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Kara Swisher · 40:54
Okay, Scott. We're back. We're just gonna deal with one big story this week. A bill requiring TikTok's parent company ByteDance to sell the app within a hundred and eighty days or risk having it banned in The US has passed through the house. It's on its way to the senate where it's going to slow considerably. But the legislation had significant amount of bipartisan support in the house, passing with a sweeping margin of 352 to 65. Its future, again, in the senate is uncertain. Rand Paul is against it. It's not clear what Chuck Schumer's doing. He's gonna put it up. Very short time span. But but president Biden said he would sign it if it makes it to his desk. We knew the bill would pass. We said that at South by Southwest. Senate majority leader, again, Chuck Schumer hasn't committed. Paul is is going to call the bill a draconian measure that stifles free expression. TikTok said in a statement, it hopes that the senate will consider the facts, listen to their constituents, and realize the impact on the economy and the 178,000,000 Americans who use our service. It's a couple things. Again, it may not at all pass, but there's there's all... You know, they've been trying to enlist, as you said, you noted your own team to call in. That sort of backfired, I think, here. And a lot of people are... Half the people are saying national security risk. Half the people are saying free speech. It should be able to continue. Any thoughts on the passing? And then I have one more question about it.
Scott Galloway · 42:11
I think... I I mean, I'm I'm really hoping for it. I don't think I don't think America has... I I think that we elect people to think long term and prevent a tragedy of the commons and protect our borders. And one of our Achilles heel as Americans is we're hugely optimistic, which is our superpower. But the downside of that is that Americans are easier to fool than convinced we've been fooled. And the fact that we have let the CCP or a CCP influenced entity implant a neural jack into... Of our youth under the age of 25 for several hours a day, that's just a risk we shouldn't we shouldn't tolerate. So I think for the first time in a long time, we're gonna see our elected leaders quite frankly do their job as it relates to social media. And unfortunately, there's some basis in what I'll call jingoism or just anti Chinese sentiment. I don't care. But also, the only other observation I would make here is that Prime Minister Sunak essentially said he's gonna move forward legislation to not allow a Gulf backed entity by a very powerful newspaper there.
Kara Swisher · 43:15
This is Jeff Zucker's thing. Jeff Zucker and, is it Abu Dhabi? Abu Dhabi.
Scott Galloway · 43:19
Yeah. And to be honest, I I think America still... California sort of leads the way for America. It always has. And America leads the way for the world. And I gotta believe that the prime minister and his cabinet looked at the fact that we're pushing back on a foreign entity controlling our media and said, you know, they're right, and we can't have the same thing here. As much as I love Jeff Zucker, and I want him to be successful and he will, there's something there's something uncomfortable about foreign entities that maybe don't share our concerns having that kind of influence.
Kara Swisher · 43:47
Well, it's interesting. There there has been a little bit of pushback because, you know, there are there are, the foreign entities that own newspapers and things like that or different things. It's in broadcast that it's been very
Scott Galloway · 43:57
Not of its dominance.
Kara Swisher · 43:58
That's loosened up. Yeah. But I have to say, this is broadcast. I'm sorry. This is a version of broadcast, and that's what it is. And so we've always been very particular around broadcast, less so around newspaper.
Scott Galloway · 44:08
Well, Rupert Murdoch had to become an American citizen and sell off to it. I mean, this isn't new. Yeah. This isn't... And, anyway, I... I'm I'm really hopeful about this. And, also, I think it's gonna be... Words matter. We really screwed up calling it a ban. They should've just called it regulation. You know?
Kara Swisher · 44:26
Yeah. It's regular... Regulation. It'll be interesting. I think you're right. I think there's a couple congress... I have to say they haven't been too jingoistic. There was a congressperson that was on Thursday, she said, who did a great explanation of why she voted for it. She's like, it's a national security issue. Even if they didn't do it, they could. That's right. Doesn't... Like, don't be silly. And it was interesting. I thought she didn't... And let me just say, the other thing is, it's not going away, kids. It's not going away. This will not be You're going gonna have your TikTok. It's you're gonna have your TikTok. And that's... That is... I talked to some people at TikTok. I was like, stop saying it's going away. It's not going away. It's just not. It's simply not. Now whether the Chinese government will make a move, I don't think they have a move, and you both of us don't. But there are a lot of moves. Former treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin to... Just told m b... CNBC a little while ago that he's building an investor group to acquire network. Bobby Kotick's name has been raised raised. There's all kinds
Scott Galloway · 45:15
of shortage of money here.
Guest · 45:15
Trying to No
Kara Swisher · 45:16
shortage of money. So some analysts estimate The US portion of TikTok could be worth more than 50,000,000,000. One of those investors is Jeff Yast and ByteDance. Obviously, this is why president Trump shifted his stance on this because he used to be... He's the one that really brought this up in the first place. Also, Kellyanne Conway, one of his advisers is working... Seems to be working against these these bills. And, you know, also, there's all... And then Oracle... It's an Oracle's interest, Larry Ellison's in support of them, to keep Project Texas going, which is to clean up, keep it in Chinese hands, and and have a separate thing. It's a billion dollar contract. So it's in... President Trump is so mobbed up here in terms of money. It's kinda crazy. But what what what do you think of the deals? Like, give me a very... I don't... I think whatever China does, it doesn't matter. They don't have they don't have a say anymore.
Scott Galloway · 46:07
Well, the the thing that the thing that for me literally crystallized and brought into sharp relief the problem, My 13 year old son got a message from TikTok saying saying, stop the TikTok ban. Are you down with the GRU and Putin being able to directly reach out to our children and get them to take political action? Is that... Even if you put it all aside, the go to here is trade symmetry, and that's actually the kind of the the the crux of the bill that won't run afoul First Amendment. We should allow BYD, electric car company from China, into our country because they allow Tesla into theirs. We should allow Xi'an in because they allow the North Face into China. They would never allow an American media company in. Their version of TikTok is science experiments, astronauts, pianists. They get the spinach version. They ship us the opium version.
Kara Swisher · 47:01
Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. What what will China do? Someone was like, what will China do? I'm like, well, you know, they'll kick our social media sites out of their... Oh, wait. We're not
Scott Galloway · 47:09
gonna ten years ago.
Kara Swisher · 47:10
What? Like, what are they gonna go for Apple? They're not gonna do that. Anyway, one of the things though I have to say, Alex Damos, is a great smart guy, he did make a good point here on threads. He goes, that's why it's incredibly important to get this TikTok bill right. The focus on speech instead of privacy, the specific naming of ByteDance when neutral criteria would clearly suffice, and the pulling in of American tech companies via the apps to our provisions are all serious weak points. A federal privacy bill that protects users' data and also controls data flow to our adversaries would be more defensible and comprehensible. I think he's kind of right there, and he said there are thousands of Chinese companies to be concerned about, and I hope the senate takes the house's initial offer and strengthens this bill. Also, it's been done before with Grindr. We've done this. We've done it with other companies, many times before. So this is this is not unprecedented for our government to do this. In any case, we'll see where it goes. Should you and I put together a plan and buy it? What do think? Like, what a consortium? We do a speech with Don Limon.
Scott Galloway · 48:07
There's gonna be With D my gosh.
Kara Swisher · 48:09
With D Limon.
Scott Galloway · 48:10
Once it becomes... I can't imagine how many people with deep pockets. First off, Sequoia and General Atlantic Partners are already in there. There's gonna be absolutely no shortage of people willing to put together a consortium. There's gonna be
Kara Swisher · 48:23
So you don't think we can? Yeah. Okay.
Scott Galloway · 48:25
There's gonna be a bidding war for this. This is Yeah. This is
Kara Swisher · 48:29
I bet Musk comes
Guest · 48:30
in here speaking of people. He'll probably want
Scott Galloway · 48:32
it. That just means there's there's fame involved. He comes into everything. So you're not gonna lose your TikTok. You're not gonna lose your TikTok.
Guest · 48:39
Microsoft should go in here. That's what I think.
Scott Galloway · 48:42
Well, there's a bunch. There's I
Kara Swisher · 48:43
mean, it'll be... They'll be they'll be people big and small. We'll see. Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. I get so many headaches every month.
Guest · 48:55
It could be chronic migraine 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more.
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Guest · 49:45
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— Predictions segment begins —
Kara Swisher · 50:46
Okay, Scott. Let's hear a prediction.
Scott Galloway · 50:49
Well, my prediction is very straightforward. You can buy... Even though ByteDance is a private firm, you can buy shares of it in the private market because there are now these secondary markets that have emerged. And what they do is when employees wanna get some liquidity because companies are waiting longer and longer to go public, they can sell their shares to... In the open market or on a... In the secondary market. And the the valuation of ByteDance right now in the secondary market, I believe, is somewhere between 220 and 250,000,000,000. The ban is going to take the value... Send the value of ByteDance shares soaring, and this is why. ByteDance or TikTok specifically is the most ascendant social media platform of the last ten
Kara Swisher · 51:32
years. Flattening. Usage is flattening, just so you know. But go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 51:35
Oh, the... This... Globally, TikTok, 1,700,000,000 peep. And just as a user, it's extraordinary. Its revenues are skyrocketing. I think it... I mean, it might be flattening from a usage standpoint because almost everybody's on it in The US. But my point is, if you compare it on any metric to the valuation that its best analog meta gets, it's extraordinarily cheap. Now why is it cheap? Because of the cloud of overhang of uncertainty around a possible ban. Once that is removed, once it is, quote, unquote, banned slash regulated, and they figure out an accommodation with The US, which they will, you're gonna see the shares in the value of ByteDance skyrocket. So my prediction is the following. Distinct of all the clutching of our pearls, you are about to see the value of ByteDance increase dramatically.
— Predictions segment ends —
Kara Swisher · 52:24
Alright. That's a good prediction. That's an excellent prediction. I think you're a 100% right. Okay. Before we go, we have to say congratulations to us. We won the best news podcast at the iHeart podcast awards. Scott accepted it and showed off his guns. I don't know what that picture was about. How was that? Was that a great moment for you?
Scott Galloway · 52:43
Know, Carrie, you know what was you know what was really just so impressive? How it was?
Kara Swisher · 52:48
Seeing me so much. But go ahead.
Scott Galloway · 52:50
That... But see... But we beat The Daily, and we beat Pod Save America.
Kara Swisher · 52:55
Take that, Michael Barbarro. Who else did we beat? The Pod
Scott Galloway · 52:59
Save I I was I was shocked because quite frankly, I I think The Daily is outstanding. I think they do a fair Yeah.
Kara Swisher · 53:05
We're outstanding.
Scott Galloway · 53:05
Job. But that was... Look. It was really it was really rewarding. Now granted, I had just... I had literally three hours later done ketamine therapy, so I was especially grateful.
Kara Swisher · 53:15
Oh my god. We didn't discuss it. You have to talk about it very briefly. I'm sorry. We have to take more time here for a second.
Scott Galloway · 53:21
Maybe we should wait till... I I don't know if there's if there's a way to briefly describe it, so maybe we should do it on another show.
Kara Swisher · 53:26
Okay. Next show, everybody. I have to say everywhere I stop, people have asked me about your ketamine therapy, so we're gonna it front and center of our next show. Anyway, we wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 Okay, Scott. That's the show. The next one will be all about Scott. We'll be back on Tuesday, as I said, with more PIVOT. Read us out.
Scott Galloway · 53:52
Today's show was produced by Lara Niemann, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Tratta engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Miel Severo. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kids, don't worry. Trust me. Uncle Scott is guaranteeing is promising you, you're not gonna lose your TikTok.
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