Pivot · Feb 3, 2023

Meta Shakes Off the FTC, and AAG Jonathan Kanter takes on Google

Automatic transcript of the end of the episode, from 52:09. Speakers are labeled by software and may contain errors. Highlighted passages are Scott’s predictions.

Scott Galloway · 52:09 We get here? How did we get so far down the down the road where it feels like the abuses have gotten so brazen? Kara Swisher · 52:15 Yeah. And just to point out, the government hasn't successfully prosecuted a monopoly since Microsoft, as you noted, twenty one years ago, twenty two years ago, and it hasn't broken up a con... Company since AT and T. Guest · 52:28 Yeah. Well, part of... Kara Swisher · 52:29 1984, by the way. Guest · 52:31 When when you... When you're... You don't use muscles, they atrophy. I I know that from my own personal life. And and so, you know, we have to be willing to use the tools that congress gave us. And if you're not bringing cases, you're not gonna get outcomes. And so, you know, Kara Swisher · 52:49 start But why? He's asking why. Scott Galloway · 52:51 But isn't it more than that? Is it money? Is it that consumers love these companies and there isn't enough public support? I mean, it just... It feels like antitrust just slowly but surely lost its mojo. Guest · 53:01 Well, it goes back to the conversation... The beginning of our conversation, which is, you know, there became this sort of movement against enforcement. And it led to, and I've talked about this publicly, a mood that erred toward under enforcement even when violations of the law were clear based on key longstanding principles of antitrust and sound economics. What we see now is, I think, more courage in the willingness to use the law when it's the appropriate tool. Again, I wanna be very clear. We follow the facts and the law wherever it takes us, and we look at every case on its own merits. But we have to be willing to use the laws that congress gave us in order for those laws to be effective. And I think, you know, that's what we're we're doing here, and and I think we're being successful. We're we're bringing cases. We brought more monopolization cases in the last year, yeah, than we had in the prior twenty five years before that, including two criminal monopolization cases. We are... We blocked the... A large publisher merger. Kara Swisher · 54:10 This is Simon and Schuster Guest · 54:13 Yeah. Kara Swisher · 54:13 And Penguin House, Random House. Guest · 54:14 Yeah. On a theory that was not just focusing on what people pay for books but was focused on the ability of authors to have advances and to get the kind of compensation they deserve to fund the creation of the content that's necessary for that important market. We've blocked two shipping mergers that relate to supply chain, including one that would have allowed a Chinese company to control significant portion of refrigerated shipping containers. These are... And we are taking a more principled and sound approach toward merger remedies where simply we're always happy to listen and entertain remedies for mergers, but we're not willing to accept remedies that present unnecessary risk for the American public. We're also revising our merger guidelines. These are a tool that the agencies use to sort of set forth and explain to the world, businesses, their own staffs, courts, how we enforce the law. We did a public comment period for our merger guidelines, and we received over 5,000 comments from the public. By way of comparison, the last time around, I think we got about 100 about fifteen years ago. And so we're actively taking steps to redefine and rethink how we approach the law so that it's more faithful to the... To precedent, more faithful to congress. Kara Swisher · 55:43 So there's also, though, the heft they have. Now there's two things I see that you have a problem. One is big tech has a lot of money, as Todd just noted, but they also argue, talk about innovation almost constantly, that they need this. That's always their argument. They're already being regulated by the marketplace, and let's believe in the marketplace. You know, Facebook can say, TikTok, look, they're suddenly out of nowhere and now they're a huge hit. Apple's app tracking transparency did a lot of damage in a single update than the regulation has done in years. Although I've asked Tim Cook about this and he said, I don't want to be the chief regulator of The United States. I really don't. This is not my job. And, you know, even Macon and Delrahim, your predecessor, had said the slow role of these companies of how much money they have and how much time and how long these cases take to happen is problematic for the government. And related to that, it's that maybe judges are not so amenable to this, that you have a real problem with judges. This just happened to Lina Khan this week with Facebook, got pushed back on a purchase of a Oculus type developer that they bought to... Supernatural to make it better for... To use VR. So how do you look at those two twins, this idea of slow roll and the money they have and, hey, the market's already taking care of it, and having judges being open to this idea? Guest · 56:59 So these are challenging questions for us, but ultimately, it's it's our responsibility. And I think the only way for us to have meaningful impact is for us to use the laws that congress gave us and to use them as effectively as possible when it's the right thing to do. Kara Swisher · 57:17 What do you say to their marketplace? Lobbyists are lobbyists, and they've got a lot of them, obviously, and there's nothing to be done about that on some level, although there certainly should be. Their idea that the marketplace has taken care of it. Now look at Facebook's down this much percent. There's lots of competition here, etcetera. AI, they'll have the same arguments going on. They're... We're viciously fighting each other. It's all giants fighting each other, but it's... They're fighting each other. Guest · 57:44 Yeah. Well, I think it goes back to what you're saying earlier is that... Well, one is it really depends on the market. We have to look at each market on its own merits and its own facts. But this idea that somebody can just use the word innovation and then magically think that they can convince antitrust enforcers not to act, I don't know that that was ever the case, but it's certainly not the case now. The fact of the matter is we've... Know, if there's comp... If... You can't have competition without competitors. And, you know, we're looking around the economy, we're seeing more concentration than we have in generations. And I think that's something that the public understands. We're Kara Swisher · 58:19 And judges, I mean, can you comment on the Facebook decision, the most recent one? Guest · 58:23 So I haven't read the Facebook decision. It's still under seal. That's a different agency. I look forward to reading Kara Swisher · 58:28 CFTC, Lina. Guest · 58:29 Yeah. One of the things I will certainly be looking for as I read it is not just the outcome, but it's also the reasoning that the court used to reach that outcome. And so from a, you know, forward looking perspective, you know, there are instances, for example, where courts will not agree on the facts but perhaps endorse a legal approach that an agency took or reject it, and I think we need to see that. My view is if we see a violation of the law and we think it's appropriate to act, we have to act. And it's our job to figure out how to bring those cases to courts, to judges, and to juries. And that's Kara Swisher · 59:07 what we do. A fear, though? I mean, Lina Khan has said we have to go out there even if we lose even if we lose some. That's something I think she said publicly. Guest · 59:15 Yeah. We bring cases to win. Right? Kara Swisher · 59:17 Just wanna be Guest · 59:18 I get it. Yeah. I get it. So our... That's our job. And when we file a case, it's because we believe we will win and we should win. And in instances where we don't, we, you know, understand, we we we assess the outcome, but we're also not afraid to move forward and bring additional cases if we think it's the right thing to do. But we play to win. Scott Galloway · 59:38 So just to bring it down to kind of a worker level, and this is something close to my heart as I've been subject to them, We talk about anticompetitive behavior in the context that it's a bad thing. And yet in almost every acquisition, dozens, if not hundreds of employees are subject to something actually called a noncompete. And I was really heartened to see that the FTC is talking about action or legislation to eradicate non competes. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I know it's not the DOJ, it's the FTC here. I'd love to hear your thoughts on non competes and what you think the likelihood is that they'll be outlawed. Guest · 1:00:16 So I'll let others run the assessment on the likelihood there, but we've made labor and the rights of workers to benefit from competition a top priority here at the division. We've brought cases, wage fixing, no poaching agreements. We filed amicus briefs. We focused on the gig economy. Competition benefits everybody. A competition of benefits people. That includes people who buy things, but also includes workers. When you have more options to go work somewhere, you get a better salary. You get better benefits. You get better opportunities. You get better choice of where you wanna live. Like, these are things that affect real people, and and we absolutely have to focus on that. To me, it's a centerpiece of our enforcement agenda. Kara Swisher · 1:01:09 This week, the Department of Commerce issued a report criticizing the control of app stores, Apple and Google, and calling for more antitrust action. What do you make of that report, and where are those actions? Where is where is... With Apple, I think... Is Amazon with the FTC? I forget how you split it up. Yeah. Guest · 1:01:25 I I can't comment on that, but I appreciate the question. We read that report with great interest. Kara Swisher · 1:01:31 What does that mean? Whatever you want it to mean, Kara. Alright. Would you like to would you like to refer... Would you like... Jonathan behind him has has an obsession with a hippo in Cleveland named Fiona. Cincinnati. Cincinnati. Excuse Guest · 1:01:45 I I will defer to my my friend, Fiona the hippo, who is a whimsical and wonderful hippo in the Cincinnati zoo. Kara Swisher · 1:01:53 Do you have any broad thoughts on that idea of app stores or if there are remedies for those? Because it's very hard because there are only two phones. There really are and that's it. Guest · 1:02:04 Yeah. Well, that report was the outgrowth of an executive order by president Biden to look at that issue, and I think it's a very important issue. It's one that we're very aware of, and beyond that, I can't confirm or deny the existence of any investigations or actions. Kara Swisher · 1:02:26 Alright. What about partisanship? How do you feel... There's always been a problem around... Obviously, the Supreme Court's gonna hear a two thirty argument very soon. There's all kinds of things happening there. But each side has a different opinion of section two thirty, although they all seem to want it gone in some fashion. Does partisanship really affect this, or are the sides together? And will that... If that happens, what will that mean for your cases and everything else? Because liability opens up. And then Guest · 1:02:57 Yeah. So I'll I'll stay away from the the two thirty issue specifically. But in terms of partisanship, I've been really heartened by the broad continuum of support across the... Or the support across the political continuum. I have wonderful discussions with people on all sides of the aisle about these issues. I think there's a greater appreciation that free markets require competition. And so think the work that we're doing is, in my view, law enforcement. Again, in my lifetime, I don't think I've ever seen the level of support for the work that we're undertaking from so many different corners of the country and in so many different points along the political spectrum. Scott Galloway · 1:03:44 So if we're talking about... I I agree. Competition, full stop, is good. And if we're talking about an assault on the middle class through a lack of competition, and that's resulted in an increase of prices of 1400% over the last thirty or forty years, I would argue that higher education is literally makes OPEC look like a weak cartel. We all raise prices exactly the same amount every year. What a coincidence, we raise prices 4% and every other university raises prices 4%. Not three, not five. We have accreditation run by the incumbents that basically says which students at which universities qualify for federal funding. I mean, isn't higher ed the monopoly or the anti competitive structure to end all anti competitive structures that has just been horrible for middle class households? Do you agree with that? And if so, does the government have any plans to to potentially file an action against higher education? Guest · 1:04:50 Yeah. Well, certainly, if we did, I I couldn't say so, Scott. So I'll I'll I'll pause and let your comments speak for themselves, and they're, you know, duly noted. I will say I do want to point to your point about the middle class and competition working for people. This is why I'm here. I grew up as middle class as you can get in Queens, in an apartment, in school teacher parents. I have a deep belief in the American dream. To me, the American dream is about opportunity. It's about the opportunity to build your own business, get an education, pick your own path. And so I do believe that you need a competitive economy in order for that opportunity to exist regardless of whether you're growing up in Queens, Iowa, San Francisco, or Austin, or Dallas. It doesn't matter. And so I think it's important that we are very focused and thoughtful about issues that affect economic and opportunity for everybody. Scott Galloway · 1:05:57 I love that. But just a more pointed question, do you think higher education reflects the type of competitive market we wanna see? Guest · 1:06:04 I'll defer to Kara and my hippo, Fiona, on that question. Kara Swisher · 1:06:09 Oh, no. Oh, dear. I have a final question about AI because, obviously, it's getting a lot of attention now with ChatGPT, which is doing an excellent marketing job of of seeming like it's changing the world when it's still very small. But you can see it happening that way. You can see that trending in a way that looks like early search or early ad tech. Is that something you need to be looking into now before... You know, OpenAI was created so there would be competition. Right? That was the concept when Elon Musk, in fact, funded it. Is that a problem now that Microsoft now is gonna own this thing or is gonna be a big part of it? Is this something you need to be looking at now or doing something about? Guest · 1:06:51 So let me zoom out a level. I've talked a lot about the importance of new technologies disrupting, and I think we need to preserve opportunities for new technology to change the competitive paradigm. But one of the things I remember giving a talk about this ten years ago is that if you look at revolutionary theory, after a revolution, what does the new leader care about most? The next revolution. It's important to make sure that we preserve those inflection points. But if we've learned anything from the last thirty years, it's that we have to understand those market realities and make sure that we enforce those market realities. Just because something new and competitive comes along, let me say that's great. We want to encourage that. But on the other hand, we need to make sure that the next platform is allowed to give rise to future platforms and to future technologies and competitors. When it comes to AI, we are hiring technologists, which we've never had here before. We're hiring AI experts. We are understanding the market realities that flow from the feedbacks connected with machine learning and... Are... You know, those positive feedback effects are more powerful than we've probably ever seen in our lifetimes, and and they're only gonna get stronger. And so we have to understand that, and we have to be willing to have an enforcement program that's tethered to those realities. Kara Swisher · 1:08:14 Early on. Early on. Absolutely. If appropriate. My final question is about China. One of the other things they put up all the time, and obviously there's a lot of China activity in congress with their China commission... Committee. Is that a good excuse by the tech companies? I've heard it from Mark directly or various people. How do you respond when they say, We've got to be national winners here because we got China. Guest · 1:08:40 The way to compete against China is not to look more like China. It's to look more like ourselves. The foundation for our economy and for our democracy and our nation's success is innovation, it's freedom, it's openness, it's opportunity. We will be best and we will be most competitive when we allow those values to shine and rise to the surface. Scott Galloway · 1:09:04 What can consumers do? Or what would you ask of Americans who buy into this notion that competition is good and a lack of it has hurt workers, middle class? What would you ask of us? Guest · 1:09:15 Speak up. Speak up. Kara Swisher · 1:09:17 Does it matter? Guest · 1:09:18 Yes. It matters. So one of the problems that I believe has happened over the last thirty years is antitrust has become the domain of the elite class. And we've stopped thinking about how it affects real people, but instead have made it into this laboratory experiment that is often detached from reality. And I think we need consumers, we need market participants, we need workers saying how these things actually affect real people in order for us to be more tethered to that reality. And so, yeah, it makes a difference, and it is making a difference because we're listening. And for the first time in a while, or I wouldn't say for the first time in a while, at least what we are doing affirmatively is making sure that we're going out and accessing broader range of opinions. We're speaking to broader portions of our country. We're speaking to different communities, not just folks who can hire lawyers for $2,000 an hour to come talk to us. We think in order to be effective, we have to engage with farmers. We have to engage with folks from across the country, all different ways of life and stripes. Kara Swisher · 1:10:28 And I would note that you have the anti monopoly game behind you, which is kind of cute, but the ant... The antitrust bill did not pass congress. Do you need that? Guest · 1:10:38 We were full throated in our support for that bill, and we will continue to support or provide technical assistance and I'll leave that to others. In this job, my job is to enforce the laws that Congress writes, and so we're going to Were Kara Swisher · 1:10:52 you surprised it didn't pass? Guest · 1:10:54 I'll leave that to others. Again, we we were supportive. The attorney general is supportive. We think it it would have been helpful. But in the absence of new legislators, that's ultimately... It's up to congress. They have to make that decision. They write the laws we don't, and so we just enforce them. Kara Swisher · 1:11:11 One of the things that had been talked about when you came in is that there were mags about law firm, I think it was Cantor Wu, Khan or something like that, which was the three of your names, that's Lena Khan, your name, and Tim Wu. Tim has left the White House. I did an interview with him recently. Lena is is at the FTC. She's she's working on a number of cases. How closely do you work together? How how... Is is that something that happens, or do you work separately or figure out... Just split things up and go that way? Guest · 1:11:43 So our our work on enforcement is independent. So we we investigate our our cases independently and pursue our cases independently. And the FTC, there's a lot of coordination with respect to policy issues. For example, the merger guidelines is something that we're doing with the FTC. We work on policy initiatives with the FTC. We have some degree of overlapping jurisdictions, we have to work out who's gonna investigate what. But ultimately, when when the rubber hits... Meets the road, we're focused on on on our own investigations. And and so so there is some degree of court... Of of collaboration with our our partners at the... Enforcement partners at the commission. In terms of enforcement actions, though, I I should be very clear, are done independent of of the White House or Kara Swisher · 1:12:29 And so so the attacks by by tech on all of you, actually, especially you and Lina that you're fave... You know, that you're against tech, etcetera, did they land in any way from your perspective? Guest · 1:12:41 I keep my head down and focus on doing the job. I mean, that's all I can do. So, again, I think the most important thing that we can do is just really follow the facts and make the right decisions for the right reasons. And so... You know, and and try to fan out the noise. Kara Swisher · 1:12:59 Alright. Thank you. Is it honorable assistant attorney general Jonathan Kanto? Guest · 1:13:05 Really just Jonathan. Kara Swisher · 1:13:06 But Okay. Alright. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. What a what a fascinating time. Scott Galloway · 1:13:12 Thanks for fighting the good fight, Jonathan. Kara Swisher · 1:13:14 What a fascinating time. Guest · 1:13:16 So delighted to be with you. First time, long time. Kara Swisher · 1:13:19 Okay. Alright, John. And thanks so much. Guest · 1:13:21 Take care. Bye bye. Kara Swisher · 1:13:22 Alright, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. [Ad break] — Predictions segment begins — Kara Swisher · 1:14:42 Alright. Wins and tails. You go first. Scott Galloway · 1:14:45 My win is just the agility of The US economy, and that is... You I've always said the faster an economy can fire people, the faster it can hire them. We have between what I think is a mascot for all the criticism Chairman Powell gets, the whole world holds their breath to see what he's doing. And it looks like he has aggressively raised interest rates, some of the most unprecedented historic increases in interest rates. And what do you know? Inflation is starting to come down as fast as it went up. These companies, capitalist, American capitalist companies, read the tea leaves, they are not afraid to make crisp, aggressive moves. We have effectively, again, potentially, we might avoid a recession. It looks like we're growing again. The markets appear to love this. It looks like Chairman Powell has done his job and might be able to slow the increase in interest rates or even saying by end of the year, maybe beginning of next year, he might actually bring interest rates down. I mean, there is just no economy that has the leadership at a federal level, that has the amount of capital innovation, and quite frankly, the agility. We're just... In the... In in in Europe, there would be strikes and government would weigh in and say, can't fire these people, and they would turn it into some big drawn out soap opera that got in the way of these private sector companies making these hard but important and probably correct decisions. And by the way, what is the technology that everyone is talking about right now? Oh, OpenAI. And where is that? Oh, it's in The US, of course. So just the agility, the innovation, the leadership at a federal level, I just think we are the triangle of innovation and agility Kara Swisher · 1:16:32 And we're at each other's throats at the same time, which is Scott Galloway · 1:16:34 But that's what's so sad. Kara Swisher · 1:16:37 Yeah. It's ridiculous. Scott Galloway · 1:16:39 The biggest threat to America is not an external force. It's not an invading army. It's not the CCP. It's not Putin. Kara Swisher · 1:16:45 I know. A little bit China, but go ahead. Scott Galloway · 1:16:47 It's that we have decided through our media and our algorithms to pit one another against each other. Yeah. And that is the biggest threat. It's like the call is coming from inside of the house, and we catastrophize everything, everything, and then blame each other. Kara Swisher · 1:17:05 Although Putin's still a rogue. He's turned into a rogue as your friend Ian Bremmer talks about. Scott Galloway · 1:17:10 That's so Yeah. But you have one party who wants to cozy up to him because they see an opportunity to pit them... To make Democrats look bad. It's just... Okay. That makes no fucking sense. If we can't unify around a murderous autocrat, what can Kara Swisher · 1:17:23 we unify? Okay. You stop doing the Hunter Biden thing. We'll stop doing the whatever George Santos thing. You stop doing that. We could give we could have, like, a thing where we give in, and we just have to say bygones on that. No? You don't think that's Scott Galloway · 1:17:38 gonna happen? So my loss or my fail is... I don't know if you saw the clip of Kevin McCarthy, but he has passed in in the house a repeal of the increase in funding to the IRS. And it just shocks me that the Republican Party has been so effective. Kara Swisher · 1:17:54 It's not going anywhere. Scott Galloway · 1:17:55 I'm sorry? Kara Swisher · 1:17:56 It's not going anywhere. He passed it. It doesn't mean the Senate's Scott Galloway · 1:17:58 I know. But, yeah, the Senate's not... I I think I think... I don't... I think it'll it'll hit a brick wall in the Senate. It'll be a partisan vote just as this one else. But he stood up there, and he said, promises promises made. Right? First off, the speaker is is supposed to be somewhat apolitical. You just don't say Kara Swisher · 1:18:15 that pass legislation. Scott Galloway · 1:18:16 You're just supposed to take the votes and sit the fuck down. Anyways... But this notion... The Republican Party is so effective. They essentially... They represent the top 1%, full stop, and they manage to convince people on the lower income side that they're representing them. And the notion that the IRS has is some sort of, like, demonic force here to harass American households. Defunding the IRS is nothing but a but a tax increase on lower middle income homes. Because here's the thing, the rich have figured out a way with their lobbyists and corporations to take the tax code from 400 pages to 4,000. So to audit a wealthy person or a corporation takes an army of skilled auditors that are expensive. So what happens? All the technology and all the automation has increased the audit rates of lower middle income homes who cannot get away with any sort of tax avoidance, but they don't have the resources to go after the top 1%. And it's estimated that every year, the top 1% avoid about $160,000,000,000 in taxes because there's no cop on the beat. And it just amazes me that the American people and Republicans feel like they have brilliantly positioned the IRS as some sort of invading army. No, they're not. When you defund the IRS, you are raising taxes on the lower and middle income household. Because if the 1% and corporations don't pay their fair share... By the way, 50% of all profits from US corporations have been offshore to lower tax domains. It's a zero sum game, folks. Small and medium sized businesses and lower and middle income households, if big business and the top 1% don't pay their taxes because there's no enforcement, then guess who pays more? — Predictions segment ends — Kara Swisher · 1:20:01 I'm still riveted by his Ozempic face, Kevin McCarthy. His friend Elon must have given it to him. Elon's talked publicly about taking Wegovy and Ozempic and fasting and stuff, but Kevin McCarthy's clearly borrowing some of his or something. I keep staring at it. I'm like, okay, sure, sir. I'm sure he's counting his calories. Guest · 1:20:21 I have Scott Galloway · 1:20:22 no idea what you're talking about. Kara Swisher · 1:20:23 I'm... He's skinny. He's he's lost enormous amounts of weight. You haven't Guest · 1:20:26 noticed I Scott Galloway · 1:20:27 find that luxist. You said that about a woman, you'd be triggered. Kara Swisher · 1:20:30 No. I just... I'm gonna comment on it. It's... I think it's it's very strange. It's sudden weight loss. But nonetheless, looks great. It's performativeness. It's performativeness on behalf of the Republican Party. It's the same thing, is my fail, which is governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders endorsing legislation limiting drag performances. Really, Sarah? Is that a huge problem in Arkansas? Scott Galloway · 1:20:52 Let's enrage. Let's demonize the other side rather than focusing on real issues. Kara Swisher · 1:20:56 It's ridiculous. It's... Why don't you focus on, like, things that matter to actual people? It's like... I know she's gonna say this matters. This is not legislation. This is not legislation. Legislation helps people. Anyway, she endorsed this bill, these bills, and it's just... They haven't passed them yet, but it's just insane that this is what they're spending their time on. You know, again, it's going to happen the same way with this red wave thing that they thought was coming. People care about their pocketbooks. They care about their families. They are not obsessed with the things that these people are obsessed with. I am certain of this. I am certain of it. And we'll see where it goes, but this is also a state that elected Bill Clinton, so it certainly can go lots of different ways, this this state. In any case, this is not what makes you a great leader, this kind of thing. Scott Galloway · 1:21:44 I mean, I don't if you've heard the the rumor, but supposedly governor DeSantis was at some point a drag queen. He went by the stage name Misinformation. I don't think I'll be hard... I'll be here all week. Try Kara Swisher · 1:21:57 the This is a joke. Let's label this a joke. God, he'd be not... I'm not I'm not down with him. George Santos, though, was very good at karaoke. Did you listen to that? Very good. Good karaoke. I'd like to say something nice about everybody. Scott Galloway · 1:22:10 I I think that... I think George Santos is literally the best thing that's happened at the Democratic party in a long time. Kara Swisher · 1:22:15 I don't know. Scott Galloway · 1:22:16 We so much. Kara Swisher · 1:22:17 Every day, you're like, what? Scott Galloway · 1:22:19 What's my drag name? You know my drag name? Kara Swisher · 1:22:21 Stage name? Oh, no. What? Scott Galloway · 1:22:24 Jenna Talia. Oh, that's good. That's the Zacappa speaking. Kara Swisher · 1:22:31 God. Now I'm I'm about to talk about my three year old and peach pie, and you introduced that into the situation. Peach pie. I made a peach pie. I came home last night from Miami. I have a ton of work. Amanda said I'm procrastinating, And I baked a peach pie out of... I found frozen peaches in the fridge that I put in there this summer. They looked like a hunk of nothing, and I defrost them in Claire, and I made a delicious peach pie from scratch, and it was, delicious and fantastic. And it was so good. I was like, I made some... I even called Louie, I said, I made something as good as you made. And it was... Louie's my oldest son who's a cook. And I have to say the peach pie is my win of the week, and Clara was my helper in it, and it was delicious and it made me happy. And I wasn't on Twitter. I'm almost so much happier than making peach pie and not being on Twitter. That's really the goals in my life. Scott Galloway · 1:23:25 You know why I married a drag queen? Kara Swisher · 1:23:27 No. Scott Galloway · 1:23:28 No. Because they say because they say makeup sex is the best. I'm sorry. Kara Swisher · 1:23:33 On that note Scott Galloway · 1:23:34 I gotta pull us back from the peach pie win here. Kara Swisher · 1:23:37 I was trying to be wholesome, but nonetheless, you drag us back into filth and degradation where we belong, really. Scott Galloway · 1:23:44 Did you enjoy seeing me? We were together yesterday. That was nice, right? We were actually Kara Swisher · 1:23:48 Yes, I did. I liked it. I've gotta spend more time. We've gotta strategize. You and I Scott Galloway · 1:23:52 have We went to tiger twenty one. Therapy for rich people. Kara Swisher · 1:23:56 Was good. You know, I had one question on that thing from someone, it was really unpleasant question from a gay, it must've been a gay man about don't say gay, and I just didn't answer it. What I would like to say is like, I think it's a great thing. I'm like, yeah, covering up books is a great thing. It's a great lesson for kids, cover, and just because there's one picture of gay parents in it. Like, please, I'd like to take your children from you, but I can't. So anyway, I had a great time with you though, on the other hand. Times. It Scott Galloway · 1:24:25 was fun. Had a nice Yeah. Kara Swisher · 1:24:26 It fun. We had a good time. I like doing things together. We're going be doing more. More is coming. Live Karen Scott is going to is coming to your town soon. Where should we go first? Where should we go first? Let's go to Arkansas. Arkansas. Arkansas on drag. Scott Galloway · 1:24:41 Let's I have never been to Arkansas. Kara Swisher · 1:24:42 A casual in Arkansas. Scott Galloway · 1:24:44 Used to do... I used to wear drag all the time, and then the father of a trans person asked me not to, and so I stopped. Kara Swisher · 1:24:51 I know you did. If I put on a dress, it would seem like drag. Scott Galloway · 1:24:54 That would seem stranger than me putting on a dress. I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Kara Swisher · 1:24:57 That would seem so strange. Let me just say, we're going... We're coming to Arkansas, governor Huckabee Sanders, and we'll say Latinx whenever we feel like it, and we'll do all kinds of things and we'll talk how Black Lives Matter and all kinds of things like that. We'll have fun. We're coming. We're coming. We're so excited to go there. We're going to bring Hillary and Bill Clinton too. That'll be real. They'll be for our friends at Pivot. Let's have some fun. We're gonna do things like that. Scott Galloway · 1:25:18 I'm up for it. Kara Swisher · 1:25:19 We're gonna plague people across the country. Okay, Scott. That's the show. Be back Tuesday with more Pivot. This was highly enjoyable, very long show. John Cantor's so impressive. He's really impressive. I really am... I like public sermons that are like that. Alright. Scott, read us out. Scott Galloway · 1:25:37 Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertaud engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mia Silverio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Peach pie. Peach pie. [Ad break]