Thanks so much for everyone who joined us live for PIVOT Schools. Remember that if you paid for a ticket to the live show, you can watch the video replays of all five episodes at pivotschool.com. And more importantly, I am surrounding you with white light. That's worth a lot. You can also buy Pivot School swag at pivotschool.com/shop.